I don't know about other places, but there was some backlash in the comments section of the YouTube video (link below), enough that he posted some clarifying comments about the importance of camera settings. Personally, I greatly prefer photography books that include specifics as to camera type, lenses, and settings for the pictures in the book; without that data, it can be a much less interesting reading experience for me.
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Camera settings, asking about
- Thread starter MisJay
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Is not an expert opinion valuable knowledge? It holds up in a murder trial; one would think it would hold up in something as trivial as the DPR Court of Camera Opinions.
Now if you do not think your opinion is valuable, that is a whole nother can of worms.
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a_c_skinner
Forum Pro
In criminal trials experts only give opinions, that is the difference between witnesses of fact and experts.
It doesn't alter the fact that more basic underpinning knowledge would help some people's photography a good deal.
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Andrew Skinner
It doesn't alter the fact that more basic underpinning knowledge would help some people's photography a good deal.
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Andrew Skinner
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"Tony" (Northup ?) was undoubtedly not the first person to say this. I recall an anecdote making the rounds many years ago about a workshop attendee who asked John Shaw what settings he used for a given picture only to have Shaw snap "the right ones !"
It's the internet. People wake up on the wrong side of the bed and lash out at anything. Just this morning, I replied to two threads criticizing their authors of "hit & run" trolling. Why should that bother me ?
It isn't obvious to beginners. And really, who else watches Tony Northup videos ?
- Dennis
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Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
Absolutely agree. I think it is all important. Example, the text book used and the instructors own experience. I never took everything in from a class for a lifetime of personal use, but I did try to retain the ideas from both text and instructor ( opinion or fact ) that I liked.
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Kung Fu
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Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
(Sorry, I know one of them was on your favorite topic ...)
- Dennis
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Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
David5833
Senior Member
Tony Northrup wants to sell his book, so his point is in the context of learning how to use a DSLR. Clearly there is more to a good photo than only the settings. Buy his book and you can learn to take photos like Tony Northrup. :-|
In a broader context I don't see anything wrong with being curious about the settings, equipment, location, and conditions for a particular shot.
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In a broader context I don't see anything wrong with being curious about the settings, equipment, location, and conditions for a particular shot.
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(Devil's Advocate, because I agree with you) - for many people, it's not flipping obvious - people still ask "why f16 is smaller than f8 - 'cos the numbers are bigger"... "What does the "A" mean on my dial" = "RTFM", etc..
But you're right - asking what the camera setting are is like asking a painter what size brushes he used, equally pointless.
It also places the "skill" of the shot into the camera - people think that buying the top-of-the-line camera will guarantee them superb photos. Then they blame the "settings" because their pictures are crap.
Knowing where, when, why, and of what... to take the photo is more important than the camera.
Sure, a good 20/24 Mp camera might take a better photo than a £30 "Mosksa" brand camera with a plastic lens... but almost any reasonable modern camera ia as good as any other (in the same broad level).
.......................
However - asking, from a noob's perspective, "How did you get the water to go misty" is a valid question.
lambert4
Senior Member
I think during a shoot or similar environment sharing successful settings is helpful for new shooters, but yes as in the images above, asking settings after the fact is irrelevant. I do enjoy it when EXIF is available though accompanying images sometimes I am amazed at what modern cameras can do with ISO.
I pay it little mind if asked and often help newer hobbyists find proper settings and exposure, I am equally amazed at how many people have more expensive or capable gear than me and never take it off 'AUTO' mode, encouraging them and showing them a few simple setting changes may make all the difference in their images to them, why not help?
I pay it little mind if asked and often help newer hobbyists find proper settings and exposure, I am equally amazed at how many people have more expensive or capable gear than me and never take it off 'AUTO' mode, encouraging them and showing them a few simple setting changes may make all the difference in their images to them, why not help?
khunpapa
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IF the camera setting value is really useless, all DPR's challenges won't ask for every photos participated have to have these values been entered too.
Mark S Abeln
Forum Pro
Imagine someone who changes all of the camera settings, at random, between every photo. This might be an interesting exercise in conceptual art, but only for the first person who does it. But also imagine that this person isn't an avant garde artist, but rather someone who simply wants to take decent photos.
Imagine someone else who systematically goes through all of the settings for every photograph. While most of the photographs are either all white or all black or have a terrible color cast or out of focus, and it takes many hours, they persist in this strategy. Unfortunately, they didn't have enough time to even capture one decent photo at their child's birthday party.
Now someone else finds a famous photo, and they duplicate the settings on their camera; sometimes the photos turn out ok, but usually not. They don't read the camera manual or make any attempt to learn.
Image a different kind of person, one who lets their cat, Mr. Fluffy, select their photos for the camera club competition. If Mr. Fluffy purrs while viewing a photo, that's the one chosen. The experienced members of the club offer advice, and the photos generally do poorly, but what do they know? Kitty knows best. Oh, by the way, this person is starting a wedding photography business. Sadly, Mr. Fluffy ran off, and our photographer doesn't know what to do now: maybe get another cat?
