Crop mode on A7RIV vs ASP-C camera.

[Cudacke Dees]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

The imaging quality difference is too similar in comparison to all the other differences of A7RIV vs A6500/A6400. It is neglectable.

 

[SilvanBromide]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

The imaging quality difference is too similar in comparison to all the other differences of A7RIV vs A6500/A6400. It is neglectable.

As I noted earlier in the thread, if the a7Riv does not have an AA filter (the a7Riii doesn't, so the iv probably won't either) and given that the a6500 (and, I assume, the a6400) do, the difference is unlikely to be negligible.

--
Former Canon, Nikon and Pentax user.
Online Gallery: https://500px.com/raycologon

 

[engbert]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

The handling and controls of the a6400 are quite different from the recent 7 series. If you use both a lot this would not be a problem, but for the occasional shooter it can make a difference.

I find I use my a6400 very little because of this.

 

[aknyc]

You should not buy the A7RIV to use in crop mode only.

Like few said before the quality of the new sensor are much superior then the a6500.

Consider looking at lens selections. A7 series has more quality lenses, the a6500 lenses are slow and often not that good.

If you don't need 42-61MP just consider the a7III.

Adapting lenses from A7 series into a6500 series is not a good idea, they often don't perform as well on the smaller cameras

 

[lélé777004]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

It is very likely that the Sony A7R IV sensor 'full frame' sensor is closely related to the APS-C sensor that you can find in the Fujifilm X-T3 and X-T30 (albeit Fujifilm's version has been 'personalized', including a different color filters arrangement (X-Trans)) and that you may find in a potential future Sony APS-C camera.

So, yes, from a sensor perspective the Sony A7R IV should perform as well as its most recent APS-C pars. If you plan to use the very same lens on your 'full frame' and your APS-C body, that might be a good substitute.

That said, I don't think it completely replaces a dedicated APS-C system yet. APS-C lenses are designed with different requirements and most recent APS-C cameras (Fujifilm and maybe Sony soon) still has an edge in terms of speed. For how long? that's another story...

 

[dcstep]

..

It is very likely that the Sony A7R IV sensor 'full frame' sensor is closely related to the APS-C sensor that you can find in the Fujifilm X-T3 and X-T30 (albeit Fujifilm's version has been 'personalized', including a different color filters arrangement (X-Trans)) and that you may find in a potential future Sony APS-C camera.

So, yes, from a sensor perspective the Sony A7R IV should perform as well as its most recent APS-C pars. If you plan to use the very same lens on your 'full frame' and your APS-C body, that might be a good substitute.

That said, I don't think it completely replaces a dedicated APS-C system yet. APS-C lenses are designed with different requirements and most recent APS-C cameras (Fujifilm and maybe Sony soon) still has an edge in terms of speed. For how long? that's another story...

Trouble is, most makers are loath to invest in making a super telephoto lens designed exclusively for APS-C. I'd love to have a 600/f4 designed for APS-C, with image quality rivaling the FE 600mm f/4 GM OSS. It ain't going to happen, because that market is already small. To get comparable quality, you're going to spend almost the same $12,000 and then you can't use it on a FF body.

 

[NomadingNick]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but since I am stuck at home just out of curiosity if anyone has noticed the difference of AF between A7R m4 in crop mode vs the a6600/a6400/a6100 (2019 bodies)?

a7RIV: 567 PDAF pts/425 contrast pts covering 99% height / 74% width of sensor

a6600: 425 PDAF pts/425 contrast pts covering 84% of the sensor

a7RIV in crop mode: 325 PDAF with full frame lens, 247 PDAF with APSC lens.

but in crop mode a7R mark II will use, in theory, 100% of the sensor. while the APSC bodies will still only use 84% of the sensor however with more P & CDAF points.

Full frame lens: 325 PDAF 100% coverage vs 425 PDAF 84% coverage on ASPC

APSC lens: 247 PDAF 100% coverage vs 425 PDAF 84% coverage on APSC

So, which one is better at AF in actual use?

My next comparison will be if I mix Bermuda grass seeds with Fescue seeds in 25% shaded area vs 75% shaded area, which will grow faster? Also which will sprout more weeds?

 

[burning1rr]

Trying to wrap my amateur hobbyist head around something and am confused. I have tried researching and get a little confused on pixel size, low light shooting and other benefits of using either an ASP-C camera such as an A6500 vs the crop mode of the A7RIV. So question is will using the crop mode of the A7RIV with 26 megapixels give me the same picture quality as a dedicated ASP-C camera such as the A6400,6500? Would I be losing or gaining anything by using either one?

"Crop" applies to framing. "Reach" comes from pixel density.

