D7 ADI flash bug?

[Leo Terminello]

Hi The,

I feel better already, thanks. I was searching the web for solutions. Please tell me if this device at will do the trick, thanks in advance T.
Leo

http://199.105.70.56/product/52871/SUDMMAF/REG/654

Sunpak MX-1af minolta AF dedicated module

 

[Marko Björkroth]

I've spoken to the local Minolta rep about this issue and he said
that to use slave units for studio lighting the "work-around" is
as follows:

1. using the 5600HS (D) flash or earlier model flashes such as
5400HS, 5400Xi, 5200i, or 4000AF (some of the earlier models will
require the FS1100 hotshoe adapter) set the flash into MANUAL mode.
Next, manually select the lowest power setting available for the
particular flash you are using such as 1/32 power level or 1/64
power level.

You were told by Minolta rep that D7 works with older (no "D") flash units or were just discussing in general?

I'm afraid the only flash units that work with Dimage 7 are the two "D" units (3600 and 5600) and the two macro flash units. I've tested 5400 HS with D7 and it was really doing crazy things. Manual power setting did not work at all. The flash immediately switched to TTL/automatic mode when mounted on the D7.

But that's not all... When I took a picture, I got the same result as by pressing the test button on the flash. Depending on the flash setting, modelling flash on/off, it fired a full power burst or a rapid series of low power bursts (modelling flash). ADI/pre-flash setting on the camera had no effect.

However, aperture priority mode seemed to work OK. I was able to get a decent exposure by stopping down the lens - if the subject was not too close (f8 is a real problem here).
Marko

 

[The Man]

Marko

The 5400HS flash will not work on the D7 for normal flash use, the camera does require the newer 5600HS(D) or 3600HS(D) flashes because of the ADI flash system. if you use an older non-(D) flash the flash unit will only fire full power shoots if you attempt to use it in auto mode.

Based on the work-around I was given, if you put the camera and flash into manual mode and the flash also in its lowest power setting, it should only give a reduced output enough to trigger a slave unit (as it was explained to me). You will need to set aperature and shutter speed manually also. You mentioned trying it in Aperature priority mode and it seemed to work. That may, it just wasn't mentioned to me either way.

If it doesn't work i'm sorry but please don't shoot me as I'm just the messanger. I can't test it out myself as I sold my 5400HS flash to get a new 5600HS(D) when I got my Maxxum 7 last year.

I've spoken to the local Minolta rep about this issue and he said
that to use slave units for studio lighting the "work-around" is
as follows:

1. using the 5600HS (D) flash or earlier model flashes such as
5400HS, 5400Xi, 5200i, or 4000AF (some of the earlier models will
require the FS1100 hotshoe adapter) set the flash into MANUAL mode.
Next, manually select the lowest power setting available for the
particular flash you are using such as 1/32 power level or 1/64
power level.

You were told by Minolta rep that D7 works with older (no "D")
flash units or were just discussing in general?

I'm afraid the only flash units that work with Dimage 7 are the two
"D" units (3600 and 5600) and the two macro flash units. I've
tested 5400 HS with D7 and it was really doing crazy things. Manual
power setting did not work at all. The flash immediately switched
to TTL/automatic mode when mounted on the D7.

But that's not all... When I took a picture, I got the same result
as by pressing the test button on the flash. Depending on the flash
setting, modelling flash on/off, it fired a full power burst or a
rapid series of low power bursts (modelling flash). ADI/pre-flash
setting on the camera had no effect.

However, aperture priority mode seemed to work OK. I was able to
get a decent exposure by stopping down the lens - if the subject
was not too close (f8 is a real problem here).
Marko

 

[nickphoto]

Hi Mike,

If Minolta was woried about ambient light they would have been better off including the results of a meter reading rather than a pre-flash.

Back on the issue of whether the ADI preflash is really necessary,
something further occurred to me after re-reading the description
on the flash unit Web page. To give Minolta the benefit of the
doubt, it could be that using a preflash remains the most accurate
way they've found of comensating for high levels of ambient light.
I feel they deserve due credit for some excellent R&D in matters of
metering. I recall how good their pioneering Contrast Light Control
was several decades ago.
Mike

 

[Mike Fitzgerald]

Hi Mike,
If Minolta was woried about ambient light they would have been
better off including the results of a meter reading rather than a
pre-flash.

Certainly can't argue with that as a valid principle. But the logistics of pulling additional analog data out of a range of cameras might have been awkward. Does anyone know if the camera has any direct say in quenching the flash in TTL mode, or whether it just passes data to the flash for it to make the final decision on this? I'm used to an OM2n system in which the camera has total control in TTL mode.

I was really just wondering aloud. Maybe I was trying to earn my "Reformed" badge from Cynics Anonymous... )
MF

Back on the issue of whether the ADI preflash is really necessary,
something further occurred to me after re-reading the description
on the flash unit Web page. To give Minolta the benefit of the
doubt, it could be that using a preflash remains the most accurate
way they've found of comensating for high levels of ambient light.
I feel they deserve due credit for some excellent R&D in matters of
metering. I recall how good their pioneering Contrast Light Control
was several decades ago.
Mike

 

[Duane DeSieno]

Didn't have time to read all the posts so this may have been covered.

