CMYK Output of Digital

[Russell Stewart]

Hi all,

Again, all the information is much appreciated. Thanks.

The reason I asked is because I'm getting ready to buy a digital
SLR and I'm trying to decide between a Fuji S2 and a Kodak 14N. So
to rephrase my question:

I assume that you have Nikon lenses at this stage and that is why you are not considering Canon?

Assuming a photo with a lot of fine detail, what would be the
maximum offset printed size (150 line screen) you could get out of
these cameras? Please take into account that many people report
that the S2 has better resolution than its 6 megapixels would

Depends... you will be able to produce A3 300ppi (for use at 150 lpi) all day long. Beyond that it will depend on your image and your upsampling technique, given a suitable image you will be able to go much larger.

Having said that, in my 20 years doing photography and digital pre-press I have never needed to provide an image bigger than A3. Many of my my A3 repros have been A4s scaled up in the design package (ie in Freehand not in PS) and they have looked great!

Generally, if I require a size larger than A3 it is not for offset printing but for a poster printer and these only require 150ppi, so once again an A3 is big enough.

Russell

 

[jtgraphics]

Hi all,

To those of you who have had your digital files reproduced on a
CMYK printing press, what do you think of some publications
insistance on a minimum 300dpi original (at the printed size) with
no interpolation allowed?

One poster here said that CMYK printed output is a different beast
all-together than the results we might achieve at home on a good
printer, and that 300dpi is necessary to achieve good-looking
results.

Thanks much,

john

What is really needed is if you're really going to press you find out what the line screen is going to be on the film 150, 175 200 higher? from the sound of it 150 you go ask. 300 dpi is optimal for 150 line screen. As a rule, you should double the line screen to determine your optimal dpi setting for scans and photographs. 300 is a safe number regardless...
As for converting RGB to CYMK:

Always convert your Photoshop files to CMYK! Your files will be printed on a CMYK press. An RGB file may print correctly on your color laser printer, but it does not translate correctly on the RIP. RGB files print out black & white when output to a Linotronic Imagesetter.
File Formats:

Use TIFF use TIFF (LZW compression off) or EPS (binary) files only! Other formats such as JPEG, PICT, etc., have mixed results or fail to print altogether when output to our Linotronic Imagesetters.
Dot Gain:

If you're really picky ask what kind of dot gain may occur and adjust you're file for it.
--
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
Nikon D100
Sigma AF 17-35mm EX f2.8D
Nikkor AF 28-105 3.5-4.5D
Nikkor AF 80-400mm F4.5-5.6D ED VR
Nikon SB-80DX Speedlight TTL

Nikon990, TC-E2, EagleEye 5x, Oly B-300 & Kenko 8x32, Metz40 & Sunpak 522, Home Made Battery Packs etc..

 

[philip]

ok.. all of this discussion is pointless if you don't start with some basic information first.

1. You don't just ship off photos to be offset printed. Somebody somewhere is going to do some sort of layout with the file. So the first question is..

A) Are you going to do the layout and prepress?

B) If you are acting only as the photographer, then you need to find out who is doing the layout/prepress and get their requirements. Talk to the actual designers. Find out if they want the original RGB images or if they are expecting CMYK.

It's better to send the RGB file to somebody who is familiar with the final output requirements then to convert blindly to CMYK

C) If you are asked to convert to CMYK, bear in mind that the two color spaces are different. Heavily saturated reds and blues will get clipped and will shift color on you.

As a general rule of thumb, the SWOP ICC color profile is the appropriate CMYK color setting to use, but this is only a general proposition.

D) The basic rule for DPI (as has been said previously) is 2x the line screen of the film separations. It is not uncommon to run 175 or 200 lpi, but the basic guideline for most good quality print is 150dpi. Magazines generally run 133, and news print (Web presses) can be anywhere from 85 to 125 lpi.

The 14n is an untested and presently unavailable camera. You may be waiting a very long time to get one. The Fuji S2, Nikon D100 and Canon D60 are all very capable cameras that can produce perfectly acceptable images for most printing applications.

You haven't given enough details about your intended usage for anybody to make a specific recommendation either way.

regards,

pg

Hi all,

To those of you who have had your digital files reproduced on a
CMYK printing press, what do you think of some publications
insistance on a minimum 300dpi original (at the printed size) with
no interpolation allowed?

One poster here said that CMYK printed output is a different beast
all-together than the results we might achieve at home on a good
printer, and that 300dpi is necessary to achieve good-looking
results.

Thanks much,

john

What is really needed is if you're really going to press you find
out what the line screen is going to be on the film 150, 175 200
higher? from the sound of it 150 you go ask. 300 dpi is optimal for
150 line screen. As a rule, you should double the line screen to
determine your optimal dpi setting for scans and photographs. 300
is a safe number regardless...
As for converting RGB to CYMK:
Always convert your Photoshop files to CMYK! Your files will be
printed on a CMYK press. An RGB file may print correctly on your
color laser printer, but it does not translate correctly on the
RIP. RGB files print out black & white when output to a Linotronic
Imagesetter.
File Formats:
Use TIFF use TIFF (LZW compression off) or EPS (binary) files only!
Other formats such as JPEG, PICT, etc., have mixed results or fail
to print altogether when output to our Linotronic Imagesetters.
Dot Gain:
If you're really picky ask what kind of dot gain may occur and
adjust you're file for it.
--
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
Nikon D100
Sigma AF 17-35mm EX f2.8D
Nikkor AF 28-105 3.5-4.5D
Nikkor AF 80-400mm F4.5-5.6D ED VR
Nikon SB-80DX Speedlight TTL
Nikon990, TC-E2, EagleEye 5x, Oly B-300 & Kenko 8x32, Metz40 &
Sunpak 522, Home Made Battery Packs etc..

