Compact rumors?

[Keithpictures]

There’s always a steady flow of MILC / DSLM rumors from the usual sources (based on brand), and reliable upgrades to these lines.

But what about for compact cameras? The Sony RX series gets updated reliably. Any rumblings on competition?

I’d personally love to see Panasonic release a ZS300 to rival the RX100 7 (faster lens, tilt screen, snappier), or for Canon to update a GX5 with a longer lens, or finally update the G3X to better tackle the RX10 4 crowd. Nikon could combine their A1000 with their classic A by outfitting the pocket superzoom with a one-inch sensor..

Basically, I’m craving a pocket superzoom camera, and wondering where news might come from in this field. The new Canon Powershot Zoom is a very cool and intriguing idea, but I’d prefer one-inch sensors at minimum. The tech is there. Why aren’t more companies (besides Sony) stepping up?

The Panasonic TZ200 has a 360mm equiv reach - brilliant. EVF, screen, 4K, pocketable, and not-terrible menus and handling. It’s also not much larger than the new Canon. It could use an update, and competition.

 

[robbo2]

I would like to see some of these cameras, too, but can they be profitable? Will enough people buy them and not simply rely on their smartphones? Compare the cameras on smartphones in 2013, when the the first Sony compacts with one inch sensors were coming out, with the cameras on the latest iPhones and Samsung Galaxy phones.

 

[Keithpictures]

I would like to see some of these cameras, too, but can they be profitable? Will enough people buy them and not simply rely on their smartphones? Compare the cameras on smartphones in 2013, when the the first Sony compacts with one inch sensors were coming out, with the cameras on the latest iPhones and Samsung Galaxy phones.

I do understand that many smartphones (specifically from Samsung) are featuring super-telephoto zoom ranges, but as an iPhone user, I can say that this is a major reason to continue looking at the dedicated camera market.

I use a Fuji X100V for my daily photography because I value the IQ and shooting experience it offers, even though my iPhone 11 Pro also offers a "normal" FoV. But the iPhone tops out at 52mm, and I just don't want to carry around a dedicated ILC with large zoom lens on it.

The bridge category (especially the Sony RX10) is still doing well, because people do want that super-tele range, along with substantial IQ improvement over a 1/2.3" smartphone sensor. So IMO, the Sony RX100 series and the Panasonic ZS/TZ series remain interesting, especially for their zoom ranges at 200mm and above.

Smartphones will have a hard time matching this for another few years, I think. There's still room for these two brands specifically to release something even more impressive, like 400mm on a one-inch sensor that fits in your pocket. If they can seamlessly connect it to the smartphone, that will be very appealing to enough people, I would think. I personally am more interested in that than I am in a crop-sensor or FF camera with 70-300mm zoom lens, which is a huge increase in size and commitment.

 

[John Gellings]

But what about for compact cameras? The Sony RX series gets updated reliably. Any rumblings on competition?

Unfortunately, no. I am always looking for rumors because I'd love to have a pocket camera with a big sensor and a 40-50mm lens. Something like the Ricoh GR but with a normal lens instead of a wide angle. I haven't seen anything anywhere.

 

[justmeMN]

The trend in compact camera development is pretty bad.




Graphic created by CIPA

 

[Keithpictures]

But what about for compact cameras? The Sony RX series gets updated reliably. Any rumblings on competition?

Unfortunately, no. I am always looking for rumors because I'd love to have a pocket camera with a big sensor and a 40-50mm lens. Something like the Ricoh GR but with a normal lens instead of a wide angle. I haven't seen anything anywhere.

Same. I'm realizing I really enjoy fixed-lens cameras over ILCs for the way they can maximize compactness and quality. The X100V is a great example, and suits me for its wide-normal FoV. I also would love for it to have a 50mm AoV, and it does with the digital teleconverter. I'd love for that tech to be further improved.

My question lately is: how small/short can a longer/tele lens get on a camera? I'd love for the X100/X70 format to actually have an 85mm or 120mm lens on it! The closest I can find right now is the Panasonic ZS200, which outfits a 24-360mm into a pocket - not too shabby. But of course it has a long zoom barrel when turned on. I don't love that.

 

[justmeMN]

Same. I'm realizing I really enjoy fixed-lens cameras over ILCs for the way they can maximize compactness and quality.

The Canon M200 has a tiny body, but the lenses stick out more than those of a fixed-lens compact.

 

[Keithpictures]

The trend in compact camera development is pretty bad.


Graphic created by CIPA

Eesh, yeah that's awful.

It also highlights a failure in imagination, or just trepidation. The GoPro line is going strong, and gets more competition from DJI and Insta360. DJI in general is doing a lot of things, but all with wide angles and tiny sensors.

