D60 noise test

[Ed Freedenburg]

I told you I'm new to the digital realm. I've had that camera for 6 days and that was maybe the third day I had it.

I forgot to cover the eyepiece, I believe thats what you see in second photo.

The exposures were finished processing at 4 and 5 minutes.

I waited about 5 minutes betweeen exposures. Felt the camera all over no warmth detected. Temperature about 65 in my house.

I didn't think they were good, I'm a rookie, nothing to compare to.

I'll make a new 5 minute exposure with the covered eyepiece.

I really enjoy taking timed exposures with my D60, I'm always testing it out around the house ,in dark rooms with 20-30 second exposures. I'll try a multiminute exposure inside and outside tonight.

I'm glad to know those pictures were not bad, thought I had a lemon.

P.S. Can I harm my camera taking these 5 minute exposures?

I get something similar on a 30 sec exposure on my Minolta d7 along
the top of the frame.

Still, it's very impressive performance.

Duane

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Bob Reim]

Bob,

I agree. The most pronounced (brightest) pixels are duplicated,
which is good news. Dark frame subtraction should work wonderfully.

How much time did you wait between the 4 min and the 5 min exposure?
I wonder how constant the 'hot pixels' are? If they are reasonably
constant, you could just use an archived dark frame of the
approximate exposure time for all but the most critical work.

Hi all! I am detecting a bit of unjustified over-enthusiasm in this
thread. I am pretty well versed with astrophotography using film,
an SBIG 237 astro CCD (yes, chilled) and the D30. To gauge my
experience level feel free to visit my website:
http://www.geocities.com/samirkharusi/index.html
Sorry in advance if bandwidth rationing shuts you off. Try again
later if you are a fellow astronerd. OK, here are my comments for
the cognoscenti. I tried the usual noise tests with and without the
D30's built-in dark frame substractor. It works. Perhaps the D60
just uses a built-in library for its subtracting, whatever. I have
not managed to find a way to process the D30 RAW file in a fashion
similar to processing an SBIG native format file. Ie you cannot
shoot a D30 at ISO 100, fiddle with "Background" and "Range" like
for normal SBIG CCD image files and end up with the same result as
when you shoot at ISO 1600. Astro CCDs do not have the silly
film-carryover-concept of ISO in their baggage! For high
sensitivity you actually have to use high ISO in a D30. Using ISO
1600 and a few seconds exposure at 25 deg C you always have noise
visible in the images. This noise can easily be processed out by
simply shifting the toe for your histogram, basically adjusting the
"Background". For low light astro images (ie not lunar/planetary)
you then need to stretch contrast, ie bring down the top end of
your histogram, ie restricting the "Range". This obviously will
immediately make any residual noise prominent. Keeping these
constraints in mind I found that the longest usable exposure at ISO
1600 in my D30 at 25 deg C to be 8 seconds. This is probably
roughly equivalent to 25 to 30 seconds on ISO 800 film (taking
film's reciprocity failure into account). This is enough to get a
reasonable image of the central part of M42 (Orion Nebula) but NOT
the outer reaches. By the way, on Daylight White Balance the
central part of M42 comes out bluish, not red as I expected... Four
seconds exposure at ISO 1600 is more pleasant to use. In an 8" SCT
at f10 you get down to Magnitude 11 stars. Honest. Check out my
photos of Vesta on my website. For a reason that I cannot as yet
comprehend, adding two 4 second exposures in a D30 results in a
better signal-to-noise ratio than a single 8-second exposure. Yes,
I am quite aware of taking multi-exposures in astro work, see my
image of M31 using the standard Canon EF 50/1.8 with the SBIG 237
using, if I recall correctly, 60 exposures.
In brief, noise in D30 images has to be talked about in the context
of temperature, ISO setting and exposure length. Noise that is
hardly visible in a normal night streetscape becomes HUGE when in
the context of the contrast stretching that is required in bringing
out a faint nebula. For these later uses I find the limit of a D30
is 8 seconds at ISO 1600 at 25 deg C. It is NOT suitable as a
nebula camera. Pity. It is excellent as a lunar/planetary camera,
my site has D30 samples of the Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and
comparing them to film and/or the SBIG 237. Have fun, but
unfortuantely not with the faint fuzzies ;-)

Thanks for the info on this. I too have been taking digital astro shot for some time now. I'm glad to see you have a cooled Sbig camera so you know what I am talking about. The noise level goes down by th square root of the number of shots you stack. That's why stacking can produce good shots. There is a yahoo group for people who use digital camera for astro imaging. You should take a look and you will see that we can do faint fuzzies with digitals cameras. The D60 has larger pixels than what most of us use so I would expect better results. I will also want to compair it with the D100 when it comes out (CMOS vs CCD). Most of us stack 60 second images to get the faint M objects. As for ISO settings, this in MHO is an advantage over cooled CCD cameras. The newer digital cameras have so many features that getting a good shot is easier than a cooled Astro camera. A cooled Astro CCD imager just has the imager facing the sky and thats it. Very simple but I perfer some added smarts on my camera. Thats why I looking for the best digital camera that will also work for Astro imaging. Maybe the D60 is not it but sooner or later someone will come out with one.

