Converting X3F files to DNG and use LR2 or keep as X3F and use SPP

[NorthPentax]

Hi.

I'm learning LR2. Earlier I have used ACR and PS.

Is there a big difference between developing the RAW file in LR2 or SPP?

I have Pentax as my main system, I get DNG files right out of the camera.

I also want my RAW files from SD-14 to be in DNG, is there a difference between X3F RAW and DNG?
Is there any difference in IQ?

 

[Marfalkov]

Hello!

In my experience the ACR (PS, LR) sometimes simply not see the whole dynamic range of the foveon captured images. Everything else is ok. lol. )

Hi.

I'm learning LR2. Earlier I have used ACR and PS.

Is there a big difference between developing the RAW file in LR2 or SPP?

I have Pentax as my main system, I get DNG files right out of the
camera.
I also want my RAW files from SD-14 to be in DNG, is there a
difference between X3F RAW and DNG?
Is there any difference in IQ?

--
Kind Regards,
Marfalkov

 

[NorthPentax]

--
Thanks.

I guess I will save all my good SD-14 RAW files in one folder, just in case.

 

[Marfalkov]

Sure, who know maybe the next acr give us a better solution for x3f files. Anyway i use LR to catalog my sd14 files, b/c of the ease of use and fast thumbnail preview.

Happy New Year!

--
Thanks.

I guess I will save all my good SD-14 RAW files in one folder, just
in case.

--
Kind Regards,
Marfalkov

 

[NorthPentax]

Happy New Year :-D

Too bad SPP is so crappy in use.

I have converted some X3F files to DNG. I think LR2 does a great job with SD-14 files.

 

[Kendall Helmstetter Gelner]

NorthPentax wrote:
entax as my main system, I get DNG files right out of the

camera.
I also want my RAW files from SD-14 to be in DNG, is there a
difference between X3F RAW and DNG?
Is there any difference in IQ?

When you convert an X3F to DNG, it's basically deciding at that time how to "mix" the three photosite layers in the X3F file. Due to the way the DNG format is specified, it actually cannot hold the real X3F raw data (at least not in any way that any DNG reader would know what do do with).

That can have an impact on color, so after that point you essentially have the color characteristics of whatever conversion was used. In practical terms that means conversion to DNG today is basically the same as using the ACR engine for the total conversion.

So DNG will work, but keep in mind you should always retain your RAW files in case better converters arrive (conversion quality has improved over the years).

--
---> Kendall
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[NorthPentax]

ACR/LR can't manage the Foveon colors properly?

If I convert the X3F file to DNG, that's like working on a 4,6Mpix bayer sensor image instead of a 4,6Mp Foveon sensor image?

Luckily I don't have any goodt pictures yet.

What about PP X3F files in SPP, save them as 8 or 16 bit TIFFs for further use and PP in LR/PS?

 

[SandyF]

Happy New Year :-D

Too bad SPP is so crappy in use.

SPP is actually a lot more powerful and useful RAW processor for X3F images than some new users give it credit for. BTW a manual is on the software program, under the Help menu.

Good advice from one of my Sigma 'guru's'.... learn SPP then branch out to other tastes [e.g. processors]

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[SandyF]

ACR/LR can't manage the Foveon colors properly?

most of the time SPP handles the X3F files easily and 'best' but true sometimes ACR does 'better' especially with tricky light situations or red, especially floral and luminous reds, glowing reds. You can more easily isolate and adjust the red channel if the red needs adjusting. Sometimes SDx/DP1 reds are too pink and I want to bump up the redness.

But be sure, very sure, that you're using at least ACR4.1 at a minimum as your software plug-in.

ACR4 will open and 'process' the X3F RAWs, but it does a TERRIBLE job. ACR4.1 released in May 2007 is the first ACR which properly handles the X3F RAW. I'm now using ACR4.6 myself in Photoshop Elements v5, ie with the ACR4.6 plug in. Sometimes I'll use SPP by preference, sometimes PSE5/ACR4.6, depending upon the photo and how I want to handle it in other software.

You can save the X3F RAW processed to a JPEG or a TIFF, then if desired work it further in your other software. I usually just save as JPEG; sometimes TIFF if I want to do a relatively large print, although I've been printing on my Epson R1800 up to 11x14 from the medium size JPEG save option in SPP!

There are many different workflows, different SDx/DP1 users use different workflows. But truly it does pay to become familar with Sigma Photo Pro.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[NorthPentax]

Thanks. Maybe I should read up on the SPP software.

I save in TIFF's or PSD's after PP, only use jpg for web, email and when I send pictures to be printed.

I have ACR 4,6, the newest version for PS CS3. But I got LR2 on X-mas day. Upgraded to LR2.2 and from this point on I'm will only use LR, not bridge/ACR. PS CS3 will be used for more advanced PP.

