D60, D80, D90 - image quality?

[Sunshine_boy]

I am wondering why you feel that the D60 AF system is so bad. Can you
please explain why you don't like it? I find it very good and its
metering is excellent too. I am buffled at your opinion of it...

3 AF points is not exactly a lot... very unflexible. I mean, compared
to the D300, the D60's AF system really is the bare bones minimum.

Hi Basil,

I'd like to hear/learn what advantages you get with 9 AF points other than the obvious when you use a tripod. This is because 99.9% of the times I use the central spot for prefocusing. This is a genuine question, I am not just arguing...

Where I'd argue is the terminology you used. By saying that the D60 AF system is cr@p, implies that it cannot focus properly which it's the opposite to what the cam does. Focuses fast and very accurately but yes, it only has 3 AF points...

As I do not use the multiple AF points, I look forward to your reply on my first point. I may learn something I didn't know... Thanks

--
Regards

Sunshine (Fuji F30, F31, S6500, OLY C4000Z, Canon EOS1000, Nikon D60+2 kit lenses)

 

[BasilG]

I am wondering why you feel that the D60 AF system is so bad. Can you
please explain why you don't like it? I find it very good and its
metering is excellent too. I am buffled at your opinion of it...

3 AF points is not exactly a lot... very unflexible. I mean, compared
to the D300, the D60's AF system really is the bare bones minimum.

Hi Basil,
I'd like to hear/learn what advantages you get with 9 AF points other
than the obvious when you use a tripod. This is because 99.9% of the
times I use the central spot for prefocusing. This is a genuine
question, I am not just arguing...

For dynamic AF on moving targets, 9 AF points is a significant improvement over 3 AF points (and 51 points is a whole different league). This is particularly useful for sports/action. Another application where I like having off-center AF points is when I use fast lenses (large apertures), so I don't need to recompose after focusing (e.g. for portraits), since the recomposing step may throw the desired point of focus OOF pretty quickly when you're at f/2.8 or wider. The former may not be all that important for that trip (unless there are some nice wildlife opportunities), while the latter is more of an issue (even though I know that some people even prefer using MF for that kind of photographs - well, I don't)...

Yes, you're right, the D60's AF system is not cr@p, but it does have some limitations, which I'm not sure whether I want to accept. I don't want to be on the trip, thinking "sh!t, the D300 could have focused on that, and now I missed the shot...".

BG

 

[Stanislav Stoklas]

Absolutely all right, D 60 is technologically near D 300
--
Stan
--------------
http://ssnet.cz/photo.html

 

[TFergus]

Wow,
Are people anal here or what?
Talk about over analyzing something that is painfully simple!

Firstly, there are about a hundred threads regarding the image
quality of these cameras.

Secondly, The answers will be totally subjective. Based on personal
preferences and sample variations.
You will get about a thousand different responses, none of which will
be conclusive.

If you cant make a simple decision like this for yourself, then id
say your issues go far deeper then the insignificant differences in
image quality between these cameras.

Do you have similar issues every morning with what clothes to wear?

If you're going to complain about this thread I assume you miss the ones asking:

"which strap should I use?"
or
"which bag should I buy?"
or
"what color shoes should I wear when taking pictures?"

There are plenty of those to keep you busy.

Still... I agree with you.

 

[BasilG]

If you're going to complain about this thread I assume you miss the
ones asking:

"which strap should I use?"
or
"which bag should I buy?"
or
"what color shoes should I wear when taking pictures?"

There are plenty of those to keep you busy.

Still... I agree with you.

Then, please, don't read the thread. Nobody forces you to do so. The title was pretty clear about the contents. Additionally, if spending $500 or more for a camera is not worth a couple of deep thoughts for you, and ranks along there with straps and shoe color, then, well, I'd like to be in your financial situation where that kind of money is peanuts.

I was looking for direct comparisons, and experience of people that have used several of the cameras mentioned (and if somebody feels like that warrants a personal attack, so be it). I've explained a couple of things on this forum like a hundred times to newbies, (mostly) without acting like a jackass. I was hoping for some of this effort to be paid back. Luckily, I got a couple of helpful replies along with the moronic ones...

BG

 

[BasilG]

Has anybody experienced amp glow with the D90? Seems to be one of the problems that plagued the D80 (along with hot pixels...).

BG

 

[NikonDX]

Sounds like you want to take the D300 and a Dxx body as a backup. Not exactly light, no?