 

[Bob Reim]

Taking long exposures will not harm the camera in any way. All its doing is processing the light is sees. About the only thing it will do is use battery power over the entire time. If the camera shuts off its LCD during long exposures then your battery drain will not be a problem either. Shoot as long as you can. I would like to see some long exposures of a dark room.

I forgot to cover the eyepiece, I believe thats what you see in
second photo.

The exposures were finished processing at 4 and 5 minutes.

I waited about 5 minutes betweeen exposures. Felt the camera all
over no warmth detected. Temperature about 65 in my house.

I didn't think they were good, I'm a rookie, nothing to compare to.

I'll make a new 5 minute exposure with the covered eyepiece.

I really enjoy taking timed exposures with my D60, I'm always
testing it out around the house ,in dark rooms with 20-30 second
exposures. I'll try a multiminute exposure inside and outside
tonight.

I'm glad to know those pictures were not bad, thought I had a lemon.

P.S. Can I harm my camera taking these 5 minute exposures?

I get something similar on a 30 sec exposure on my Minolta d7 along
the top of the frame.

Still, it's very impressive performance.

Duane

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Here are two boring shots of the cabinet door in my powder room. Four minutes and five minutes respectively.

http://www.pbase.com/efreedenburg/d60_test_shots

I forgot to cover the eyepiece, I believe thats what you see in
second photo.

The exposures were finished processing at 4 and 5 minutes.

I waited about 5 minutes betweeen exposures. Felt the camera all
over no warmth detected. Temperature about 65 in my house.

I didn't think they were good, I'm a rookie, nothing to compare to.

I'll make a new 5 minute exposure with the covered eyepiece.

I really enjoy taking timed exposures with my D60, I'm always
testing it out around the house ,in dark rooms with 20-30 second
exposures. I'll try a multiminute exposure inside and outside
tonight.

I'm glad to know those pictures were not bad, thought I had a lemon.

P.S. Can I harm my camera taking these 5 minute exposures?

I get something similar on a 30 sec exposure on my Minolta d7 along
the top of the frame.

Still, it's very impressive performance.

Duane

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Hugo So]

I did the test with 120 seconds exposure, check the picture at 100% view and then 600% view in the zoombrowser. These are the only three spots I found. Please take a look and tell me whether they are noise or dead pixels. View under 600%, they appear in grey, red and green respectively.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Bob Reim]

WOW!!!!

That's very good for the length of time you did. Its got the be the best I have ever seen from any sensor at room temperature at that length of time. How much light was in the room when you took the picture (how well could you see?).

Do you mind if I down load your image to show to a few other people? I want to send it to one of the digital imaging groups on yahoo where we are very interested in this topic.

http://www.pbase.com/efreedenburg/d60_test_shots

I forgot to cover the eyepiece, I believe thats what you see in
second photo.

The exposures were finished processing at 4 and 5 minutes.

I waited about 5 minutes betweeen exposures. Felt the camera all
over no warmth detected. Temperature about 65 in my house.

I didn't think they were good, I'm a rookie, nothing to compare to.

I'll make a new 5 minute exposure with the covered eyepiece.

I really enjoy taking timed exposures with my D60, I'm always
testing it out around the house ,in dark rooms with 20-30 second
exposures. I'll try a multiminute exposure inside and outside
tonight.

I'm glad to know those pictures were not bad, thought I had a lemon.

P.S. Can I harm my camera taking these 5 minute exposures?

I get something similar on a 30 sec exposure on my Minolta d7 along
the top of the frame.

Still, it's very impressive performance.

