Better Raw file software

Adobe Camera Raw will read ALL your data. Do you have version 3.33? If not, download it. Be SURE to print out the instructions and follow them exactly. You must be using CS or CS2 to properly convert with ACR. PS Elements 3 or earlier will do so, but with less fine tuning available. You also MUST remove the old Camera raw .8bi file and follow the directions exactly.

What you will find is:
1- Better highlight retrieval (especially some that you thought were blown)
2- Faster than Nikon Capture (almost exactly twice as fast)
3- Ability to reduce CA and any vignetting
4- Faster batch processing
5- "As shot" settings - although I prefer to not use any "auto" settings

6- All the camera settings - EXIF data including date and time shot, camera, lens, focal length, shutter speed, f stop, etc, etc.

Probably more pros use ACR, by far, than any other raw converter. I have run elaborate tests of six: ACR, NC, Capture 1, Raw Shooter, Bibble, and Fuji when I had the S2. Bibble was the fastest, Capture One the slowest, and ACR the most useful.
--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
 
Can you think of ONE company that has been more involved with digital photography over the PAST 20 years other than Adobe? Wouldn't you imagine they would continue this dedication? Will the others still be around??? I would bet NOT.

The activation is a phone in thing. Easily done by automation.

But to further relieve your fears, Adobe adopted DNG for their files. This is an OPEN format. Sure, it is a little more time consuming, but it is there for all.
--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
 
Can you think of ONE company that has been more involved with
digital photography over the PAST 20 years other than Adobe?
Wouldn't you imagine they would continue this dedication? Will the
others still be around??? I would bet NOT.
I have read reports of people that now can't get PS CS re-activated. They are advised to upgrade to CS2 to solve their problem.
The activation is a phone in thing. Easily done by automation.
Unless it isn't. There have been lots of reports from people where the phone-in activation didn't work, but the Adobe phone lines weren't answered. because it was outside "business hours." Apparently Adobe has a different idea of "business hours" than wedding photographers do. Or concert photographers.
But to further relieve your fears, Adobe adopted DNG for their
files. This is an OPEN format. Sure, it is a little more time
consuming, but it is there for all.
Possibly, but this doesn't answer my request for a RAW converter that doesn't require activation.

IMO, DNG is a non-starter until Canon and Nikon get on board. Otherwise it serves no purpose whatsoever. Because (for better or worse), RAW file formats are proprietary and not documented, such that Thomas Knoll himself reccomends to never erase your original RAW files (because he can't guarantee that everything got converted to DNG.)

AFAIK, every RAW converter that can read DNG can also read the original RAW format. And some RAW converters can't read DNG. So what reason is there to use DNG? (Except for the pathological case of brain dead RAW formats that don't use lossless compression so that DNG files are smaller than the original RAW files. But they still should keep their original RAW files, for the above reasons.)

Wayne Larmon
 
The terms of our license is that one license is valid to be used by one person at a time, though you can install to as many machien as you'd like. We've priced the software very agresively and ask that if you find yourself using more than one copy at a time (IE, batching on multuple machines) that you acquire additional licenses. That said, there is no obtrusive machienry to enforce that.

Eric
 
The terms of our license is that one license is valid to be used by
one person at a time, though you can install to as many machien as
you'd like. We've priced the software very agresively and ask that
if you find yourself using more than one copy at a time (IE,
batching on multuple machines) that you acquire additional
licenses. That said, there is no obtrusive machienry to enforce
that.
Sounds reasonable.

The reason I'm asking is I've come to the realization that, much as I like PS CS, that having the RAW converter inextricably coupled to a massive copy protected application is A Bad Idea (tm). For archiveability and backup/restoration.

Because a large part of the tonal editing is done in the RAW converter (if the RAW converter is good), I've decided that it is time for me to decouple RAW conversion from final touchup editing. With "no copy protection" being high on the list of qualifications. So that I can tuck a copy on my archive disks and not have to worry about being able to run in in VMWare 2025 (like I can do now with WordStar, WFWG, and other antiquities)

Bibble had a demo mode, doesn't it? If so, I'll give it a try.