I like the creativity of the new Canon PowerShot Zoom; more products like that could find a market, I'd imagine. It's not like smartphones can do all of that.

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[John Gellings]

But what about for compact cameras? The Sony RX series gets updated reliably. Any rumblings on competition?

Unfortunately, no. I am always looking for rumors because I'd love to have a pocket camera with a big sensor and a 40-50mm lens. Something like the Ricoh GR but with a normal lens instead of a wide angle. I haven't seen anything anywhere.

Same. I'm realizing I really enjoy fixed-lens cameras over ILCs for the way they can maximize compactness and quality. The X100V is a great example, and suits me for its wide-normal FoV. I also would love for it to have a 50mm AoV, and it does with the digital teleconverter. I'd love for that tech to be further improved.

My question lately is: how small/short can a longer/tele lens get on a camera? I'd love for the X100/X70 format to actually have an 85mm or 120mm lens on it!

I’ll take the 50 and 85mm models.

The closest I can find right now is the Panasonic ZS200, which outfits a 24-360mm into a pocket - not too shabby. But of course it has a long zoom barrel when turned on. I don't love that.

 

[Howard V]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

 

[John Gellings]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

Unfortunately they taken over this space but I hate them ergonomically and once you need to print large they cannot they suck. In great light they are passable.

 

[Mark B.]

The trend in compact camera development is pretty bad.


Graphic created by CIPA

Eesh, yeah that's awful.

It also highlights a failure in imagination, or just trepidation. The GoPro line is going strong, and gets more competition from DJI and Insta360. DJI in general is doing a lot of things, but all with wide angles and tiny sensors.

I like the creativity of the new Canon PowerShot Zoom; more products like that could find a market, I'd imagine. It's not like smartphones can do all of that.

No, but the majority of users that might have carried a compact cam now have a smartphone with multiple lenses, and it's "good enough" that they don't want to carry a separate device.

 

[John Gellings]

The trend in compact camera development is pretty bad.


Graphic created by CIPA

Eesh, yeah that's awful.

It also highlights a failure in imagination, or just trepidation. The GoPro line is going strong, and gets more competition from DJI and Insta360. DJI in general is doing a lot of things, but all with wide angles and tiny sensors.

I like the creativity of the new Canon PowerShot Zoom; more products like that could find a market, I'd imagine. It's not like smartphones can do all of that.

No, but the majority of users that might have carried a compact cam now have a smartphone with multiple lenses, and it's "good enough" that they don't want to carry a separate device.

Right, but camera companies shouldn't be thinking of those casual users. They need to make high quality, premium compact cameras with large sensors for serious photographers. There still is a market for that.

--
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Instagram = @johngellings0 and @nycrandomjg

 

[Howard V]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

Unfortunately they taken over this space but I hate them ergonomically and once you need to print large they cannot they suck. In great light they are passable.

1. A new generation has no problem with the ergonomics, because they're handling them all day. 2. Hardly anyone prints large. 3. They're gaining in low light because of advanced A.I. Very recent low light modes are much better. I somewhat agree with your assessments. But as a consumer group younger people don't, and they are driving the future of imaging.

 

[John Gellings]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

Unfortunately they taken over this space but I hate them ergonomically and once you need to print large they cannot they suck. In great light they are passable.

1. A new generation has no problem with the ergonomics, because they're handling them all day. 2. Hardly anyone prints large. 3. They're gaining in low light because of advanced A.I. Very recent low light modes are much better. I somewhat agree with your assessments. But as a consumer group younger people don't, and they are driving the future of imaging.

Like I said... serious photographers. People who make books, show in galleries and museums, and those who aspire to do so. This is a niche who still use real cameras generally speaking. And that’s not be even getting into the type of photographers in which they just love cameras. Cell phones are mainstream just like Kodak 126/110/Disc compacts in the 60/70/80s, cheap 35mm p&s in the 90s and small sensor digital cameras later on. Yet, people still bought more expensive specialty cameras and still do. I still want a high quality large sensor compact. I doubt I’m alone.

--
https://www.johngellings.com
Instagram = @johngellings0 and @nycrandomjg

 

[Howard V]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

Unfortunately they taken over this space but I hate them ergonomically and once you need to print large they cannot they suck. In great light they are passable.

1. A new generation has no problem with the ergonomics, because they're handling them all day. 2. Hardly anyone prints large. 3. They're gaining in low light because of advanced A.I. Very recent low light modes are much better. I somewhat agree with your assessments. But as a consumer group younger people don't, and they are driving the future of imaging.

