D500 setup question

[DavidWright2010]

For many years I've used a D7200/Sigma 150-60mm lens for bird pix. For perched birds, it worked very well; BIF, not so much. Recently I found a 'like new' D500 at MPB for a decent price.

I've been studying the manual, and also found a Nikon manual "D500 Professional Setting Guide, sports AF edition", which I thought might be helpful in choosing the correct settings for BIF. However I see this on page 6:





OK. But why does the 3D tracking selection spell out "3D' in focus points? And what subjects are considered?

The next page reads:



Was a column on the left omitted? This doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I'm guessing that for BIF, you want 3D tracking.

And later on, page 18, the discussion about Focus tracking with lock-on, for BIF you want blocked AF response delayed, and the Subject Motion steady for large birds (eagles) and erratic for birds like swallows?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David

 

[Wahrsager]

For many years I've used a D7200/Sigma 150-60mm lens for bird pix. For perched birds, it worked very well; BIF, not so much. Recently I found a 'like new' D500 at MPB for a decent price.

I've been studying the manual, and also found a Nikon manual "D500 Professional Setting Guide, sports AF edition", which I thought might be helpful in choosing the correct settings for BIF. However I see this on page 6:



OK. But why does the 3D tracking selection spell out "3D' in focus points? And what subjects are considered?

It's spelled-out to show what displays when the mode is selected in the viewfinder. (Changes to a single indicator after that).

The next page reads:



Was a column on the left omitted? This doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I'm guessing that for BIF, you want 3D tracking.

And later on, page 18, the discussion about Focus tracking with lock-on, for BIF you want blocked AF response delayed, and the Subject Motion steady for large birds (eagles) and erratic for birds like swallows?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David

For subjects that the camera considers, my understanding was that it doesn't recognize subjects, it recognizes color, maybe even shapes, in fact there is a caveat on page 105 of the reference guide that hints at that.



For my usage, I more or less leave D500 on dynamic-25 with the lock settings on default. I just use focus/recompose and back-button AF-only and sometimes move the focus array around with the sub/multi-selector. Of course your usage might be different. I find that the most reliable automated capture/tracking of birds heads/eyes comes with Z 9/8 and even that is a challenge in many conditions.

Have you seen this video from Steve Perry on Nikon AF modes? There's a section toward the end on 3-D:

 

[DavidWright2010]

For subjects that the camera considers, my understanding was that it doesn't recognize subjects, it recognizes color, maybe even shapes, in fact there is a caveat on page 105 of the reference guide that hints at that.



For my usage, I more or less leave D500 on dynamic-25 with the lock settings on default. I just use focus/recompose and back-button AF-only and sometimes move the focus array around with the sub/multi-selector. Of course your usage might be different. I find that the most reliable automated capture/tracking of birds heads/eyes comes with Z 9/8 and even that is a challenge in many conditions.

Have you seen this video from Steve Perry on Nikon AF modes? There's a section toward the end on 3-D:

Thanks, I'll look at that.

David

 

[fotowbert]

For many years I've used a D7200/Sigma 150-60mm lens for bird pix. For perched birds, it worked very well; BIF, not so much. Recently I found a 'like new' D500 at MPB for a decent price.

I've been studying the manual, and also found a Nikon manual "D500 Professional Setting Guide, sports AF edition", which I thought might be helpful in choosing the correct settings for BIF. However I see this on page 6:



OK. But why does the 3D tracking selection spell out "3D' in focus points?

That is to help you know which AF Area mode you have dialed to while your eye is at the viewfinder. Note the column is labeled "Selection". Like Wahrsager said it reverts back to a single AF point box once you have selected it as shown in the column labeled "Shooting".

And what subjects are considered?

Unlike the subject detection of mirrorless cameras, with the D500 DSLR the subject choice is up to you as the camera operator. You perform the subject detection by placing the primary AF point over your intended subject (or portion thereof) before engaging AF.

