D2H and D70 @ISO1600 noise comparison

[Daniel Wee]

I decided to put the Nikon D2H and the D70 to a test to compare the noise performance at ISO1600. I noticed that at ISO1600, the D70 is about 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop darker than the D2H. Also noted was that apparent color moire was more severe in the D2H compared to the D70. The following are 100% crops taken with a 50mm at F2, using RAW/NEF with only WB adjustments and Color Moire noise reduction set to "High".

Taken with D2H



Taken with D70 (+0.3EV)



Taken with D70 but pushed +0.67EV in NC4.1



As above but resized to similar to D2H Crop



My personal conclusions is that the D2H doesn't do too badly in terms of noise and would be equal for the most part although it does seem to have bigger noise "grains" and hence more apparent color moire issues but the NC4.1 Color moire noise reduction takes care of it nicely.

The fact that the D70 has higher resolution means that upon resizing, it should have less noise at comparable size than the D2H but this is to be expected. That advantage doesn't seem too big though from the resized sample above.

Finally, the D2H seems to perform increasingly better against the D70 as we go down in ISO so that at ISO800, for example, it would have gained in terms of noise performance over the D70. It would be interesting to see how or what Nikon can do with the rumoured firmware upgrade and how that would impact the noise performance.

Daniel Wee

• D2H ISO1600 more sensitive than D70 ISO1600 by 1/3-2/3 stops
• WB on D2H and D70 gives different slightly results, D2H more saturated
• Noise in D2H better than D70 the lower the ISO from 1600
• D2H worse color noise and bigger noise "grain"

 

[Raymond Bradlau]

Would it be possible to post a small file of the entire photo for refrence? I know its hard to tell from just a little crop but it looks under exposed from both cameras

I decided to put the Nikon D2H and the D70 to a test to compare the
noise performance at ISO1600. I noticed that at ISO1600, the D70 is
about 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop darker than the D2H. Also noted was that
apparent color moire was more severe in the D2H compared to the
D70. The following are 100% crops taken with a 50mm at F2, using
RAW/NEF with only WB adjustments and Color Moire noise reduction
set to "High".

Taken with D2H



Taken with D70 (+0.3EV)



Taken with D70 but pushed +0.67EV in NC4.1



As above but resized to similar to D2H Crop



My personal conclusions is that the D2H doesn't do too badly in
terms of noise and would be equal for the most part although it
does seem to have bigger noise "grains" and hence more apparent
color moire issues but the NC4.1 Color moire noise reduction takes
care of it nicely.

The fact that the D70 has higher resolution means that upon
resizing, it should have less noise at comparable size than the D2H
but this is to be expected. That advantage doesn't seem too big
though from the resized sample above.

Finally, the D2H seems to perform increasingly better against the
D70 as we go down in ISO so that at ISO800, for example, it would
have gained in terms of noise performance over the D70. It would be
interesting to see how or what Nikon can do with the rumoured
firmware upgrade and how that would impact the noise performance.

Daniel Wee

• D2H ISO1600 more sensitive than D70 ISO1600 by 1/3-2/3 stops
• WB on D2H and D70 gives different slightly results, D2H more

saturated

• Noise in D2H better than D70 the lower the ISO from 1600
• D2H worse color noise and bigger noise "grain"

--
http://www.pbase.com/ray645

 

[Dave Harpe]

Seriously. What is the real point here? The D70 isn't a sports camera, and the D2H isn't a low-end consumer camera. The two don't have the same chip technology or the same resolution. The only thing they really have in common is that they're both made by Nikon.

Dave

 

[krypton]

hmmm..
you realy gauge D70 as a "low-end-consumer camera"?

Seriously. What is the real point here? The D70 isn't a sports
camera, and the D2H isn't a low-end consumer camera. The two don't
have the same chip technology or the same resolution. The only
thing they really have in common is that they're both made by Nikon.

Dave

 

[Tom K.182709]

hmmm..
you realy gauge D70 as a "low-end-consumer camera"?

I remember when $999 got you a N90 with a vertical grip - considered pro back then. I guess everyone has higher credit limits now.