 

[SandyF]

What Sigma Photo Pro doesn't have is temperature and tint sliders; they're useful in ACR and it would be an advantage to have them in SPP. Instead one needs to use the colorwheel, which takes a bit of getting used to. It becomes more intuitive to hit the combinations right as one gets more familiar with it. For example I don't always go by what the eyedropper tool gives (first) when I seek a neutral point.

First I get the white balance set to my satisfaction; it's under the Edit menu in SPP2.5. Then the colorwheel, only then the sliders.

An example re white balance, when shooting a preset, rather than custom white balance. I shot maybe 11GBs in Arizona mostly in sunlight white balance. Then I decided that the SD14 I'm using now seemed easier to edit from auto white balance than sunlight white balance.... sunlight wb was too yellow in general. So I batch changed pretty much all the RAWs over to auto white balance. But at least shooting in sunlight wb gave me consistency in wb through the particular scenes/light.

And be sure to read and understand from the manual what the 3 bullets are and do: X3F, auto, and custom.

Another point I mentioned above is that you can pull apart the color channels for adjustment easily in ACR... for example if I want to adjust my red, or my blue or my yellow solely.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[NorthPentax]

I started to read about SPP.

In the metadata/exif in SPP it says that the image size is 2640*1760*3, in LR it only say 2640*1760. I checked with a picture in LR2 and in SPP, the dynamic range seems larger in SPP.

I have some reading to do, thanks again for all your help.

 

[OnlyRealPixel]

I guess the raw full color info of x3f is not in dng's, but dcraw(ufraw gimp plugin) notes that Bayer interpolation is not there. We might get an equal black and white!

ufraw has a temp slider, and custom white balance comes through somehow. ufraw remembers settings for saturation, curves(2 kinds), black point, etc, which can make a batch easier.

I have not upgraded SD14 bios yet, so I am still seeing a 10MB file when I use custom white balance instead of a 4MB file with AWB.

 

[Ann Chaikin]

I find that the dynamic range and color is much better almost all the time with SPP. I have other cameras - Canon and Panasonic - and LR2 works very well with them. With my Foveon cameras it seems too contrasty and not as rich in color.
--
Ann Chaikin



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[light_reaction]

A DNG from a Foveon X3f is nothing better than a tiff file...IMHO they'd better put up with different file formats for the long run and do something useful..like proper color management in LR including soft proofing. I think they currently don't because they speculate that all browsers will sooner or later employ color management anyways and that thus they don't have to do stuff like soft proofing but what they are missing is the increasing number of publishing methods and displays. Cell phones, netbooks, Laptops and whatever comes next. Never will all these different devices have color managed browsers. Plus, what about preparing images for not only different displays but also portable printers, printers at work, an in-store printer and a book printing service?

IMO what LR needs is a proper "output" module which has separate subsections for print and display and which provides subsection-specific soft proofing.

O.
--
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[BobNL]

I'm learning LR2. Earlier I have used ACR and PS.

Is there a big difference between developing the RAW file in LR2 or SPP?

I have Pentax as my main system, I get DNG files right out of the
camera.
I also want my RAW files from SD-14 to be in DNG, is there a
difference between X3F RAW and DNG?
Is there any difference in IQ?

Why would you want to have them in DNG? You can do exactly the same with x3f as with DNG in LR2. I use LR2 to sort, store, manage all x3fs. Often also develop them there. But if I want I can just as well develop them in SPP (not possible with DNG).

--
Bob

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Love and be loved in return.

 

[Joseph_Lam]

Why would you want to have them in DNG? You can do exactly the same
with x3f as with DNG in LR2. I use LR2 to sort, store, manage all
x3fs. Often also develop them there. But if I want I can just as well
develop them in SPP (not possible with DNG).

--
Bob

It may not be important for many ppl but one advantage of using DNG is that it enables the use of self-made SD14/DP1 camera profiles created using Adobe DNG Profile Editor and a ColorCheck chart.

Joseph

 

[Joseph_Lam]

A DNG from a Foveon X3f is nothing better than a tiff file...IMHO

I think by default DNG preserves the original data. The converter has a option to have the data converted to linear RGB before saving to DNG which will indeed make it similar to a tiff.

Joseph

 

[light_reaction]

A DNG from a Foveon X3f is nothing better than a tiff file...IMHO

I think by default DNG preserves the original data. The converter has
a option to have the data converted to linear RGB before saving to
DNG which will indeed make it similar to a tiff.

Exactly - amd for DNGs from Foveon X3fs, linear DNG is not an option but the only possibility. Which is why DNG as a file format does not make sense for Foveon data.

O.
--
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[brazile]

It may not be important for many ppl but one advantage of using DNG
is that it enables the use of self-made SD14/DP1 camera profiles
created using Adobe DNG Profile Editor and a ColorCheck chart.

I seem to recall that LR2 won't use profiles from SD14s once created, am I remembering incorrectly? Haven't tried it myself yet, but I saw a thread about this, and thought that Z confirmed this...?

Robert