Duane

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Bob Reim]

I assume you are just showing some of the hot spots in your overall image? If so then the results are very good! Those are hot pixels and are expected. The longer you do the intergration period the more you will see. Also if you use higher ISO numbers you will also get more of them. OK, I'm ready to see someone post a 5 minute exposure of the night sky.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[David SL]

Me too Jason,

I downloaded the largest image of the 4 minute exposure and could make out no more than 10 pixels that were brighter than perfect black. That's not to say they were glaring either, and my monitor is calibrated nicely. In fact looking over the image exactly 2 pixels showed themselves to be visibly "warmer" than anything else. To really put it to the test I opened the image in photoshop and leveled it drastically to see where all the warm pixels were really hiding, the picture didn't change much even with a -1.40 levels adjustement though more warm pixels could be seen. However, if this were a standard night shot the warm pixels would have easily blended in to whatever was being imaged (assuming its not a perfectly black subject as this lens cap test).

In short, to complain about this sort of performance at a 4 minute (closed cap) exposure is absolutely ludicrous.

Ed's D60 is providing a level of noise free images I've never seen anywhere. (Excepting for in Phil's remarkable sample and probably other D60's) I guess if I did astro photography with crygenically cooled sensors then I would be able to brag of better performance but I don't. Ed, I suggest you check your monitor or something, you obviously have it calibrated to be very very bright and it shows what appears on a properly calibrated monitor to be essentially completely black.

Regards,

Dsl

Ed,

When I clicked on your link, I got two images that looked pretty
much like pure black on my monitor. Of course, it may be that my
monitor isn't completely calibrated, but I expect to still see
some noise if it's as bad as you say.

I think on the D30, a four minute exposure would've given you an
almost white screen that looks more like TV static.

When you go to the page and click on a thumbnail, go to the text at
the bottom of the picture and click on "Original"

A very LARGE image will download. Scroll around the image and you
can see the bad pixels. 99.9999% (most of them) are solid black.
(as they should be) But if you look carefully, you'll see small
specks.. Some larger, some smaller and different colors.

This is called "Noise" because they should all be black with the
lens cap on no matter how long you take the picture. (Theoretically)

Murph

 

[Bob Reim]

If you look at your dark frame and then your cabnet image for the 5 minute exposure you can see the same hot pixels. Thats very good and repeatable. You should be able to do a simple dark frame subtraction to clean it up. However your cabnet image is so good I would not even bother for the small number of hot pixels you have. I'm very impressed.

Lets see a shot of the night sky if you get a chance (make sure the moon is not out or it might just wash out you image completly.) Either way it would still be interesting to see.

If you are able to image the Milkyway with that camera that would be unbelaveable. There would be a astronomers interested in this camera.

http://www.pbase.com/efreedenburg/d60_test_shots

I forgot to cover the eyepiece, I believe thats what you see in
second photo.

The exposures were finished processing at 4 and 5 minutes.

I waited about 5 minutes betweeen exposures. Felt the camera all
over no warmth detected. Temperature about 65 in my house.

I didn't think they were good, I'm a rookie, nothing to compare to.

I'll make a new 5 minute exposure with the covered eyepiece.

I really enjoy taking timed exposures with my D60, I'm always
testing it out around the house ,in dark rooms with 20-30 second
exposures. I'll try a multiminute exposure inside and outside
tonight.

I'm glad to know those pictures were not bad, thought I had a lemon.

P.S. Can I harm my camera taking these 5 minute exposures?

I get something similar on a 30 sec exposure on my Minolta d7 along
the top of the frame.

Still, it's very impressive performance.

Duane

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[no name 3]

Murphy,

That's exactly what I did, I took a look at the original. And as I said in my post, for a four minute exposure, this is an awesome result.

Have you tried to do a four minute exposure in the same conditions on a D30? The differences are like night and day between D30 and D60 results.

And I'd like to see a digital SLR that can take a four minute exposure like this and produce a cleaner image.

jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net

When you go to the page and click on a thumbnail, go to the text at
the bottom of the picture and click on "Original"

A very LARGE image will download. Scroll around the image and you
can see the bad pixels. 99.9999% (most of them) are solid black.
(as they should be) But if you look carefully, you'll see small
specks.. Some larger, some smaller and different colors.

This is called "Noise" because they should all be black with the
lens cap on no matter how long you take the picture. (Theoretically)

Murph

 

[Mark Lord]

Question: Does the D60 take a second exposure that is as long as
the first for the noise reduction?

No, it does not. Noise reduction is done pretty much in "real-time".

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Bob,

I will take the sky shot when I don't have clouds overhead. About my first complaint, remember I'm new to this and did not know what to expect. I'm glad you all say this is great, I was worried about my camera, learning everyday.

If you want to download those pictures they're yours for the taking.

Got to go, I hear the UPS truck with my 70-200 f2.8 L IS and a used 300 f4

P.S I think I shoot the western sky for Milky Way, yes or no. No that was for the current planet lineup. Which way for Milky Way and when, I'm north of Baltimore MD.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Ted B.47613]

The corners of your image show light leakage, either from the lens cap or from the eyepiece. This invalidates your test, unfortunately.