Wayne Larmon
 
Why thank you steve 8) Appreciate all your kind words of late.

Do keep in mind though, byt the time Bibble 5 arrives, out goal is to get that number one spot on your list rather then just being "The fastest" ;)

Eric
 
Adobe Camera Raw will read ALL your data.
Yes, it will. For a very high price. Adobe angered many of their customers when they required an upgrade to CS2 in order to read files from the Canon XT. I'm one of them. I've had serious problems with Adobe's activation scheme and they've refused to fix any of the problems in either CS or CS2. On a more positive note, I use RSP almost exclusively for RAW conversion and find I get consistently better photos from it than I ever have from ACR. It's also much faster than ACR.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/
 
Adobe Camera Raw will read ALL your data.
Yes, it will. For a very high price. Adobe angered many of their
customers when they required an upgrade to CS2 in order to read
files from the Canon XT.
Nope. Simply CS and version 3.33 Camera raw

I'm one of them. I've had serious problems
with Adobe's activation scheme and they've refused to fix any of
the problems in either CS or CS2.
What problems. I have none!

On a more positive note, I use
RSP almost exclusively for RAW conversion and find I get
consistently better photos from it than I ever have from ACR.
Then you need a little more experience with ACR.

It's
also much faster than ACR.
Not true. Do a comparison speed test. I did.
--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
 
Wayne Larmon wrote:
[snip]
IMO, DNG is a non-starter until Canon and Nikon get on board.
DNG has already started! What mainly matters for any photographer is whether the SOFTWARE they use accepts DNG, not whether their cameras output it. After all, hardly any of the photographers already using DNG have cameras that output DNG.
Otherwise it serves no purpose whatsoever. Because (for better or
worse), RAW file formats are proprietary and not documented, such
that Thomas Knoll himself reccomends to never erase your original
RAW files (because he can't guarantee that everything got converted
to DNG.)
That was probably advice from the first half of last year. Things changed with version 3.x. The preservation of data from the original raws depends on the camera model, (and improves over time). CR2, NEF, PEF, etc, have their EXIF Makernote preserved in DNGPrivateData. Some manufacturers' raw formats are not handled so well.

(I would expect Adobe to play safe with their statements in case they get sued! But photographers don't need to do everything that Adobe tells them to do).
AFAIK, every RAW converter that can read DNG can also read the
original RAW format.
Not true. Certainly ACR 2.4, which is the latest (& last) raw converter plugin for Photoshop CS, only supports about half as many cameras via the native raw files as it does via DNG. I believe Silkypix can handle DNG more comprehensively too. I don't know about others. This will improve over time.
And some RAW converters can't read DNG. So
what reason is there to use DNG?
[snip]

It depends on your workflow and the tools you use. The situation changes month by month, with the advantages in a DNG-based workflow gradually improving. (It is still early days - it was only launched nearly 17 months ago). Some people would get no advantage yet. Some people couldn't fit it into their workflow because they use currently software that doesn't accept DNG. Some people get so much advantage that they never even copy their original raws to the PC. Here are some separate reasons why different people currently use DNG:

1. DNGs are often smaller than the original raw files, because DNG uses a good lossless compression. That matters to some people.

2. Some people use Photoshop CS and don't want to upgrade to CS2, yet have a more recent camera which they want to handle with ACR. They can convert to DNG and open them in ACR 2.4 under CS. About 50 cameras can be handled this way, and the number increases every few months.

3. I think one of the "killer" reasons in future will be the ability to hold lots of metadata within the DNG files. I hold "rights management" metadata, such as copyright, name, website, etc. Plus "asset management" metadata, such as information about the shoot, and about individual images. I can search of this, and in future will probably need this for asset management generally, which is why I am putting it into the DNGs now while it is a manageable problem. (ACR also holds its edits and settings in the DNGs, instead of sidecars or a database, which makes file management a bit easier). A number of asset management products support XMP-within-DNG, and the number will slowly increase.