Or, someone else, who is rather wealthy and powerful, decides to get into photography, and buys the "best" camera. Being extremely prideful, they insist that their photos must be the best because the camera is the best. Their photos are terrible, but they purchased a gallery and browbeat their employees who dare offer any suggestions. When the gallery got a bad review in the newspaper, the photographer calls the publisher, insisting that the reviewer be fired.
These examples all violate the principles of art and science, and therefore are definitely improper ways of learning or doing photography.
David5833
Senior Member
DrCobweb
New member
Yes, the question "What were your settings?", absent of context, might be of little value. But the question, "What exposure settings did you use, and what was the thought process that led you to choose that type of exposure?" is entirely relevant. For novices or people who are still trying to understand how exposure works and what the different settings do, the question can be simply an opening to explain how and why you elected to shoot the way you did and how the lighting, subject, and circumstances guided the choices. If the questioner just flatly isn't interested in hearing about the thought process involved in choosing how to set up the camera for a specific shot, but thinks the numbers you dialed in can be used as some kind of magic one-size-fits-all formula, then I would shrug the matter off; people who refuse to listen cannot be taught.
Mark S Abeln
Forum Pro
Exaggerated, but I've seen it.
I agree - your version is like asking "what brush did you use for this painting... and why did you chose that specific one?"
Another problem that arises is - people seem to expect everyone to want to teach them, as if they have some special right to demand attention from the photographer (or artist). And they get all nosey out of joint when told "Sorry, I'm busy" - "Well! Excuuuuuse me!" (sarcastic)
I am about to start trying low key photographs and what you describe here is pretty much what I am "looking" for. I am not asking these questions but instead looking at online material that covers the basics.
Almost all the material I find states shoot at ISO 100 to keep the noise down in my blacks, use a black background, and since we are talking about a indoor controlled environment, I can mimic some of the examples. There will be some tweaking due to my camera, lens, and flash being different; but I will get a good starting point.
Other than asking for opinions on equipment or software decisions, I do not ask a lot of questions on forums. But instead, I look for answers. Google is my friend; and with all the good sites for photography around, I usually find something close enough to my answer within a hour or two.
My point to all this is, I am old school in that I search for my answer before I ask the question on a forum. I think if more beginners would do this first, then veterans would be less annoyed with us.
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ClaudiusTheGod
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with the two example pics you have chosen, it would make no difference whether they asked about the camera settings or not, or, that the photogrpaher told them or not.So I saw this video by Tony on Youtube about how people should stop asking about camera settings and I was like, yes! somebody finally said it!
However, there has been significant backlash at Tony for saying this, and I don't get it.
I think people who ask for camera settings are either delusional that they can take an equally good photo just by copying the camera settings, OR, don't know what the different settings on their camera do and should learn that information in a more productive and systematic way.
Either way, there is no reason to ask for camera settings. Look, I'm not a good photographer by any means and I don't make any money doing it, but I never felt like I had to ask for camera settings because it is flipping obvious and there is no reason to ask.
Look, I'm just pulling some random images from google:
This one? well looks like long exposure, maybe longer than 1s, probably with ND filter, with ultra wide lens, probably 18mm, ISO at minimum. possibly at hyper focal and very small aperture.
And you know what, if I can go to this exact place at the exact right time, I can immediately take this photo myself. Except finding this place and time is part of the job of a photographer, and an immensely more difficult part. I as an average amateur already nailed the tiny part of figuring out camera settings.
Now check this out,, looks like wide angle lens at medium aperture. relatively slow ss, probably 1/10 or lower, minimum ISO obviously. Also obviously the camera was following the car very precisely most likely they just took a bunch of shots and hoped that one of them comes out sharp because holding still against another moving car is quite difficult. Again, if I am immediately transported to the time and place of this shoot and siting on that leading car, I can dial in the correct settings and take this same photo.
Again, it doesn't mean I'm an equally skilled photographer, it only means I know the basics of how to operate my camera. And you should know that too.
So if you ask for camera settings, there are only two possibilities. Either you're not even at my level yet, in that case what are you doing? Maybe you should just learn what each of those settings do directly, asking for camera settings doesn't help. Maybe read a book, or maybe go fiddle around with your camera, try and see what each setting does.
Or, you are delusional and think you can take this same photo with the same camera settings. It doesn't work, I tried and this is what I got:
See, it didn't work.
Or maybe there is another type of people. People who take photos that aren't very contrasty and just overall seem dull.
You know what I have nothing against you but still, camera settings won't help. There are a number of possible reasons, maybe you don't know how to do post correctly, maybe your lens is not very good quality, maybe you aren't using your lens hood.
But I do know it has nothing to do with the basic lens settings, those do not affect color, contrast, sharpness etc... Well ISO does but it should be obvious that lower ISO=better.
it would make no difference if we knew a thing or two about aperture, shutter speed or whatever,
it would make no difference if we told them that we hiked for miles or used a very fancy set up to photograph the car.
what matters about those two pictures are light and composition - in that order.
If they were not backlit, then all the knowledge and application of good exposure in the world would not make them interesting images.
lambert4
Senior Member
strong point. I also think if folks are like me the research done may teach them more than just settings. Maybe even add to their retention of the information.
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