--
Philip G.
http://www.cgrafx.com

 

[jtgraphics]

1. You don't just ship off photos to be offset printed. Somebody
somewhere is going to do some sort of layout with the file. So the
first question is..

A) Are you going to do the layout and prepress?

B) If you are acting only as the photographer, then you need to
find out who is doing the layout/prepress and get their
requirements. Talk to the actual designers. Find out if they want
the original RGB images or if they are expecting CMYK.

It's better to send the RGB file to somebody who is familiar with
the final output requirements then to convert blindly to CMYK

C) If you are asked to convert to CMYK, bear in mind that the two
color spaces are different. Heavily saturated reds and blues will
get clipped and will shift color on you.

As a general rule of thumb, the SWOP ICC color profile is the
appropriate CMYK color setting to use, but this is only a general
proposition.

D) The basic rule for DPI (as has been said previously) is 2x the
line screen of the film separations. It is not uncommon to run 175
or 200 lpi, but the basic guideline for most good quality print is
150dpi. Magazines generally run 133, and news print (Web presses)
can be anywhere from 85 to 125 lpi.

The 14n is an untested and presently unavailable camera. You may be
waiting a very long time to get one. The Fuji S2, Nikon D100 and
Canon D60 are all very capable cameras that can produce perfectly
acceptable images for most printing applications.

You haven't given enough details about your intended usage for
anybody to make a specific recommendation either way.

regards,

pg

Hi all,

To those of you who have had your digital files reproduced on a
CMYK printing press, what do you think of some publications
insistance on a minimum 300dpi original (at the printed size) with
no interpolation allowed?

One poster here said that CMYK printed output is a different beast
all-together than the results we might achieve at home on a good
printer, and that 300dpi is necessary to achieve good-looking
results.

Thanks much,

john

What is really needed is if you're really going to press you find
out what the line screen is going to be on the film 150, 175 200
higher? from the sound of it 150 you go ask. 300 dpi is optimal for
150 line screen. As a rule, you should double the line screen to
determine your optimal dpi setting for scans and photographs. 300
is a safe number regardless...
As for converting RGB to CYMK:
Always convert your Photoshop files to CMYK! Your files will be
printed on a CMYK press. An RGB file may print correctly on your
color laser printer, but it does not translate correctly on the
RIP. RGB files print out black & white when output to a Linotronic
Imagesetter.
File Formats:
Use TIFF use TIFF (LZW compression off) or EPS (binary) files only!
Other formats such as JPEG, PICT, etc., have mixed results or fail
to print altogether when output to our Linotronic Imagesetters.
Dot Gain:
If you're really picky ask what kind of dot gain may occur and
adjust you're file for it.
--
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
Nikon D100
Sigma AF 17-35mm EX f2.8D
Nikkor AF 28-105 3.5-4.5D
Nikkor AF 80-400mm F4.5-5.6D ED VR
Nikon SB-80DX Speedlight TTL
Nikon990, TC-E2, EagleEye 5x, Oly B-300 & Kenko 8x32, Metz40 &
Sunpak 522, Home Made Battery Packs etc..

--
Philip G.
http://www.cgrafx.com

Phillp you absolutely right about all the details, but as the original question was a simple question and I felt warrants only a simple answer. I don't think most would understand all the details anyways and those who do, aren't interested anyways since they know already. Just from seeing what you replied with tells me that you do know about whets needed, as I am in the printing business also.
--
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
Nikon D100
Sigma AF 17-35mm EX f2.8D
Nikkor AF 28-105 3.5-4.5D
Nikkor AF 80-400mm F4.5-5.6D ED VR
Nikon SB-80DX Speedlight TTL

Nikon990, TC-E2, EagleEye 5x, Oly B-300 & Kenko 8x32, Metz40 & Sunpak 522, Home Made Battery Packs etc..

 

[John Adler101560]

Phillip,

Sorry if I didn't provide enough detail. Several years ago I dropped out of commercial photography-- I had been specializing in table-top products, food, etc.

Now I'm looking to resume, and I've done enough experimenting with digital to realize that there's a quality gain-- cleaner blow-ups, more control over color and sharpening, etc.

But what I'm wondering is, if I get the S2, will I be able to, for example, get a very clean 8.5x11 out of it-- comparable to what I used to do in 4x5, by the time it gets to print. And if the answer to this is yes, then how big can I go and still have good clean quality with good detail? Imagine a finely detailed food shot. And how much more enlargement would the 14N get me, assuming that it turns out to be the camera we're expecting it to be.

As for the discussion about whether and how to convert to CMYK, etc. I didn't ask about this but it was interesting all the same.

People have mostly answered my questions, but if you have anything to add, I'd love to hear it.

Again, thanks to all who have contributed here.

john