I DO see your white specs, though. Perhaps hot/stuck pixels?

Ed,

When I clicked on your link, I got two images that looked pretty
much like pure black on my monitor. Of course, it may be that my
monitor isn't completely calibrated, but I expect to still see
some noise if it's as bad as you say.

I think on the D30, a four minute exposure would've given you an
almost white screen that looks more like TV static.

When you go to the page and click on a thumbnail, go to the text at
the bottom of the picture and click on "Original"

A very LARGE image will download. Scroll around the image and you
can see the bad pixels. 99.9999% (most of them) are solid black.
(as they should be) But if you look carefully, you'll see small
specks.. Some larger, some smaller and different colors.

This is called "Noise" because they should all be black with the
lens cap on no matter how long you take the picture. (Theoretically)

Murph

 

[Bob Reim]

The Milkyway is kind of hard to see this time of the year or if you wait until 1:00 in the morning you may start to see some of the brighter parts of it. I will have to run my astronomy program to see when the best time for viewing and what direction its at. For the most part its streight up and runs kind of north to south. It spins with a arc just like the planets do if you were to track a planet though the night.

So how dark was your room when you took that shot of the cabnets?

I will take the sky shot when I don't have clouds overhead. About
my first complaint, remember I'm new to this and did not know what
to expect. I'm glad you all say this is great, I was worried about
my camera, learning everyday.

If you want to download those pictures they're yours for the taking.

Got to go, I hear the UPS truck with my 70-200 f2.8 L IS and a used
300 f4

P.S I think I shoot the western sky for Milky Way, yes or no. No
that was for the current planet lineup. Which way for Milky Way and
when, I'm north of Baltimore MD.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Bob,

The room was lit by a low watt night light 10 feet away. I can make out the doors and the opening between them but that is all. Can't tell they are wood or not, or is that knot Don't forget I was shooting at f5.6. I also shot one at 8 minutes, by my eye its pretty bad, want to see it.

Glad I could help. Tuesday night looks like it could be clear. I'll run up to my cousins farm to get away from our local light pollution. I really enjoy night shots anyway.

So how dark was your room when you took that shot of the cabnets?

I will take the sky shot when I don't have clouds overhead. About
my first complaint, remember I'm new to this and did not know what
to expect. I'm glad you all say this is great, I was worried about
my camera, learning everyday.

If you want to download those pictures they're yours for the taking.

Got to go, I hear the UPS truck with my 70-200 f2.8 L IS and a used
300 f4

P.S I think I shoot the western sky for Milky Way, yes or no. No
that was for the current planet lineup. Which way for Milky Way and
when, I'm north of Baltimore MD.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Bob Reim]

No need to see the 8 minute shot. Its probably a little over exposed since your 5 minute shot is nice and bright. Have you ever just taken a shot of your backyard at night to see how it lights up? It could be like night vision (not real time of course). I know my current camera with a 64 second exposure can not get a image at all of a dark yard. It also would be interesting to see the results. If the camera can pick up an image that you cannot see with your own eyes then the camera should work good for astro imaging.

The room was lit by a low watt night light 10 feet away. I can make
out the doors and the opening between them but that is all. Can't
tell they are wood or not, or is that knot Don't forget I was
shooting at f5.6. I also shot one at 8 minutes, by my eye its
pretty bad, want to see it.

Glad I could help. Tuesday night looks like it could be clear. I'll
run up to my cousins farm to get away from our local light
pollution. I really enjoy night shots anyway.

So how dark was your room when you took that shot of the cabnets?

I will take the sky shot when I don't have clouds overhead. About
my first complaint, remember I'm new to this and did not know what
to expect. I'm glad you all say this is great, I was worried about
my camera, learning everyday.

If you want to download those pictures they're yours for the taking.

Got to go, I hear the UPS truck with my 70-200 f2.8 L IS and a used
300 f4

P.S I think I shoot the western sky for Milky Way, yes or no. No
that was for the current planet lineup. Which way for Milky Way and
when, I'm north of Baltimore MD.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Bob,

Did you see Phil's 4 min + shot with the D60. He says it was a balcony that he could not see at all. It's here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneosd60/page13.asp

The room was lit by a low watt night light 10 feet away. I can make
out the doors and the opening between them but that is all. Can't
tell they are wood or not, or is that knot Don't forget I was
shooting at f5.6. I also shot one at 8 minutes, by my eye its
pretty bad, want to see it.