Seriously. What is the real point here? The D70 isn't a sports
camera, and the D2H isn't a low-end consumer camera. The two don't
have the same chip technology or the same resolution. The only
thing they really have in common is that they're both made by Nikon.

Dave

 

[Daniel Wee]

It's not underexposed. What I posted was merely the 100% Crop of some of the shadow areas where noise is most obvious and pronounced. Here is the reference pic. The crops come from the shadowed area in the shelf where the grey box is.



Daniel Wee

Would it be possible to post a small file of the entire photo for
refrence? I know its hard to tell from just a little crop but it
looks under exposed from both cameras

 

[Daniel Wee]

Seriously. What is the real point here? The D70 isn't a sports
camera, and the D2H isn't a low-end consumer camera. The two don't
have the same chip technology or the same resolution. The only
thing they really have in common is that they're both made by Nikon.

Why compare? Lots of reason really. It's not a question of which is the high-end or low-end tool. For many people, they are just tools for different purposes. Comaprisons like this help use decide which tool to use. I don't believe professionals really care if it's a cheap "low-end" tool as long as it delivers where it is needed.

Secondly, this was in response to the other thread where comments were being made about the relative noise performance. Rather than just having arbitrary or subjective comments, why not settle it once for all with a test?

I'm sure there's a lot more reasons to compare. My question would be - "What's the harm in comparing?"

Daniel Wee

 

[Michael Klein]

Based up this silly comparison...I'd have to say...the D2H which cost
3 times as much as the D70 isnt 3 times better in the noise department...lol
now Im being silly.

Seriously. What is the real point here? The D70 isn't a sports
camera, and the D2H isn't a low-end consumer camera. The two don't
have the same chip technology or the same resolution. The only
thing they really have in common is that they're both made by Nikon.

Why compare? Lots of reason really. It's not a question of which is
the high-end or low-end tool. For many people, they are just tools
for different purposes. Comaprisons like this help use decide which
tool to use. I don't believe professionals really care if it's a
cheap "low-end" tool as long as it delivers where it is needed.

Secondly, this was in response to the other thread where comments
were being made about the relative noise performance. Rather than
just having arbitrary or subjective comments, why not settle it
once for all with a test?

I'm sure there's a lot more reasons to compare. My question would
be - "What's the harm in comparing?"

Daniel Wee

 

[Daniel Wee]

Based up this silly comparison...I'd have to say...the D2H which cost
3 times as much as the D70 isnt 3 times better in the noise
department...lol
now Im being silly.

Not sure what you're saying but there's nothing silly about it. That's the fact, the noise level in D2H is similar to the noise level in the D70. Of course, you're not just paying for the noise level, there's a lot of other things that make the D2H more expensive but that should be obvious. I wonder if the Porsche that costs 4-times my cheap Jap car, would run 4-times as fast .... hmmmm .... now that's being silly.

Daniel Wee

 

[Michael Klein]

Daniel,

Why dont you take the same picture using the D2H and D70 outdoors without any post processing..use the same exact lens..lets see how the two cameras do against each other...I'd rather see that then the noise issue....

Based up this silly comparison...I'd have to say...the D2H which cost
3 times as much as the D70 isnt 3 times better in the noise
department...lol
now Im being silly.

Not sure what you're saying but there's nothing silly about it.
That's the fact, the noise level in D2H is similar to the noise
level in the D70. Of course, you're not just paying for the noise
level, there's a lot of other things that make the D2H more
expensive but that should be obvious. I wonder if the Porsche that
costs 4-times my cheap Jap car, would run 4-times as fast ....
hmmmm .... now that's being silly.

Daniel Wee

 

[Daniel Wee]

Why dont you take the same picture using the D2H and D70 outdoors
without any post processing..use the same exact lens..lets see how
the two cameras do against each other...I'd rather see that then
the noise issue....

I know what you mean, but that's a separate test that does not invalidate the noise test. I have both and quite honestly, I prefer the D2H by far and in every respect. Notwithstanding that, I'm still very interested in how the two cameras are similar or differ because I will be using both and would need to know the details of the differences. I see a lot of people who go from one to another camera basically expecting them to perform the same but that's simply not the case (eg. D2H ISO1600 is more sensitive than D70). IMO there is a totally legitimate place for technical comparisons and tests, and it's not like we're being innundated with tests - only questions.

