D100...if not post processing, settings advice!

BobFromNY

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I just took my new D100 for it's first real outing. I took a bunch of shots of my kids sledding on this recent snow here in the northeast. I shot mostly in shutter priority as they sped past me on their way down the hill. I had the WB set for Cloudy -3 which I read was a favorite of alot of people to use all the time. I was shooting JPG, fine and sharpening was set to high. I don't mind doing some post processing and after shooting some raw the other day and playing with my trial of Capture 3, I definately see the benefits of that. My question is, today was just a test to see what kind of results I could get if I should feel like NOT doing any processing afterwards. My wife wanted some quick pics to send off to relatives so I tried to set up the D100 so I wouldn't have to do anything to them later. I was quite disappointed to see how they came out. I'm using Elements 2 and I found myself sitting down to do some quick "auto levels" and USM. They especially seemed to need the levels tweaked quite a bit. The color seemed good but why so drab in the contrast department? I used an older Non-D type 28-85mm 3.5-4.5 which was always a pretty sharp lens. I'm still getting to know my D100 and I'm wondering what settings would give a decent result when I just don't feel like or have the time to do the post processing. Thanks in advance, Bob
 
Bob,

It would be more helpful if you were to post a sample image from your outing. Just post an image straight from the camera with no adjustments made buy you. However, you should resize it down to 500 or 600 pixels on the longest side so that it will load quickly.

Most of the time, problems of this nature are all in the exposure set on the camera. I am not sure what you mean about changing the contrast. I don't know with out a picture if it was too contrasty or low contrast.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com
 
Hi Ken,

I wasn't sure of the correct way to attach an image so I did it by creating a gallery here: http://www.pbase.com/bobfromny/bobfromnysgallery The file Irene.jpg is obviously the one I attempted to adjust. I appreciate the advice, thanks!
Bob,

It would be more helpful if you were to post a sample image from
your outing. Just post an image straight from the camera with no
adjustments made buy you. However, you should resize it down to 500
or 600 pixels on the longest side so that it will load quickly.

Most of the time, problems of this nature are all in the exposure
set on the camera. I am not sure what you mean about changing the
contrast. I don't know with out a picture if it was too contrasty
or low contrast.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com
 
Sorry about that huge file download! It was much smaller when I set it up. I did something wrong! I'll try and re-do it I guess.
Bob,

It would be more helpful if you were to post a sample image from
your outing. Just post an image straight from the camera with no
adjustments made buy you. However, you should resize it down to 500
or 600 pixels on the longest side so that it will load quickly.

Most of the time, problems of this nature are all in the exposure
set on the camera. I am not sure what you mean about changing the
contrast. I don't know with out a picture if it was too contrasty
or low contrast.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com
 
While some of the issues you have with the images are probably due to the D100's low contrast default tone curve, keep in mind that you're shooting in an environment that has a very white background (and lots of it). The camera's meter may be fooled into underexposing the shot because of all the white background. Nikon's matrix meter will do better than traditional center weighted ones, but it's not perfect. See http://pages.prodigy.net/ecmorris/tips/snowtip.htm

You won't see this effect as much when shooting print film, since the lab's printing machine will automatically correct your exposure by a few stops.
 
Bob,

I was just looking over the two images you posted. My take on the matter is that

1) the original image is just a tad under exposed with the excpetion of the red channel. In this instance using the cameras meter, it tried balancing the tone of the image more toward grey. That is, it looked at the scene and tried to do the best it could in setting the exposure for the scene. The meter appears to be fooled just a little bit by all the snow which is causing the underexposure. This is causing the snow to look grey and dingy where you know from looking at the original scene that the snow was a nice bright clean white that may have had a blue or maybe a warm tint.

If you were to try this again under the same circumstances, I would add + 1/3 to + 1/2 compensation and your snow should come out white. I own and use a D1X and D1H and when I work over snow, I usually might need to add about +1/3 for the compensation. This depends on if the snow is in bright sun or shade.

2) Cloudy -3 - a fair number of people use this setting becuase of the suggestions of some well known individuals. I am not entirely convinced this setting is ideal for most situations. Generally what it is suppose to do is warm things up in the image. It is my experince that more times then not, it will just give an odd looking yellow/red/orange cast to the image. A lot of this really depends on the color temperature of the light you are in.

This setting my explain why your red channel is on the verge of over exposing. Since I was not there, and I can only get the gist of how sunny or cloudy it was from what I see in the image, I would have set the WB to just Cloudy or maybe set a manual white balance.