While AF is engaged the D500 3D-tracking AF Area mode will try to "track" that subject as it moves to another part of the image frame by assigning the primary focus point duties to another AF point. Nikon says tracking relies on color information and that likely comes from the 180K pixel RGB exposure metering sensor. I suspect this is combined with the instantaneous distance information from the other AF sensors to determine where the subject has moved to. (The Auto-area AF Area mode also has this tracking ability)

For the remaining 5 AF Area modes tracking is the responsibility of the camera operator. You need to move the camera to keep the active AF point on the intended subject.

The next page reads:



Was a column on the left omitted? This doesn't make any sense.

These 5 items correspond to the 5 AF Area mode types when you lump the 3 dynamic ones together.

Anyway, I'm guessing that for BIF, you want 3D tracking.

Although I don't shoot BIF, I did an extensive review of posts about an AF issue with the D500 that surfaced shortly after the D500/D5 were released. AF Areas modes of 25 point-dynamic, 3D-tracking, and Group were all being tried. I suggest you try them all as your success rate will depend on how successful you are at keeping your primary AF point on your intended subject.

And later on, page 18, the discussion about Focus tracking with lock-on, for BIF you want blocked AF response delayed, and the Subject Motion steady for large birds (eagles) and erratic for birds like swallows?

You are referring to the a3 Custom Function setting. Changing that delay setting has less effect on the 152 AF point AF module of the D500 than it did on the previous 51 AF point module cameras. Here is a link to Steve Perry's summary of the issue posted on fredmiranda.com.

Thanks in advance for any help.

David

Welcome to the D500 club. After many years with lesser Nikon DX DSLRs I decided to add the D500 to my collection last year.

• John

--
"[If you don't sweat the details] the magic doesn't work." Brooks, F. P., The Mythical Man-Month, Addison-Wesley, 1975, page 8.

 

[DavidWright2010]

For many years I've used a D7200/Sigma 150-60mm lens for bird pix. For perched birds, it worked very well; BIF, not so much. Recently I found a 'like new' D500 at MPB for a decent price.

I've been studying the manual, and also found a Nikon manual "D500 Professional Setting Guide, sports AF edition", which I thought might be helpful in choosing the correct settings for BIF. However I see this on page 6:



OK. But why does the 3D tracking selection spell out "3D' in focus points?

That is to help you know which AF Area mode you have dialed to while your eye is at the viewfinder. Note the column is labeled "Selection". Like Wahrsager said it reverts back to a single AF point box once you have selected it as shown in the column labeled "Shooting".

And what subjects are considered?

Unlike the subject detection of mirrorless cameras, with the D500 DSLR the subject choice is up to you as the camera operator. You perform the subject detection by placing the primary AF point over your intended subject (or portion thereof) before engaging AF.

While AF is engaged the D500 3D-tracking AF Area mode will try to "track" that subject as it moves to another part of the image frame by assigning the primary focus point duties to another AF point. Nikon says tracking relies on color information and that likely comes from the 180K pixel RGB exposure metering sensor. I suspect this is combined with the instantaneous distance information from the other AF sensors to determine where the subject has moved to. (The Auto-area AF Area mode also has this tracking ability)

For the remaining 5 AF Area modes tracking is the responsibility of the camera operator. You need to move the camera to keep the active AF point on the intended subject.

The next page reads:



Was a column on the left omitted? This doesn't make any sense.

These 5 items correspond to the 5 AF Area mode types when you lump the 3 dynamic ones together.

That makes sense!

Anyway, I'm guessing that for BIF, you want 3D tracking.

Although I don't shoot BIF, I did an extensive review of posts about an AF issue with the D500 that surfaced shortly after the D500/D5 were released. AF Areas modes of 25 point-dynamic, 3D-tracking, and Group were all being tried. I suggest you try them all as your success rate will depend on how successful you are at keeping your primary AF point on your intended subject.

Yes, I will soon go out and try various modes. But the D500 is sufficiently different from the D7200 that I need to study the manual more.

And later on, page 18, the discussion about Focus tracking with lock-on, for BIF you want blocked AF response delayed, and the Subject Motion steady for large birds (eagles) and erratic for birds like swallows?