In my usage, a little post-processing doesn't bother me. In fact, it's mostly the final image that counts, regardless of the equipment, the cost, or the post-processing. If you are interested to see some of the latest D2H images, you can look at them here:-

http://www.tsebi.com/Bam
http://www.tsebi.com/Bam/Garmi
http://www.tsebi.com/reviews/Bam

I've not shot anything serious with the D70, partly because I'm so comfortable with the D2H as it is. Ie. D2H does the job and from this test, it looks like even at ISO1600, I can keep using the D2H. The only times I may need the D70 would be when I need the additional resolution, or when I want something light.

Daniel Wee

 

[paratom]

I do not find the test silly.

If you pay 3 times, dont you want to be the camera at least as good in every important aspect?

Wouldnt you be frustrated if you shoot a scene with your great -handling d2h and a person next to you shoots with a D70 and then you look at both prints and people like the D70 print better because of less noise?

I would not buy a Porsche if it had a great acceleration but a low maximum speed or bad brakes.

Of course it is not possible to make it compfortable and sporty regarding the suspension.

Seriously. What is the real point here? The D70 isn't a sports
camera, and the D2H isn't a low-end consumer camera. The two don't
have the same chip technology or the same resolution. The only
thing they really have in common is that they're both made by Nikon.

Why compare? Lots of reason really. It's not a question of which is
the high-end or low-end tool. For many people, they are just tools
for different purposes. Comaprisons like this help use decide which
tool to use. I don't believe professionals really care if it's a
cheap "low-end" tool as long as it delivers where it is needed.

Secondly, this was in response to the other thread where comments
were being made about the relative noise performance. Rather than
just having arbitrary or subjective comments, why not settle it
once for all with a test?

I'm sure there's a lot more reasons to compare. My question would
be - "What's the harm in comparing?"

Daniel Wee

--
Regards,
TOM

 

[Photobug197965]

can you show examples proving this point? In your posted images I see no color moire but just noise.

BTW ignore the complaints about your post. I can't understand why people complain about information provided. If it doesn't mean anything to them, why don't they just ignore it? I say bring it on and I'll judge it myself.

Photobug

I decided to put the Nikon D2H and the D70 to a test to compare the
noise performance at ISO1600. I noticed that at ISO1600, the D70 is
about 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop darker than the D2H. Also noted was that
apparent color moire was more severe in the D2H compared to the
D70. The following are 100% crops taken with a 50mm at F2, using
RAW/NEF with only WB adjustments and Color Moire noise reduction
set to "High".

Taken with D2H



Taken with D70 (+0.3EV)



Taken with D70 but pushed +0.67EV in NC4.1



As above but resized to similar to D2H Crop



My personal conclusions is that the D2H doesn't do too badly in
terms of noise and would be equal for the most part although it
does seem to have bigger noise "grains" and hence more apparent
color moire issues but the NC4.1 Color moire noise reduction takes
care of it nicely.

The fact that the D70 has higher resolution means that upon
resizing, it should have less noise at comparable size than the D2H
but this is to be expected. That advantage doesn't seem too big
though from the resized sample above.

Finally, the D2H seems to perform increasingly better against the
D70 as we go down in ISO so that at ISO800, for example, it would
have gained in terms of noise performance over the D70. It would be
interesting to see how or what Nikon can do with the rumoured
firmware upgrade and how that would impact the noise performance.

Daniel Wee

• D2H ISO1600 more sensitive than D70 ISO1600 by 1/3-2/3 stops
• WB on D2H and D70 gives different slightly results, D2H more

saturated

• Noise in D2H better than D70 the lower the ISO from 1600
• D2H worse color noise and bigger noise "grain"

--

Nikon N6006 & FM bodies; Nikkor 50/1.4 AF, 80-200/2.8D AF, 35-80D AF, Tokina 20-35 AF

Preordered D70 kit on 1/29! Still waiting...

 

[David Chin]

--
Nikon N6006 & FM bodies; Nikkor 50/1.4 AF, 80-200/2.8D AF, 35-80D
AF, Tokina 20-35 AF

Preordered D70 kit on 1/29! Still waiting...