From your adjusted image, it seems you saw the snow as a pretty nice powdery white. And your adjustments seemed to have taken the color cast out of the image which was most likely produced by the cloudy -3 setting.

I think the best way to warm an image up is to use a warming filter instead of trying to warm things up with the cloudy -3 setting. I have much better luck and get nicer images using the filter.

So next time, try adding a little + compensation and choose either sunny or cloudy depending on the circumstances. The one thing above all else, is to really get to know how your camera meters in all cicumstances. Once you are at this level, you will automatically know how to compensate for the shortcommings of the meter. No meter is perfect or infallible and no meter can give you perfect exposures in every circumstance.

Another thing you might try to do is start thinking about the sunny f16 rule and also create your self a cloudy rule similar to the sunny f16 rule. Knowing this rule and any derivatives will allow you to know when your meter is not exposing a scene properly. You might also want to get a low cost incident meter for setting expsoure. This is how I work 90% of the time.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com
 
Ken,

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. I think maybe that I'm expecting too much to soon and I DO need to get to know this camera and it's settings from my own experience I guess. I'm going to try your suggestions in the near future. It was a mostly cloudy day and the light was not very good to begin with. Thanks again for the input.
Bob
Bob,

I was just looking over the two images you posted. My take on the
matter is that

1) the original image is just a tad under exposed with the
excpetion of the red channel. In this instance using the cameras
meter, it tried balancing the tone of the image more toward grey.
That is, it looked at the scene and tried to do the best it could
in setting the exposure for the scene. The meter appears to be
fooled just a little bit by all the snow which is causing the
underexposure. This is causing the snow to look grey and dingy
where you know from looking at the original scene that the snow was
a nice bright clean white that may have had a blue or maybe a warm
tint.

If you were to try this again under the same circumstances, I would
add + 1/3 to + 1/2 compensation and your snow should come out
white. I own and use a D1X and D1H and when I work over snow, I
usually might need to add about +1/3 for the compensation. This
depends on if the snow is in bright sun or shade.

2) Cloudy -3 - a fair number of people use this setting becuase of
the suggestions of some well known individuals. I am not entirely
convinced this setting is ideal for most situations. Generally what
it is suppose to do is warm things up in the image. It is my
experince that more times then not, it will just give an odd
looking yellow/red/orange cast to the image. A lot of this really
depends on the color temperature of the light you are in.

This setting my explain why your red channel is on the verge of
over exposing. Since I was not there, and I can only get the gist
of how sunny or cloudy it was from what I see in the image, I would
have set the WB to just Cloudy or maybe set a manual white balance.

From your adjusted image, it seems you saw the snow as a pretty
nice powdery white. And your adjustments seemed to have taken the
color cast out of the image which was most likely produced by the
cloudy -3 setting.

I think the best way to warm an image up is to use a warming filter
instead of trying to warm things up with the cloudy -3 setting. I
have much better luck and get nicer images using the filter.

So next time, try adding a little + compensation and choose either
sunny or cloudy depending on the circumstances. The one thing above
all else, is to really get to know how your camera meters in all
cicumstances. Once you are at this level, you will automatically
know how to compensate for the shortcommings of the meter. No meter
is perfect or infallible and no meter can give you perfect
exposures in every circumstance.

Another thing you might try to do is start thinking about the sunny
f16 rule and also create your self a cloudy rule similar to the
sunny f16 rule. Knowing this rule and any derivatives will allow
you to know when your meter is not exposing a scene properly. You
might also want to get a low cost incident meter for setting
expsoure. This is how I work 90% of the time.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com
 
Thanks for the reply Ken,

I think I just need a little more time to learn this cameras habits.
While some of the issues you have with the images are probably due
to the D100's low contrast default tone curve, keep in mind that
you're shooting in an environment that has a very white background
(and lots of it). The camera's meter may be fooled into
underexposing the shot because of all the white background. Nikon's
matrix meter will do better than traditional center weighted ones,
but it's not perfect. See
http://pages.prodigy.net/ecmorris/tips/snowtip.htm

You won't see this effect as much when shooting print film, since
the lab's printing machine will automatically correct your exposure
by a few stops.
 
Also, you may want to load a custom tone curve using NC3 into your camera. Many people have found the default nikon curve too low in contrast. Do a forum search for "custom tone curve" and you'll find a zillion posts about it as well as links to download curves. The nikonians site also has a fair number of posts about it.

Others claim that using an eyecup can help the D100 "underexposure" problems.
 
