D30

[Truelight]

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations please?

-Body
-1 GB Microdrive (current promo includes 340 MB microdrive)

-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need to be ordered separately?) (I assume it uses the standard BP-511?)
-Canon EF 28-200mm lens
-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?
Any other lenses you prefer?
(The EF 35-350 looks mighty nice but at ~ $1,700 I might have to wait)

Anything else I should go for here? (I already have a Canon 380EX flash which I use with a Pro-70 -- shouldn't that work OK with the D30 too?).

Thanks...

--Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

 

[Lin Evans]

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated
accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the
stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations
please?

-Body
-1 GB Microdrive (current promo includes 340 MB microdrive)
-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?) (I assume it uses the standard BP-511?)
-Canon EF 28-200mm lens
-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?
Any other lenses you prefer?
(The EF 35-350 looks mighty nice but at ~ $1,700 I might have to wait)

Anything else I should go for here? (I already have a Canon 380EX
flash which I use with a Pro-70 -- shouldn't that work OK with the
D30 too?).

Thanks...

--
Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

Hi Rick,

Let's start with the microdrive. The 1 gig works fairly well with the D30, but is on the slow side and a bit vulnerable to shock. If it's part of a package deal and you can "upgrade" to the 1 gig without too much penalty then go for it. Otherwise, look into a fairly high capacity (128-256) CF card and perhaps a Digital Wallet or similar. If you like, I'll email you some URL's comparing CF card speeds with different manufacturers (they vary WIDELY!).

The battery grip doesn't come with batteries, but the camera comes with one - so order one additional - same battery.

As far as the lens situation goes - above all else get youself a Canon 50mm F1.8. It's cheap and it's excellent. Depending on what you will primarily be using the camera for in your everyday practice - the $89 or so you spend on the F1.8 50 will be money well spent. Not knowing exactly your use - it's difficult to suggest other alternatives, but if you get at least one 28-105 or similar and a 100-400IS along with the 50mm it should cover nearly all practical needs. If the 100-400 (about $1700) is out of the budget range, then look for a 1.4x tele and a suitable mid-range which will accept. Actually, you can get adapters which will adapt nearly any Canon lens for use with the 1.4x. All things considered, the primes are a bit sharper than the zooms, but the IS and L zooms are VERY good, especially flexible for many situations.

Your flash is probably fine - I use the 550 which has a bit more versatility, but between the built-in and 330 you should be covered for the longer lenses and more difficult longer range flash. With the 550, you can sync to the full 1/4000ths - I'm not sure about the 330.

Lin

 

[Herb32234]

IF you are going to get the D30...don't mess with any lens that isn't FAST. I had the lens you talk about and ended up getting ALL Canon "L" series lens...17-35 2.8, 28-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8, also got the 50mm 1.4 and a Sigma 28mm 1.8

Like any camera you can't have too fast a lens....you can always close it down...but you can only get it so wide.

regards, Herb

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated
accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the
stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations
please?

-Body
-1 GB Microdrive (current promo includes 340 MB microdrive)
-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?) (I assume it uses the standard BP-511?)
-Canon EF 28-200mm lens
-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?
Any other lenses you prefer?
(The EF 35-350 looks mighty nice but at ~ $1,700 I might have to wait)

Anything else I should go for here? (I already have a Canon 380EX
flash which I use with a Pro-70 -- shouldn't that work OK with the
D30 too?).

Thanks...

--
Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

 

[Thom]

-1 GB Microdrive

I agree re. CF

-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?)

Order two more, so you'll have one back-up in case both in the grip die on you, it does happen.

-Canon EF 28-200mm lens

Personally, don't think much of what I've read about this lens, and never liked the extreme zooming barrel on this type of 7x zoom range, but I haven't owned one.

-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

A decent lens, but too much overlap with a 28-to-whatever. Basically a narrow zoom range normal lens on the D30. Go for at least a 17-35 in which ever brand you can afford, the Canon 17-35L being your best option.

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?

I would strongly advise the 28-135, then go from there in the consumer line of Canon lenses, unless you're into L glass prices.

Any other lenses you prefer?