You are referring to the a3 Custom Function setting. Changing that delay setting has less effect on the 152 AF point AF module of the D500 than it did on the previous 51 AF point module cameras. Here is a link to Steve Perry's summary of the issue posted on fredmiranda.com.

Thanks.

Thanks in advance for any help.

David

Welcome to the D500 club. After many years with lesser Nikon DX DSLRs I decided to add the D500 to my collection last year.

• John

 

[Blufftonian]

I pretty much only shoot birds with my D500. For most birds I use Single-point AF, for BIF I switch to 25-point Dynamic. I usually make the switch via a button on my 500 PF.

I use BBF with Manual mode and Auto-ISO. That way I have control over shutter speed and aperture with my right hand finger and thumb. It works for me.

 

[DavidWright2010]

I pretty much only shoot birds with my D500. For most birds I use Single-point AF, for BIF I switch to 25-point Dynamic. I usually make the switch via a button on my 500 PF.

I use BBF with Manual mode and Auto-ISO. That way I have control over shutter speed and aperture with my right hand finger and thumb. It works for me.

Thanks for your suggestions. Recently I have used BBF exclusively, and think that helps. For this attempt on vultures, I used d72 focus and that was barely enough - I probably have a world record for shakey hands.



Tracking is much better than with my D7200.

This morning I tried d 153 on crows and that might work better



But now it appears to me that AF needs fine tuning for 600mm:



These are 2 cereal boxes. The bottom image is at 300mm and 20' distance, the top image is at 600mm and (roughly) 40' distance. The 600mm image is soft (or maybe horizontal camera motion? These were taken with 12 sec shutter delay.) I've tried the auto AF fine tuning and gotten an error message "Auto AF tuning is not available at current focus settings". So I'm trying to figure out what's wrong (and yes, I switched to AF-S to do this).

David

 

[Blufftonian]

Do you have the Sigma dock? I've read that you can fine tune Sigma lenses for different distances with it.

This link might help.

 

[DavidWright2010]

Do you have the Sigma dock? I've read that you can fine tune Sigma lenses for different distances with it.

This link might help.

Yes, I do. But it's had a hard life and may not work anymore.

Meanwhile, I did a slant test by manually setting the offset, and then "find edges" on the images. (Left edge of box closer to camera, so slightly back-focused.)



Focus was on the "W". Top is +5, middle 0, and bottom -5. So maybe -2 is best.

David

 

[tclune]

I'm a birder who shoots with the D500. As suggested by others, Steve Perry is the go-to guy for Nikon camera settings for birding. I have not used the Sigma 150-600, but I have shot with the Sigma 150-500, the Nikon 200-500, and the Nikon 500 PF. My experience when birding with the D500 and these lenses is as follows: First, you should realize that the D500 will not focus well with the slower lenses anywhere except in the central region of the viewfinder. How much of the central portion is useful depends on lighting (including whether you are using a 1.4 TC.) But I always start out trying to get the bird centered in the viewfinder and worry about composition by cropping in post.

Second, the lens itself will make a huge difference in focusing speed. My Sigma was too slow-focusing for most BIF; the Nikon 200-500 was just barely adequate for BIF if I used Group focusing, at least initially; and the 500 PF was by far the fastest-focusing of this lot. I could use D25 reliably. I found 3D just too slow to be of use with BIF at all. Of course, all of this is a mixture of the camera. the lens, and the photographer's skills. A better photographer might be able to nail the focusing on BIF with 3D, but I never could. With the 200-500, I used to use Group to initially lock on to the bird and then switch to D25. The reason for that is that Group just grabs the first thing it comes to in the big diamond. That's good for quickly getting in the right ballpark, but you can readily end up with photos focused on wing tips for larger birds. I set the focus preview button to Group focusing and the BBF button for D25. I'd grab the bird with Group and switch immediately to D25 to lock onto the head if possible. Of course, with birds like swallows, you're lucky to get them in focus at all, so I'd just stay with Group and mostly get photos of where the bird recently had been.