Like I said... serious photographers. People who make books, show in galleries and museums, and those who aspire to do so. This is a niche who still use real cameras generally speaking. And that’s not be even getting into the type of photographers in which they just love cameras. Cell phones are mainstream just like Kodak 126/110/Disc compacts in the 60/70/80s, cheap 35mm p&s in the 90s and small sensor digital cameras later on. Yet, people still bought more expensive specialty cameras and still do. I still want a high quality large sensor compact. I doubt I’m alone.

Agreed. The word "niche" is important, though. It could drive prices up and choices down. We'll see.

 

[John Gellings]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

Unfortunately they taken over this space but I hate them ergonomically and once you need to print large they cannot they suck. In great light they are passable.

1. A new generation has no problem with the ergonomics, because they're handling them all day. 2. Hardly anyone prints large. 3. They're gaining in low light because of advanced A.I. Very recent low light modes are much better. I somewhat agree with your assessments. But as a consumer group younger people don't, and they are driving the future of imaging.

Like I said... serious photographers. People who make books, show in galleries and museums, and those who aspire to do so. This is a niche who still use real cameras generally speaking. And that’s not be even getting into the type of photographers in which they just love cameras. Cell phones are mainstream just like Kodak 126/110/Disc compacts in the 60/70/80s, cheap 35mm p&s in the 90s and small sensor digital cameras later on. Yet, people still bought more expensive specialty cameras and still do. I still want a high quality large sensor compact. I doubt I’m alone.

Agreed. The word "niche" is important, though. It could drive prices up and choices down. We'll see.

Could? It already has...

 

[Howard V]

Phone cameras are gaining on you.

Unfortunately they taken over this space but I hate them ergonomically and once you need to print large they cannot they suck. In great light they are passable.

1. A new generation has no problem with the ergonomics, because they're handling them all day. 2. Hardly anyone prints large. 3. They're gaining in low light because of advanced A.I. Very recent low light modes are much better. I somewhat agree with your assessments. But as a consumer group younger people don't, and they are driving the future of imaging.

Like I said... serious photographers. People who make books, show in galleries and museums, and those who aspire to do so. This is a niche who still use real cameras generally speaking. And that’s not be even getting into the type of photographers in which they just love cameras. Cell phones are mainstream just like Kodak 126/110/Disc compacts in the 60/70/80s, cheap 35mm p&s in the 90s and small sensor digital cameras later on. Yet, people still bought more expensive specialty cameras and still do. I still want a high quality large sensor compact. I doubt I’m alone.

Agreed. The word "niche" is important, though. It could drive prices up and choices down. We'll see.

Could? It already has...

 

[bastibe]

As much as I love my LX100, I completely understand its dubious value proposition to most people. Modern smartphones adequately cover the normal range of 24-70 (or thereabouts), and why carry a camera if you can do the same thing with less fuss on the phone?

I actually compared the image quality of my LX100 to my Pixel 2 smartphone recently, and they are very closely matched. My Pixel phone lacks a zoom lens of course, but other phones do provide that.

Of course I still love my little LX100 and vastly prefer it over my phone. In fact I think I would pay serious money for a new LX100 III with weather sealing and a faster zoom speed. Then again, I didn't upgrade to the LX100 II, not even now that prices have fallen. There's an insistent voice in the back of my head, saying that this kind of money would be better spent on a new ILC body or a new lens. If that new compact can't even rouse me, a self-proclaimed fan of the LX100, then I don't see how it could be a big success in the broader market.

And what is more, it took me some serious soul searching to even consider "downgrading" to the LX100 from my "superior" Fuji. Perhaps that is at least the fault of marketing, which incessantly touts Full Frame as the one true choice. Perhaps a more even-handed marketing might attract more enthusiasm for compacts. But as it stands, I can't conceive of a bright future for them. Regretfully.

 

[davev8]

There’s always a steady flow of MILC / DSLM rumors from the usual sources (based on brand), and reliable upgrades to these lines.

But what about for compact cameras? The Sony RX series gets updated reliably. Any rumblings on competition?

I’d personally love to see Panasonic release a ZS300 to rival the RX100 7 (faster lens, tilt screen, snappier), or for Canon to update a GX5 with a longer lens, or finally update the G3X to better tackle the RX10 4 crowd. Nikon could combine their A1000 with their classic A by outfitting the pocket superzoom with a one-inch sensor..

unfortunately the law of physics dictate if you take a pocket superzoom and prt a 1 inch sensor in it it will be no longer be poketable

Basically, I’m craving a pocket superzoom camera, and wondering where news might come from in this field. The new Canon Powershot Zoom is a very cool and intriguing idea, but I’d prefer one-inch sensors at minimum. The tech is there. Why aren’t more companies (besides Sony) stepping up?

The Panasonic TZ200 has a 360mm equiv reach - brilliant. EVF, screen, 4K, pocketable, and not-terrible menus and handling. It’s also not much larger than the new Canon. It could use an update, and competition.