Right now the D80 is a quality camera and gives you more bang for the buck. Although the D90 is up to par with the D300 in picture quality.
--
NikonDX

 

[Arree]

For dynamic AF on moving targets, 9 AF points is a significant
improvement over 3 AF points (and 51 points is a whole different
league). This is particularly useful for sports/action. Another
application where I like having off-center AF points is when I use
fast lenses (large apertures), so I don't need to recompose after
focusing (e.g. for portraits), since the recomposing step may throw
the desired point of focus OOF pretty quickly when you're at f/2.8 or
wider. The former may not be all that important for that trip (unless
there are some nice wildlife opportunities), while the latter is more
of an issue (even though I know that some people even prefer using MF
for that kind of photographs - well, I don't)...

Basil,

There ARE some nice wildlife opportunities !

Day before I left BKK this summer I saw 2 very old gigantic elephants walking: their height almost 4 meters !
I really was impressed (did not had a camera at the time).
Bangkok has a very nice zoo and the Chengmai zoo is even better.
I remember an aviary which is so big they allow you to go inside.
This pic I shoot in Lumpini park bangkok.
Lizzards very hard to shoot cause their affraid.
Thai people like to eat them.



Regards,

Arree

Like to see some pic's ?
http://picasaweb.google.nl/Arretje56/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13935871@N04/

 

[walmark]

Let me give you my opinion, and take it for what it is:

It doesn't matter what body you use, in terms of image quality.

This is what I believe. The glass is what determines the image quality, not the body.

That said, I don't believe all bodies are equal (otherwise there would be no difference in price). Camera bodies are tools, and their features allow you to do the work faster and easier, or make them more "automated". However, if you know how to use a camera, and have enough time, you'll have great pictures. Put a good lens on a camera, set it right, take a picture, and you'll be hard pressed to see any difference be that D40, D80, D300, D100, or whatever. Look at Morris and his D70 pictures. No problems.

What you do pay for is the ease of use of your tool. Adjusting some settings on the run on D300 will take fraction of time it would on D40. Chances are you'll miss the shot with D40. Shooting quick without tripod (or sports) is definitely going to benefit from high ISO performance (but if you have tripod and subject is not running anywhere, any camera will do in low light!). If you get carried away and drop your D3, there is high chance you can pick it up and keep shooting - not so much with D80. These are the differences; this is what you pay for. You get better tool to do the same job. Think of power drills (if you're familiar with them) - why would you pay $180 for 18V DeWalt if you can get 12V B&D for $30? They will do the same, right? But B&D will be exhausted after couple drills, while DeWalt will keep going and going, no matter how much you use it or how often you drop it. Quality of holes will be the same. Of course if you put equally good drill bits on them ;-)

Camera body is a tool, and IQ with regard to body depends only on the operator's ability to use that tool. shrinkie1964 has a comment where he says "Ansel Adams never had to post a gear list". How many focus points do you think he had?

Marcin
--

 

[Grig]

The D90 sounded like the perfect ticket, but it seems that the IQ is not
up to snuff with the D300, and not really better than that of the 10
MP D80 (I couldn't see much of a difference in the dpreview crops
anyway).

What are you talking about? I find that IQ is VERY good on D90, even compared to my D3/D700 (when shooting below ISO1600) combo that I use professionally... I sold D300 for D90 because of weight and size...

--
Real photography - it's just the ability to see what was already created by God!
http://www.pbase.com/grig

 

[ericBlair]

Don't know how old you are, but I'm 58, and weight and size matter!!!

Oh, I'm young. I can carry the weight. It's more about the volume,
actually.

BG

regrding heft, dep. on when you are going, be prepared for major heat and humidity. i went to bangkok in the spring and found it incredibly draining altho the north of the country, in the mountains (changmai), was much more bearable.

--
my web albums:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/theabsurdman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74185915@N00/

 

[BasilG]

Sounds like you want to take the D300 and a Dxx body as a backup. Not
exactly light, no?

Nope, that's not what I want to do. I'll have a single body only (and my girlfriend will also have one, but this discussion is only about "my" body).

BG

 

[BasilG]

Camera body is a tool, and IQ with regard to body depends only on the
operator's ability to use that tool.

This depends a lot on what you shoot. Often, technique is more important than the body, or even the lenses. But when you need fast AF, you need fast AF, and when you need high ISO, you need high ISO. Of course, you don't need high ISO to shoot landscapes or cityscapes after sunset (tripod - yes, I'll bring one), but you do need it to shoot moving subjects in dark places. The same with megapixel count - yes, you don't need 24 MP for a small print, but if you make a large poster, it's nice to have 12 MP instead of 6 MP, and having even more would be even nicer...

shrinkie1964 has a comment where
he says "Ansel Adams never had to post a gear list". How many focus
points do you think he had?

How often did Ansel Adams shoot indoor sports? Your argument is valid, but it's an argument about landscape photography. I've never said I need 51 AF points for landscape photography.

BG

 

[garyking]

Has anybody experienced amp glow with the D90? Seems to be one of the
problems that plagued the D80 (along with hot pixels...).