Finally, use focus range limiting on your lens if you are trying to get BIF. It makes a huge difference in the worst case for focusing. If your lens has a focus recall button, set that for the rough distance you think you'll want.

HTH

 

[DavidWright2010]

I'm a birder who shoots with the D500. As suggested by others, Steve Perry is the go-to guy for Nikon camera settings for birding. I have not used the Sigma 150-600, but I have shot with the Sigma 150-500, the Nikon 200-500, and the Nikon 500 PF. My experience when birding with the D500 and these lenses is as follows: First, you should realize that the D500 will not focus well with the slower lenses anywhere except in the central region of the viewfinder. How much of the central portion is useful depends on lighting (including whether you are using a 1.4 TC.) But I always start out trying to get the bird centered in the viewfinder and worry about composition by cropping in post.

Second, the lens itself will make a huge difference in focusing speed. My Sigma was too slow-focusing for most BIF; the Nikon 200-500 was just barely adequate for BIF if I used Group focusing, at least initially; and the 500 PF was by far the fastest-focusing of this lot. I could use D25 reliably. I found 3D just too slow to be of use with BIF at all. Of course, all of this is a mixture of the camera. the lens, and the photographer's skills. A better photographer might be able to nail the focusing on BIF with 3D, but I never could. With the 200-500, I used to use Group to initially lock on to the bird and then switch to D25. The reason for that is that Group just grabs the first thing it comes to in the big diamond. That's good for quickly getting in the right ballpark, but you can readily end up with photos focused on wing tips for larger birds. I set the focus preview button to Group focusing and the BBF button for D25. I'd grab the bird with Group and switch immediately to D25 to lock onto the head if possible. Of course, with birds like swallows, you're lucky to get them in focus at all, so I'd just stay with Group and mostly get photos of where the bird recently had been.

Finally, use focus range limiting on your lens if you are trying to get BIF. It makes a huge difference in the worst case for focusing. If your lens has a focus recall button, set that for the rough distance you think you'll want.

HTH

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I hadn't been setting the focus range limiter, I just set it now, to be ready for tomorrow.

David

 

[DavidWright2010]

So now I'm using focus mode d 72, BBF, and Cont.High. I go over to a nearby open field to practice, where there are crows, buzzards, and the occasional hawk (large birds that don't move too fast).

I'm definitely getting more keepers than with the D7200 body, but focus is still a big problem. I'm so shakey that rarely do I get the target bird in the center of view before holding down the BB.

I've ordered a gimbal which should help.

Some samples that are marginal in terms of focus, and of little or no interest, but are representative of what I am getting now.

Crows pestering a hawk:







Crow overhead:



headless buzzard:



David

 

[smallegret]

For many years I've used a D7200/Sigma 150-60mm lens for bird pix. For perched birds, it worked very well; BIF, not so much. Recently I found a 'like new' D500 at MPB for a decent price.

I've been studying the manual, and also found a Nikon manual "D500 Professional Setting Guide, sports AF edition", which I thought might be helpful in choosing the correct settings for BIF. However I see this on page 6:



OK. But why does the 3D tracking selection spell out "3D' in focus points? And what subjects are considered?

The next page reads:



Was a column on the left omitted? This doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I'm guessing that for BIF, you want 3D tracking.

And later on, page 18, the discussion about Focus tracking with lock-on, for BIF you want blocked AF response delayed, and the Subject Motion steady for large birds (eagles) and erratic for birds like swallows?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David

3D mode is a little capricious and I never use it for birding, in fact I never use at all ...

delayed response is there for when a subject passes behind say a tree or an obstacle to prevent the AF from focusing on the obstacle ..... I leave it at the middle setting ...... speed of response does what it says "eratic" for birds moving eratically around the frame.

One of the most unsung modes is "auto area AF" it uses all the focus points across the frame focusing on the nearest subject ...... which in the case of the BIF means it behaves like a sort of subject detection ...... I use it regularly ..... see my Flickr page below.