Depends on what you're going to shoot, Ditto on the 50 f/1.8, the 100 f/2.8 macro is very nice, Sigma f/2.8 14mm if you need an actual wide angle lens, then there are the longer lenses to consider.

 

[DavidP #28649]

I presume you'll be using this for police business. So, what kind of pictures will you need to be taking?

Off-hand, I can't imagine any uses for a long lens (other than surveillance work). In that case, I'd go with the 200mm f/1.8 (unless you're trying to be more discreet, in which case I'd se the 200mm f/2.8).

I'd assume you might need to do some macro work. In which case, the 100 macro would work quite well. If you don't need a true 1:1 macro, then the 28-135 IS (which has macro close-focusing ability) would be an excellent choice).

I'd get one fast lens for low light, like the 50 f/1.4

I would imagine you'd need something for interior shots, so the 17-35 f/2.8 or the 14mm would probably be needed.

BTW, I wasn't aware that digital pictures were allowed as evidence in criminal court cases. You may want to check into that.

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated
accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the
stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations
please?

--
Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

 

[Mike Kelley]

BTW, I wasn't aware that digital pictures were allowed as evidence
in criminal court cases. You may want to check into that.

Not saying you're off base here, but videotape is certainly allowed in criminal cases. I can hardly see anyone making a case for a difference between digital stills and video (if anything, the stills should have more credibility).

Manipulation is possible with anything nowadays -- although I don't play a lawyer on TV I suspect the bottom line is just how credible the evidence is, regardless of the medium. A police officer testifying that he took the images himself would have a high degree of credibility with me.

 

[John W.]

I think the "problem", if indeed there is one, is that your ORIGINAL is already digital and can be easily doctored. An original film NEGATIVE/SLIDE is much harder if not impossible to manipulate.

John

BTW, I wasn't aware that digital pictures were allowed as evidence
in criminal court cases. You may want to check into that.

Not saying you're off base here, but videotape is certainly allowed
in criminal cases. I can hardly see anyone making a case for a
difference between digital stills and video (if anything, the
stills should have more credibility).

Manipulation is possible with anything nowadays -- although I
don't play a lawyer on TV I suspect the bottom line is just how
credible the evidence is, regardless of the medium. A police
officer testifying that he took the images himself would have a
high degree of credibility with me.

 

[stan_g]

Herb has got it right!

Like any camera you can't have too fast a lens....you can always
close it down...but you can only get it so wide.

regards, Herb

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated
accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the
stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations
please?

-Body
-1 GB Microdrive (current promo includes 340 MB microdrive)
-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?) (I assume it uses the standard BP-511?)
-Canon EF 28-200mm lens
-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?
Any other lenses you prefer?
(The EF 35-350 looks mighty nice but at ~ $1,700 I might have to wait)

Anything else I should go for here? (I already have a Canon 380EX
flash which I use with a Pro-70 -- shouldn't that work OK with the
D30 too?).

Thanks...

--
Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

 

[stan_g]

listen to these guys! they know what they are talking about!

-1 GB Microdrive

I agree re. CF

-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?)

Order two more, so you'll have one back-up in case both in the grip
die on you, it does happen.

-Canon EF 28-200mm lens

Personally, don't think much of what I've read about this lens, and
never liked the extreme zooming barrel on this type of 7x zoom
range, but I haven't owned one.

-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

A decent lens, but too much overlap with a 28-to-whatever.
Basically a narrow zoom range normal lens on the D30. Go for at
least a 17-35 in which ever brand you can afford, the Canon 17-35L
being your best option.

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?

I would strongly advise the 28-135, then go from there in the
consumer line of Canon lenses, unless you're into L glass prices.

Any other lenses you prefer?

Depends on what you're going to shoot, Ditto on the 50 f/1.8, the
100 f/2.8 macro is very nice, Sigma f/2.8 14mm if you need an
actual wide angle lens, then there are the longer lenses to
consider.

 

[DonCohen]

Hi Rick,

Seems like you're pretty much on track. Make sure you include a card reader to use with the microdrive (CF Type II) if you don't already have one.

The 28-135 is an excellent lens to use with the D30, and many feel it to be one of the better all-around lenses to use with the D30. I have one, and like it a lot.