Until someone else chimes in on amp glow, let me give this bit.

There was a thread about 3 weeks ago on this and the D90 did very well if not perfect all the way up to a 30 min exposure. Obviously the longer exposures had NR on. Here it is:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=29648145

gk
--
'I'm not as smart today as I will be tomorrow.'

 

[TFergus]

If you're going to complain about this thread I assume you miss the
ones asking:

"which strap should I use?"
or
"which bag should I buy?"
or
"what color shoes should I wear when taking pictures?"

There are plenty of those to keep you busy.

Still... I agree with you.

Then, please, don't read the thread. Nobody forces you to do so. The
title was pretty clear about the contents.

You're whining to the wrong person. I was responding to this:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=29830725

He's the one that "attacked" you as you call it.

Additionally, if spending
$500 or more for a camera is not worth a couple of deep thoughts for
you, and ranks along there with straps and shoe color, then, well,
I'd like to be in your financial situation where that kind of money
is peanuts.

Well shoes can be pretty expensive... but I was pointing out to the other poster (see above) that there were better threads for him to complain about. Very obvious had actually you read the posts.

In fact I voiced my opinion of your dilemma earlier in the thread.
yw.

 

[BasilG]

If you're going to complain about this thread I assume you miss the
ones asking:

"which strap should I use?"
or
"which bag should I buy?"
or
"what color shoes should I wear when taking pictures?"

There are plenty of those to keep you busy.

Still... I agree with you.

Then, please, don't read the thread. Nobody forces you to do so. The
title was pretty clear about the contents.

You're whining to the wrong person. I was responding to this:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=29830725

He's the one that "attacked" you as you call it.

Additionally, if spending
$500 or more for a camera is not worth a couple of deep thoughts for
you, and ranks along there with straps and shoe color, then, well,
I'd like to be in your financial situation where that kind of money
is peanuts.

Well shoes can be pretty expensive... but I was pointing out to the
other poster (see above) that there were better threads for him to
complain about. Very obvious had actually you read the posts.

In fact I voiced my opinion of your dilemma earlier in the thread.

I quote you:

Still... I agree with you.

You agree with him (and he's the one who attacked me personally). Doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation.

BG

 

[BasilG]

Has anybody experienced amp glow with the D90? Seems to be one of the
problems that plagued the D80 (along with hot pixels...).

Until someone else chimes in on amp glow, let me give this bit.
There was a thread about 3 weeks ago on this and the D90 did very
well if not perfect all the way up to a 30 min exposure. Obviously
the longer exposures had NR on. Here it is:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=29648145

Thanks a bunch.

BG

 

[Stanislav Stoklas]

Predrag bubalo
I Agree absolutely with you !!!
--
Stan
--------------
http://ssnet.cz/photo.html

 

[georgeorwell]

D90: Expensive at the moment (because it's new), while (apparently)
not delivering much more than the D80 at low ISO.

what? D90 for many people has also a better Iso performance then D300
, and you think its worst then D80???

Did you read what I wrote? LOW ISO.

HI Sorry i havent wrote LOW ISO, yes at low iso images are comparable,but are the same of D40x D60 or another entry level camera

at high iso D90 is relly better then D80 D60 D40x (that for what i know share the same sensor)

btw i have a D90 and compared with D40x D80 D300, to me it dont look images are soft , but belive me D90 sensor is another step vs D80 D60

 

[TFergus]

If you're going to complain about this thread I assume you miss the
ones asking:

"which strap should I use?"
or
"which bag should I buy?"
or
"what color shoes should I wear when taking pictures?"

There are plenty of those to keep you busy.

Still... I agree with you.

Then, please, don't read the thread. Nobody forces you to do so. The
title was pretty clear about the contents.

You're whining to the wrong person. I was responding to this:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=29830725

He's the one that "attacked" you as you call it.

Additionally, if spending
$500 or more for a camera is not worth a couple of deep thoughts for
you, and ranks along there with straps and shoe color, then, well,
I'd like to be in your financial situation where that kind of money
is peanuts.

Well shoes can be pretty expensive... but I was pointing out to the
other poster (see above) that there were better threads for him to
complain about. Very obvious had actually you read the posts.

In fact I voiced my opinion of your dilemma earlier in the thread.

I quote you:

Still... I agree with you.

You agree with him (and he's the one who attacked me personally).

Yea.. funny that... yet it's me that you decide to try and take on

Doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation.

I agree.
His words....

"Firstly, there are about a hundred threads regarding the image quality of these cameras".

"Secondly, The answers will be totally subjective. Based on personal preferences and sample variations".

"You will get about a thousand different responses, none of which will be conclusive".

Yes.. I agree with him.... 1,000%

I assume you don't.

Well... he's absolutely correct.