The best way to understand the settings is to use the camera .... I love the D500 ... so much so I have two.



BTW, the auto system of fine tuning is flawed, mainly by it's variability, first time it may give you a setting of -5 .... the next +1 etc .... it rarely gives you the same setting twice. Steve Perry did a video on it ..... he and I recommend you fine tune using conventional methods!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124690178@N08/

 

[GeoffRG]

I don't have a D500 but the AF is the same as the cameras I do have, the D5. I use single point AF on the shutter release, I have Dynamic 72 + AF ON using the AF ON button (buttons in my case, the D5 has two) and Dynamic 153 + AF ON using the lens function button (where present). All with AF C selected. The D500 can be set up much the same, my wife has two of them.

This has worked well for birds but there are limitations:

• Dynamic AF selects the nearest subject, what the camera regards as the subject might be different from your selection. For example with birds on the ground it might well focus in front of the subject because there's grass in the way.
• If you keep single point AF on the shutter button you MUST keep the AF ON button pressed when you release the shutter or the camera will go back to single point AF
• With any Dynamic setting the camera will focus on the nearest part of a bird, not the eye. Sometimes single point is better.
• Be aware that occasionally a subject may be too close for single point AF.

The reason for keeping single point on the shutter button is that I have both single point and D72 available simply by pressing a different button. For photographing birds you don't have time to go into the menu to change the AF mode.

 

[DavidWright2010]

I don't have a D500 but the AF is the same as the cameras I do have, the D5. I use single point AF on the shutter release, I have Dynamic 72 + AF ON using the AF ON button (buttons in my case, the D5 has two) and Dynamic 153 + AF ON using the lens function button (where present). All with AF C selected. The D500 can be set up much the same, my wife has two of them.

This has worked well for birds but there are limitations:

• Dynamic AF selects the nearest subject, what the camera regards as the subject might be different from your selection. For example with birds on the ground it might well focus in front of the subject because there's grass in the way.
• If you keep single point AF on the shutter button you MUST keep the AF ON button pressed when you release the shutter or the camera will go back to single point AF
• With any Dynamic setting the camera will focus on the nearest part of a bird, not the eye. Sometimes single point is better.
• Be aware that occasionally a subject may be too close for single point AF.

The reason for keeping single point on the shutter button is that I have both single point and D72 available simply by pressing a different button. For photographing birds you don't have time to go into the menu to change the AF mode.

Good points, thanks.



David

 

[DavidWright2010]

I bought a gimbal - what a difference that makes!

I no longer have to jab the BB focus button as the bird jumps around in the FOV; I can easily center it, and follow the bird. I think the focus should be better, but I can't find my Sigma dock and may have to buy another one. But focus is "OK" in 80-90% of all my pix.

I went over to a local open space mid-day, and waited for some large birds to fly by.


Hawk




vulture




Crow

David

 

[DavidWright2010]

I went out to the same spot again and got more pix - hopefully my technique is improving:







These large black bids are ravens, not crows, from tail shape:







And I finally got around to comparing the sharpness of my lens on the D500 vs the D7200:


Neighbor's fence across the street

Top row is D7200, bottom D500. Left column 600mm, right 400mm. SOOC. Tripod mounted, 12 sec shutter delay, 2 shots for each setting. So the D500 performance at 600mm is much worse than the D7200. I'll have to look into whether or not the dock can fix this. Seems doubtful.

David

 

[Bill Ferris]

Was focus set using Live View (contrast detect), or a press of a button to which focus acquisition (phase detect) has been assigned?

 

[DavidWright2010]

Was focus set using Live View (contrast detect), or a press of a button to which focus acquisition (phase detect) has been assigned?

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ

Button press

 

[Bill Ferris]

Was focus set using Live View (contrast detect), or a press of a button to which focus acquisition (phase detect) has been assigned?

Button press

If you use Live View, you can confirm that the lens focuses well with the camera and that an autofocus fine-tune (AFFT) adjustment or an adjustment in the Sigma USB dock will improve the performance.