You might want to browse around my website (link below), where I've posted a fair amount of information relative to the D30, equipment, Raw Format, and some other digital issues, as well as a number of photographic galleries (mostly shot with the D30).

Don

http://www.dlcphotography.net

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated
accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the
stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations
please?

-Body
-1 GB Microdrive (current promo includes 340 MB microdrive)
-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?) (I assume it uses the standard BP-511?)
-Canon EF 28-200mm lens
-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?
Any other lenses you prefer?
(The EF 35-350 looks mighty nice but at ~ $1,700 I might have to wait)

Anything else I should go for here? (I already have a Canon 380EX
flash which I use with a Pro-70 -- shouldn't that work OK with the
D30 too?).

Thanks...

--
Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

 

[Larry Mohr]

You might want to rent one for a while before you buy. The AF problem is real and not a minor issue. You may be seriously disappointed and severely frustrated at the camera's consistent searching while in AF mode.

Be sure before you buy even with someone else's money because it can be very frustrating

I may soon be in the position of ordering a D30 and associated
accessories for my work (means the state gets to pay!). Here's the
stuff I'm thinking about. Give me your opinions, recommendations
please?

-Body
-1 GB Microdrive (current promo includes 340 MB microdrive)
-BG-ED3 Battery Grip (does this come with batteries or do they need
to be ordered separately?) (I assume it uses the standard BP-511?)
-Canon EF 28-200mm lens
-Canon EF 20-35mm lens

What about the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM?
(with the image stablizer) - better than the 28-200?
Any other lenses you prefer?
(The EF 35-350 looks mighty nice but at ~ $1,700 I might have to wait)

Anything else I should go for here? (I already have a Canon 380EX
flash which I use with a Pro-70 -- shouldn't that work OK with the
D30 too?).

Thanks...

--
Rick Ohnsman
Idaho State Police
[email protected]

 

[Mike Kelley]

I think the "problem", if indeed there is one, is that your
ORIGINAL is already digital and can be easily doctored. An original
film NEGATIVE/SLIDE is much harder if not impossible to manipulate.

Yeah. My only comment would be -- just how would you be able to tell what was original or not? I can dupe a slide or negative and you'ld never know the difference.

I think we have to accept we are in an era where photographic evidence has to be taken with as much a dosage of salt as eye witness testimony (which is about as bad as it can get).

 

[Truelight]

Don...

An opinion means so much more when one has the "goods" to back it up and your awesome photos show you definately know what you're talking about! My first love is nature photography and you are doing an excellent job in this area. Your website is also very informative. I could learn a lot from you.

Though I work for the Idaho State Police, it is as a Public Information Officer, so rarely are my shots used for evidentiary purposes. More often we use them in reports, for brochures, in safety campaigns and posters, training, etc. A few years back, we tried a Sony DKC-ID1 as a venture into digital photography. Pleased with that, we upgraded to the Canon Pro-70 I'm using now. Since that purchase, I almost never shoot film anymore. Now the department is pretty much sold on digital and so I'm getting signs that the $5K or so I'd like to spend on a D30 and accessories may be a definate possibility. I thank you (and the others here) for your good advice on lenses.

Here's an "artsy" shot I took the other day during our annual Idaho Peace Officers Memorial. I added the badge and did the other retouching in Paint Shop Pro 7.0, my current "weapon of choice."



When I'm not doing ISP work, my personal camera is a Nikon Coolpix 950 and my "fledgling business" is True Light Words & Pictures. Here's a link to some of my albums on Photopoint:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=22654&Auth=false

As a fellow nature photographer, I'd be interested in your feedback. Most of the shots were with the CP950, a few others with the Pro-70.

Thanks again!

Rick Ohnsman
True Light Words & Pictures
[email protected]

 

[DavidP #28649]

Now that I have a better idea of what you'll be shooting (and your budget was specified earlier), I'll make a recommendation.

Start with the 28-135 IS lens. That covers most of the range you'll probably need, and the IS is absolutely fantastic.

If you need wide-angle, I'd consider the Sigma 14mm. You don't really NEED a zoom at that focal length (you can "zoom" manually using your feet).