--
Rgds, David ( http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/ )
Dee70 - http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/d70_posts
CP.4.5.0.0
CP.5.4.0.0 - Personal Experiences :>
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/cp5400_experiences

 

[Dave Harpe]

Wouldnt you be frustrated if you shoot a scene with your great
-handling d2h and a person next to you shoots with a D70 and then
you look at both prints and people like the D70 print better
because of less noise?

Let's take a look at your scenario. Let's say that the side-by-side you were talking about was at a high school basketball game. Let's also assume for a moment that we're both shooting with the same lens.

When we do the Pepsi challenge you described above and show a bunch of prints to the parents of the star forward in the game, they are going to pick my D2H prints. Why? Because I'm going to have two to three times as many tack-sharp, properly exposed peak-action shots than you are. More doesn't always mean better, but it sure helps when you're shooting sports. And that's why you pay $3K for a D2H.

These parents aren't going to print posters - they'll be printing 8x10's. Any minor quality differences are going to be lost on them. What they'll be looking at are the moments. These parents won't even notice if the D70 shadows are a little bit cleaner than the D2H's. Whoever has a good shot of junior at peak-action is going to win, and on average the D2H will get that shot more frequently than the D70, all things being equal (skill of photographer, lens choice, etc).

This is why it's pretty pointless to compare this kind of stuff between cameras of vastly different categories. You'd be crazy to shoot sports and PJ for hire using a D70, just as taking photos of kids at a birthday party with a D2H is overkill. Who cares if the D70 has a little bit less noise in the shadows than the D2H? it's not like that's going to keep someone who needs a D2H from buying a D2H...

Dave

 

[cameraman12]

Daniel,

Thanks for the tests. I'm still waiting to get my D2H next week and the suspense is killing me. It would be nice though to see a side by side shot, no crop, between the two with the same lens and subject. I've decided I'm also going to buy a d70 as a backup camera so I was just interested in the difference between the two images. Thanks for your help again.

 

[Daniel Wee]

This is why it's pretty pointless to compare this kind of stuff
between cameras of vastly different categories. You'd be crazy to
shoot sports and PJ for hire using a D70, just as taking photos of
kids at a birthday party with a D2H is overkill. Who cares if the
D70 has a little bit less noise in the shadows than the D2H? it's
not like that's going to keep someone who needs a D2H from buying a
D2H...

Dave, that's just one track thinking. For me, knowing that the D2H noise is comparable to the D70 means that I don't need to bother switching to the D70 even for non-sports shoots, since there doesn't seem to be such a big difference.

Secondly, it also puts to rest the complaints concerning the D2H noise since it does not appear to be that bad afterall. These and many other such legitimate reasons are why such a test is useful. Just because you are not concerned with it does not mean no one else is. Furthermore, I do not see the so-called point of your post since you are not providing any information, useful or otherwise.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Wee]

can you show examples proving this point? In your posted images I
see no color moire but just noise.

The reason the color moire is not visible here is because I used the Color Moire reduction feature in NC4.1. It seems to work pretty well with no degradation of details (but it doesn't reduce regular noise either, just color noise). If I get the time, I will do the crops to show the color moire in the D2H.

Daniel Wee

 

[Daniel Wee]

The reason the color moire is not visible here is because I used
the Color Moire reduction feature in NC4.1. It seems to work pretty
well with no degradation of details (but it doesn't reduce regular
noise either, just color noise). If I get the time, I will do the
crops to show the color moire in the D2H.

Daniel Wee

BTW, I put up a post a little earlier showing a crop of a D2H ISO1600 image before and after the NC4.1 Color moire reduction. You can see it here:-

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=8031564

Daniel Wee

 

[Jola]

I've decided I'm also going to buy a d70 as a backup
camera so I was just interested in the difference between the two
images. Thanks for your help again.

I would have thought that many pro's would do this, assuming that they didn't have other older cameras to use as backups.

Nobody is suggesting that the D70 competes with the D2h wrt the areas where the D2h is good, eg sports photography, fast action photography, etc.