Manual p75. Camera automatically switches from ADI to Pre-FlashTTL when the subject is low contrast.

I tried it in low light with manual focus and still got 2 flashs. This may not be correct according to the manual.

Duane

Just got my D7. Nice camera. More later.
I think that I may have found a bug. Someone else with a camera can
check. The bug is that I get a multiple flash in both the ADI and
TTL pre flash mode. I thought that the ADI mode was supposed to
just emit a single flash and calculate the flash exposure based on
distance, etc. I have redeye mode off. I don't think that the ADI
mode works. Someone else want to try with their camera?
Bryan

 

[Bryan Biggers]

Hi Duane,

The problem was that I didn't understand how ADI was supposed to work on this camea, and there is some confusion about how it works in general. I though that it wasn't supposed to use a pre-flash, but the manual says that it does, I was wrong. Bryan

Manual p75. Camera automatically switches from ADI to Pre-FlashTTL
when the subject is low contrast.

I tried it in low light with manual focus and still got 2 flashs.
This may not be correct according to the manual.

Duane

Just got my D7. Nice camera. More later.
I think that I may have found a bug. Someone else with a camera can
check. The bug is that I get a multiple flash in both the ADI and
TTL pre flash mode. I thought that the ADI mode was supposed to
just emit a single flash and calculate the flash exposure based on
distance, etc. I have redeye mode off. I don't think that the ADI
mode works. Someone else want to try with their camera?
Bryan

 

[Peter Markum]

Marko> The 5400HS flash will not work on the D7 for normal flash use, the> camera does require the newer 5600HS(D) or 3600HS(D) flashes

That does not sound good, I've got the following reply from MinoltaUSA :

Dear Customer,

The FAQ you submitted on 6/4/01 has been resolved.

Question:

As a long time - satisfied - user of a Maxxum700si I have a 5400HS flash, could this flash unit also be used on the oncoming Dimage7, perhaps not with all the features the 5600HS has?

Answer:
The 5400HS flash unit will be compatible with the new Minolta DiMAGE 7.

We hope this answers your question.

--
Peter.

 

[jp52637]

The AF Illuminator of the 5600HS flash is not compatible with the D7 according to
http://www.dimage.minolta.com/
(look under: veratile flash imaging > > additional flash functions)
What a design flaw!
Or could this be a printing mistake?

I hope it is because otherwise this thing will be a real PITA for making flash photos in dark environments

(Damn and I just bought my D7 this weekend: I will post a new thread with my personal experiences soon)

 

[Mike Fitzgerald]

I'm not optimistic that it's just a typo. I think it's in the same basket as the missing wireless capability that already exists in both (D) flashes -- and for earlier (SLR) cameras yet! I suppose some git at Minolta will try and explain it away by pointing out the good low-light performance of the EVF.

I agree it's a huge PITA and ridiculous besides. I'm hoping these features have just fallen off the belt in the rush to market, and that they can be implemented via a firmware upgrade.

The AF Illuminator of the 5600HS flash is not compatible with the
D7 according to
http://www.dimage.minolta.com/
(look under: veratile flash imaging > > additional flash functions)
What a design flaw!
Or could this be a printing mistake?
I hope it is because otherwise this thing will be a real PITA for
making flash photos in dark environments
(Damn and I just bought my D7 this weekend: I will post a new
thread with my personal experiences soon)

 

[Marko Björkroth]

Based on the work-around I was given, if you put the camera and
flash into manual mode and the flash also in its lowest power
setting, it should only give a reduced output enough to trigger a
slave unit (as it was explained to me). You will need to set
aperature and shutter speed manually also. You mentioned trying it
in Aperature priority mode and it seemed to work.

Aperture priority mode worked, but the flash is too powerful. It has a guide number of 28 metres at 24 mm coverage. With the min. aperture of D7 the min. working distance will be 28/8 = 3.5 m.

That may, it just
wasn't mentioned to me either way.
If it doesn't work i'm sorry but please don't shoot me as I'm just
the messanger. I can't test it out myself as I sold my 5400HS flash
to get a new 5600HS(D) when I got my Maxxum 7 last year.

No, I dont' want to shoot you. I just wanted to warn others. I found out the problem when I was testing the camera in a shop, but I bought the camera anyway.

Marko

 

[David Martin]

The AF Illuminator of the 5600HS flash is not compatible with the
D7 according to
http://www.dimage.minolta.com/
(look under: veratile flash imaging > > additional flash functions)
What a design flaw!
Or could this be a printing mistake?
I hope it is because otherwise this thing will be a real PITA for
making flash photos in dark environments
(Damn and I just bought my D7 this weekend: I will post a new
thread with my personal experiences soon)

jp,
Is this just the 5600 or is the 3600 affected too?
Regards,
DaveMart