For longer focal lengths, I'd normally recommend the 100-400 IS -- but it's pricey ($1500+). So, I'd say go with the 200 mm f/2.8 lens instead. Nice and light and relatively fast.

I'd also add a 50 mm f/1.4 lens. If you've got to shave a few hundred off the total, get the 50mm f/1.8 instead. Both are very light and very fast lenses.

Your 380EX should work fine with the D-30.

The grip doesn't come with an extra battery pack (and doesn't require one, though I'd recommend an extra battery for it). Yep, it uses two BP-511's (or just one).

The grip isn't really necessary, but I highly recommend it. I like the feel of the grip, I like the vertical controls, and I like that it uses two batteries.

 

[John W.]

Yeah. My only comment would be -- just how would you be able to
tell what was original or not? I can dupe a slide or negative and
you'ld never know the difference.

You missed the point. Of course you can dupe a neg or slide. But altering a neg or slide so that it would be imperceivable would be nearly impossible. You would probably have to digitize the slide/neg, manipulate it and THEN dupe it. Investigators would want to see the entire roll of film. At least > I

John

 

[DonCohen]

Hi Rick,

Allow me to return the compliment - I checked our your album of 42 "best shots" and was extremely impressed with the quality of your work. You obviously have a good eye for composition, and can back that up with good exposures and editing, good feel for color, and great imagination and skill with some of the special effects shots. Very impressive!

You should be able to do great things with the D30. If you have additional questions concerning lens choice or anything else, feel free to email me directly.

Thanks for posting the link.

Don

http://www.dlcphotography.net

[email protected]

 

[kelleym]

You missed the point. Of course you can dupe a neg or slide. But
altering a neg or slide so that it would be imperceivable would be
nearly impossible.

No, actually you missed my point. I think we can agree to disagree here -- I believe it would be quite easy to alter a slide and negative, dupe it, and present it as the original (and doing it on a roll would be child's play).

Indeed, I have done just this sort of thing in my younger day, when I did a lot of darkroom and retouching work. But, as we are much more than off topic, let's just end this portion and leave evidence in the hands of the experts.

 

[Truelight]

Don...

Thank you for the kind words... especially appreciated when I have seen the caliber of your work. Feel free to poke around the other albums too if you like - being a nature photographer you will enjoy the Idaho Autumn albums.

As for the D30 package, here's what I'm preparing to present to my supervisor. I'd hoped to stay under the $5K mark, but why not shoot a little high? You'll note I've also offered a substitute that keeps the total under $5K. I’d like to add the 17-35 f/2.8 too, but there’s just not enough wiggle room here. I think I’d use the long-lens more. Are there wide-angle attachments, macro filters, etc. that would increase the versatility of what’s here at a lesser cost? I know I’m hurting a bit at the wide-end with what’s here – the D30 1.6x multiplier makes it kinda tough.

I could back out the 1 GB Microdrive, but only have about 64MB now in CF cards now and didn't figure that would be nearly enough with the D30 images. (I do understand Canon is offering a free 340MB microdrive right now as a promotion and an extra battery too).

So whatja think? (Prices shown are from one website - likely will vary a bit)

Canon D30
Camera Body $2,895.00
1 GB Microdrive $499.99
Battery Grip $199.95
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM lens (equiv. 80mm) $89.00
EF 28-135mm IS USM f/35.-5.6 lens (equiv. 45-216) $479.00
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM lens (equiv. 160-640) $1,544.95
Total Package -- $5,707.89

Alternate - sub EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM $514.95
(equiv. 120-480mm) Total Package -- $4,677.89

 

[DonCohen]

Rick,

Thank you for the kind words... especially appreciated when I have
seen the caliber of your work. Feel free to poke around the other
albums too if you like - being a nature photographer you will enjoy
the Idaho Autumn albums.

You're quite welcome; I am not a pro, nor a critic; I just call 'em like I see 'em...

Canon D30
Camera Body $2,895.00
1 GB Microdrive $499.99
Battery Grip $199.95
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM lens (equiv. 80mm) $89.00

Typo - you mean the 50/1.8, which is certainly a good bargain lens.