If your goal is to take a wide shot, you can treat a 18mm lens on crop like it was a 28mm lens on full-frame.

If your goal is to take a photo of a distant bird, you can't treat a 300mm lens on crop as if it was a 450mm lens on full-frame. Instead, you look at the pixel density and resolving power of the lens.

The A7R4 has the pixel density of of an APS-C camera. So, it can resolve like an APS-C camera whether or not you use crop mode.

 

[Tristimulus]

Thanks everyone. Well ordered the A7Mk4.

Happy you!

Really excited and hoping it doesn’t have too many bugs when released. Lol. I figure it will be like having two cameras, two different tools built in to one body. We shall see.

Ok - to put it simple you will gain about 10 % increase in resolution over ordinary 24MP APS-C cameras when using the same lens (note: when using the same lens).

The resolution of the A7IV is the same wether using crop more or not when using the same lens (the image sensor does not change) but the field of view will obviously change.

Just use the camera in full frame mode all the time and crop in post. The resolution of the final image will just be similar to an APS-C in camera crop.

Now - get outside and have some rewarding fun! ;-)

 

[SuperKirby]

Sorry, had to revive the thread.

According to this data: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6600,Sony ILCE-7RM4(APS-C)

a6600: Low light ISO 2929

a7R IV (crop mode): Low light ISO 2336

a7R IV: Low light: ISO 4744

Seems substantial.

The a6600 outperforms the a7R IV Crop Mode in low light at ISOs 400 to 12800. Can anyone confirm this with real world usage? Why is it so different? I know numbers are numbers, that's why I was wondering if anyone had real life results to what the human eyes see to see if the numbers actually match up.

If you have, what was it like in both day time and low light ISOs?

 

[ChristianHass]

Sorry, had to revive the thread.

According to this data: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6600,Sony ILCE-7RM4(APS-C)

a6600: Low light ISO 2929

a7R IV (crop mode): Low light ISO 2336

a7R IV: Low light: ISO 4744

Seems substantial.

The a6600 outperforms the a7R IV Crop Mode in low light at ISOs 400 to 12800. Can anyone confirm this with real world usage? Why is it so different? I know numbers are numbers, that's why I was wondering if anyone had real life results to what the human eyes see to see if the numbers actually match up.

If you have, what was it like in both day time and low light ISOs?

ISO 2336 to 2929 is less than half a stop, it doesn't seem substantial to me and it could be sample variation or test variation.

2336 to 4744 is pretty much what I'd expect going from APS-C to full frame.

 

[sybersitizen]

According to this data: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6600,Sony ILCE-7RM4(APS-C)

a6600: Low light ISO 2929

a7R IV (crop mode): Low light ISO 2336

a7R IV: Low light: ISO 4744

Seems substantial.

Substantial to some, insubstantial to others.

The a6600 outperforms the a7R IV Crop Mode in low light at ISOs 400 to 12800. Can anyone confirm this with real world usage?

The A7RIV has been identified as slightly disappointing in that regard compared to its direct predecessors.

Why is it so different?

You could ask the same question about all of the related cameras. There are variations among the published figures for all of them:

 

[SuperKirby]

Sorry, had to revive the thread.

According to this data: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6600,Sony ILCE-7RM4(APS-C)

a6600: Low light ISO 2929

a7R IV (crop mode): Low light ISO 2336

a7R IV: Low light: ISO 4744

Seems substantial.

The a6600 outperforms the a7R IV Crop Mode in low light at ISOs 400 to 12800. Can anyone confirm this with real world usage? Why is it so different? I know numbers are numbers, that's why I was wondering if anyone had real life results to what the human eyes see to see if the numbers actually match up.

If you have, what was it like in both day time and low light ISOs?

ISO 2336 to 2929 is less than half a stop, it doesn't seem substantial to me and it could be sample variation or test variation.

2336 to 4744 is pretty much what I'd expect going from APS-C to full frame.

thanks! i'm a newb

Why is it less though? Shouldn't it be very close? Is it because it has higher MP in crop mode?

 

[SuperKirby]

According to this data: https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony ILCE-6600,Sony ILCE-7RM4(APS-C)

a6600: Low light ISO 2929

a7R IV (crop mode): Low light ISO 2336

a7R IV: Low light: ISO 4744

Seems substantial.

Substantial to some, insubstantial to others.

The a6600 outperforms the a7R IV Crop Mode in low light at ISOs 400 to 12800. Can anyone confirm this with real world usage?

The A7RIV has been identified as slightly disappointing in that regard compared to its direct predecessors.

Why is it so different?

You could ask the same question about all of the related cameras. There are variations among the published figures for all of them:

Thank you! Very informative.