4. Some people are concerned about archival formats. That probably matters less to Nikon and Canon users than for the "minority" makes. But it will become more of a problem in future. For example, new software products often start by supporting a limited range of cameras, typically the recent ones, and in future DNG may become the way for those future products to handle 2005/2006's cameras. People concerned with long-term archiving typically want proper documentation of the formats they archive, and DNG is pretty well alone in having that. And the inclusion of metadata ("3") obviously makes archiving more compehensive.

5. There are trivial reasons such as the ability to "recover edges".

There may be other reasons too. Advantages increase over time. "1" applied from September 2004. "2", "3", and "4", became useful about May 2005. "5" appeared just two or three months ago. The number of (non-Adobe) products that support DNG in some way increases month by month too. At the end of February 2005 it was about 15. At the end of April 2005 is was about 25. Now it is probably about 100, although no one really knows.

--
DNG is better than sliced bread.
DNG images don't become toast.
 
Adobe Camera Raw will read ALL your data.
Yes, it will. For a very high price. Adobe angered many of their
customers when they required an upgrade to CS2 in order to read
files from the Canon XT.
[snip]

CS supports the same set of cameras that CS2 supports. There was no need to upgrade to CS2 because of new cameras.

ACR 2.4 supports about half of those cameras directly, and all of them via the DNG route.

--
DNG is better than sliced bread.
DNG images don't become toast.
 
CS supports the same set of cameras that CS2 supports. There was no
need to upgrade to CS2 because of new cameras.

ACR 2.4 supports about half of those cameras directly, and all of
them via the DNG route.

--
DNG is better than sliced bread.
DNG images don't become toast.
CS does NOT support the same set of cameras as CS2. Try opening a CR2 file from a 350XT in ACR2.4. It's not supported. I couldn't care less whether I can open them via DNG...I don't need an extra step in my workflow to jump through Adobe's hoops.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/
 
Adobe Camera Raw will read ALL your data.
Yes, it will. For a very high price. Adobe angered many of their
customers when they required an upgrade to CS2 in order to read
files from the Canon XT.
Nope. Simply CS and version 3.33 Camera raw
CS doesn't support ACR 3.33. Or any versions after 2.4. And 2.4 doesn't support CR2 files from an XT.
I'm one of them. I've had serious problems
with Adobe's activation scheme and they've refused to fix any of
the problems in either CS or CS2.
What problems. I have none!'
Count yourself lucky. With CS, I got reactivation demands nearly every day for no apparent reason. A lot of other people did too. Adobe refused to fix it.
On a more positive note, I use
RSP almost exclusively for RAW conversion and find I get
consistently better photos from it than I ever have from ACR.
Then you need a little more experience with ACR.
I've used ACR extensively and through several versions. RSP gives me better results, especially in color. YMMV.
It's
also much faster than ACR.
Not true. Do a comparison speed test. I did.
So did I. And ACR is slower, especially when opening multiple files.
--
----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/
 
Sharpening should always be the last thing you apply just before printing, so you should be applying it in Photoshop anyway (or whatever editor you use) rather than with your raw converter. Sharpening can be impossible to correct if overdone, which is why it should only be applied AFTER saving, not before.
 
IMO, DNG is a non-starter until Canon and Nikon get on board.
DNG has already started! What mainly matters for any photographer
is whether the SOFTWARE they use accepts DNG, not whether their
cameras output it. After all, hardly any of the photographers
already using DNG have cameras that output DNG.
Barry, we are going to have to agree to disagree. For me, DNG isn't worth using until Canon supports it at the camera level. Or if I find that software (other than Adobe software) can read DNG but not the native RAW format.

Wayne Larmon
 
Wayne Larmon wrote:
[snip]
Barry, we are going to have to agree to disagree. For me, DNG
isn't worth using until Canon supports it at the camera level. Or
if I find that software (other than Adobe software) can read DNG
but not the native RAW format.
I'm not saying YOU should start using DNG now. What I am doing is disagreeing with your assertion that DNG isn't of any value until Canon (etc) supports it.

It IS of value to many others, and I am just trying to make that clear to anyone else reading this thread, so they can make their own informed decisions.

--
DNG is better than sliced bread.
DNG images don't become toast.
 

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