EF 28-135mm IS USM f/35.-5.6 lens (equiv. 45-216) $479.00
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM lens (equiv. 160-640) $1,544.95
Total Package -- $5,707.89

Alternate - sub EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM $514.95
(equiv. 120-480mm) Total Package -- $4,677.89

Looks pretty good overall, Rick. I would think/hope you could do better on the prices, but haven't checked recently. The 28-135 does have decent macro capabilities - around 1:5. One cheap option to decrease minimum focus distance and increase magnification is extension tubes. You can get a set of 3 Kenko extension tubes for around $120. They can be used with any lens, but might come in handy with the 28-135 and 100-400. With the 50, you're working distances will be pretty tight which can be a problem. And the Kenko is of equivalent quality to the Canon (no glass involved) and considerably cheaper.

Some have opted for the Sigma 17-35 instead of the Canon, to save some bucks. You can search this forum and see a lot of discussion on this topic.

The 340 mb drive would probably be sufficient - obviously it all depends on what your particular needs are, if you have a laptop available in the field to download shots to, etc. The 1 gb would be nice, but if you need those bucks for lenses, that might be a reasonable trade-off.

As for where to get them, B&H and Adorama have gotten the majority of my business, and I believe are about as reputable as they get. I got my D30 itself at Arlington Camera ( http://www.arlingtoncamera.com ) and they still have it at $2699, which is what I paid for it. Adorama matched any other prices I found, and so I got the majority of my lenses there.

Let me know what you decide/get, and definitely post shots once you get in the groove! Feel free to email me should other issues/questions come up.

Don

http://www.dlcphotography.net

 

[jcwphoto]

I agree with Don, BH Photo ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com ) and Adorama ( http://www.adoramacamera.com ) are very good sources for fair prices (probably lower than the ones you had listed). I would also suggest Delta International ( http://www.deltainternational.com ), if you would be okay with grey market versions of the same merchandise.

Jason

Thank you for the kind words... especially appreciated when I have
seen the caliber of your work. Feel free to poke around the other
albums too if you like - being a nature photographer you will enjoy
the Idaho Autumn albums.

You're quite welcome; I am not a pro, nor a critic; I just call 'em
like I see 'em...

Canon D30
Camera Body $2,895.00
1 GB Microdrive $499.99
Battery Grip $199.95
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM lens (equiv. 80mm) $89.00

Typo - you mean the 50/1.8, which is certainly a good bargain lens.

EF 28-135mm IS USM f/35.-5.6 lens (equiv. 45-216) $479.00
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM lens (equiv. 160-640) $1,544.95
Total Package -- $5,707.89

Alternate - sub EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM $514.95
(equiv. 120-480mm) Total Package -- $4,677.89

Looks pretty good overall, Rick. I would think/hope you could do
better on the prices, but haven't checked recently. The 28-135
does have decent macro capabilities - around 1:5. One cheap option
to decrease minimum focus distance and increase magnification is
extension tubes. You can get a set of 3 Kenko extension tubes for
around $120. They can be used with any lens, but might come in
handy with the 28-135 and 100-400. With the 50, you're working
distances will be pretty tight which can be a problem. And the
Kenko is of equivalent quality to the Canon (no glass involved) and
considerably cheaper.

Some have opted for the Sigma 17-35 instead of the Canon, to save
some bucks. You can search this forum and see a lot of discussion
on this topic.

The 340 mb drive would probably be sufficient - obviously it all
depends on what your particular needs are, if you have a laptop
available in the field to download shots to, etc. The 1 gb would
be nice, but if you need those bucks for lenses, that might be a
reasonable trade-off.

As for where to get them, B&H and Adorama have gotten the majority
of my business, and I believe are about as reputable as they get. I
got my D30 itself at Arlington Camera
( http://www.arlingtoncamera.com ) and they still have it at $2699,
which is what I paid for it. Adorama matched any other prices I
found, and so I got the majority of my lenses there.

Let me know what you decide/get, and definitely post shots once you
get in the groove! Feel free to email me should other
issues/questions come up.

Don

http://www.dlcphotography.net