Glad I could help. Tuesday night looks like it could be clear. I'll
run up to my cousins farm to get away from our local light
pollution. I really enjoy night shots anyway.

So how dark was your room when you took that shot of the cabnets?

I will take the sky shot when I don't have clouds overhead. About
my first complaint, remember I'm new to this and did not know what
to expect. I'm glad you all say this is great, I was worried about
my camera, learning everyday.

If you want to download those pictures they're yours for the taking.

Got to go, I hear the UPS truck with my 70-200 f2.8 L IS and a used
300 f4

P.S I think I shoot the western sky for Milky Way, yes or no. No
that was for the current planet lineup. Which way for Milky Way and
when, I'm north of Baltimore MD.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Bob Reim]

Yea my brother sent me that link and thats how I got started in all of this. My brother has this camera on order but it may be several weeks before he gets it. I saw you 8 minute shot. Its not as bright but then I see you had the apature set to F11. You can see more hot pixels but still the image is very good. An 8 minute exposure with the imager not saturating is un head of.

Did you see Phil's 4 min + shot with the D60. He says it was a
balcony that he could not see at all. It's here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneosd60/page13.asp

The room was lit by a low watt night light 10 feet away. I can make
out the doors and the opening between them but that is all. Can't
tell they are wood or not, or is that knot Don't forget I was
shooting at f5.6. I also shot one at 8 minutes, by my eye its
pretty bad, want to see it.

Glad I could help. Tuesday night looks like it could be clear. I'll
run up to my cousins farm to get away from our local light
pollution. I really enjoy night shots anyway.

So how dark was your room when you took that shot of the cabnets?

I will take the sky shot when I don't have clouds overhead. About
my first complaint, remember I'm new to this and did not know what
to expect. I'm glad you all say this is great, I was worried about
my camera, learning everyday.

If you want to download those pictures they're yours for the taking.

Got to go, I hear the UPS truck with my 70-200 f2.8 L IS and a used
300 f4

P.S I think I shoot the western sky for Milky Way, yes or no. No
that was for the current planet lineup. Which way for Milky Way and
when, I'm north of Baltimore MD.

http://www.pbase.com/hugoso/inbox

Thanks

Since I did not get any replies to this last post I will try it again.

I would like to see some one do some noise testing of this camera
at long exposures. This will give an indication of how good the
imager is (for low noise). The test is simple

Leave your lens cap on so you are taking a shot of darkness (this
is called a dark frame). Set your ISO speed at the slowest level
and take a shot in bulb mode. You can have your noise reduction on
or off (if the camera has that option) so you can see the
difference. Take a shot of several minutes or longer. The more
noise the imager has the more 'snow' the final image will have in
it. You can also do this at different ISO levels to see how the
camera does. At high ISO values it should get noisey very quickly.
I am interested to see the results of this test. It would also be
interesting how other D60 will compaire at the same settings. Also
please note that image noise doubles for every 8 degree C rise in
temperature so it would be nice to know about what temp the shot
was taken.

Image noise is why cameras for Astro imaging are cooled to -30 deg
C below room temp. This way they can get exposures over several
hours long. It would be interesting to see how the D60 does.

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Bob,

As I mentioned I am a digital neophyte 4 days experience. Having no other digital camera I was concerned to see any abnormal pixels on those shots.

Now I know better and thank you guys for correcting me. I love this camera and have learned alot taking alot of pictures and seeing the results in a couple minutes.

I'll take some sky shots as soon as it's clear.

Thanks

Yea my brother sent me that link and thats how I got started in all
of this. My brother has this camera on order but it may be several
weeks before he gets it. I saw you 8 minute shot. Its not as
bright but then I see you had the apature set to F11. You can see
more hot pixels but still the image is very good. An 8 minute
exposure with the imager not saturating is un head of.

...

 

[Skyline]

I have just bought a d60, and one thing which bothers me is one bright white (stuck) pixel on the upper left side of the frame. This occurs at ISO 100 and above, at a speed of greater than .5 sec. on increasing ISO the intensity icreases. The position of this pixel is constant, so I was wondering how i could do dark frame subtraction. I have no idea on how to apply this procedure.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Best regards
Skyline

Bob,

I agree. The most pronounced (brightest) pixels are duplicated,
which is good news. Dark frame subtraction should work wonderfully.

How much time did you wait between the 4 min and the 5 min exposure?
I wonder how constant the 'hot pixels' are? If they are reasonably
constant, you could just use an archived dark frame of the
approximate exposure time for all but the most critical work.

Regards,

Mark K.