Ken,

About NC3, I noticed that when opening a NEF in Elements 2, I get a message saying "This document is in an unsupported color depth. Convert to default color depth?" I read in a thread somewhere that this has to do with the 12 bit depth of NC 3 and that Elements only supports 8 bit. I'm wondering if this will limit me in any way or does it just affect my display? I really can't even think about spending, what is it......$600 for PS7?
Also, you may want to load a custom tone curve using NC3 into your
camera. Many people have found the default nikon curve too low in
contrast. Do a forum search for "custom tone curve" and you'll find
a zillion posts about it as well as links to download curves. The
nikonians site also has a fair number of posts about it.

Others claim that using an eyecup can help the D100 "underexposure"
problems.
 
The camera seems to do that when there are a lot of reflective surfaces as it is one of the things that helps to keep highlights from clipping. I know many people choose diferent ways around this but they're not always as ideal as just adjusting the curves on the pictures that pop out of the camera.

Keep in mind though if you choose the custom curves approach, you can only store one curve in the camera at a time so you better have the right one loaded or those snowy scenes of yours will lose detail and look somewhat blindingly bright and destroy the image.

Also, please note I'm not an expert on this I've just gotten use to the camera over the past 4 months and am pretty well oriented with how it behaves and how to keep the thing in check.

--
http://www.pbase.com/elterrible
I just took my new D100 for it's first real outing. I took a bunch
of shots of my kids sledding on this recent snow here in the
northeast. I shot mostly in shutter priority as they sped past me
on their way down the hill. I had the WB set for Cloudy -3 which I
read was a favorite of alot of people to use all the time. I was
shooting JPG, fine and sharpening was set to high. I don't mind
doing some post processing and after shooting some raw the other
day and playing with my trial of Capture 3, I definately see the
benefits of that. My question is, today was just a test to see what
kind of results I could get if I should feel like NOT doing any
processing afterwards. My wife wanted some quick pics to send off
to relatives so I tried to set up the D100 so I wouldn't have to do
anything to them later. I was quite disappointed to see how they
came out. I'm using Elements 2 and I found myself sitting down to
do some quick "auto levels" and USM. They especially seemed to need
the levels tweaked quite a bit. The color seemed good but why so
drab in the contrast department? I used an older Non-D type 28-85mm
3.5-4.5 which was always a pretty sharp lens. I'm still getting to
know my D100 and I'm wondering what settings would give a decent
result when I just don't feel like or have the time to do the post
processing. Thanks in advance, Bob
 
What are the thoughts about using fill flash (maybe -1 or 2 stops) on these images in the snow on a cloudy day?
besto
Keep in mind though if you choose the custom curves approach, you
can only store one curve in the camera at a time so you better have
the right one loaded or those snowy scenes of yours will lose
detail and look somewhat blindingly bright and destroy the image.

Also, please note I'm not an expert on this I've just gotten use to
the camera over the past 4 months and am pretty well oriented with
how it behaves and how to keep the thing in check.

--
http://www.pbase.com/elterrible
I just took my new D100 for it's first real outing. I took a bunch
of shots of my kids sledding on this recent snow here in the
northeast. I shot mostly in shutter priority as they sped past me
on their way down the hill. I had the WB set for Cloudy -3 which I
read was a favorite of alot of people to use all the time. I was
shooting JPG, fine and sharpening was set to high. I don't mind
doing some post processing and after shooting some raw the other
day and playing with my trial of Capture 3, I definately see the
benefits of that. My question is, today was just a test to see what
kind of results I could get if I should feel like NOT doing any
processing afterwards. My wife wanted some quick pics to send off
to relatives so I tried to set up the D100 so I wouldn't have to do
anything to them later. I was quite disappointed to see how they
came out. I'm using Elements 2 and I found myself sitting down to
do some quick "auto levels" and USM. They especially seemed to need
the levels tweaked quite a bit. The color seemed good but why so
drab in the contrast department? I used an older Non-D type 28-85mm
3.5-4.5 which was always a pretty sharp lens. I'm still getting to
know my D100 and I'm wondering what settings would give a decent
result when I just don't feel like or have the time to do the post
processing. Thanks in advance, Bob
 
Hi Ken,

I wasn't sure of the correct way to attach an image so I did it by
creating a gallery here:
http://www.pbase.com/bobfromny/bobfromnysgallery The file
Irene.jpg is obviously the one I attempted to adjust. I appreciate
the advice, thanks!
When there is a lot of light on sand and snow and I want to catch the subject well I use spot metering. It will probably make the rest of the photo overexposed but the subject will be OK.

Other solution custom curves, or less contrast. All this is part of the pleasure and the pain of a SRL camera

--
Regards
Gabriele Sartori
 

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