Batis 85mm Image Quality

I just received my 85mm Batis.

While waiting (almost 5 months), I really vacillated on whether or not to cancel the order and purchase the FE 90mm f2.8 Macro. DXO rated the 90mm as stellar in terms of sharpness and the reviews on the Batis, while overwhelmingly positive, did have some reviewers that liked the lens, but were not overly impressed by it. Even the Luminous Landscape site published a few photos that were not exactly pin-sharp, which really concerned me.

Well, I must tell you, I'm am blown-away with the lens. Shot wide open and reviewed on a 5K monitor at 100%, the sharpness is every bit as good as the FE 55mm f1.8, if not better. I have shot a lot of expensive glass and must say that this might be the best lens I have ever shot (never shot the Otus)... and the bokeh is like warm cream. The contrast is good wide-open and the colors are very neutral.

I was almost dissuaded by reviewers to not buy the FE 35mm f1.4 and it turned-out to be outstanding. The same with the Batis. From now on, I am going simply judge for myself. It is too easy for a reviewer to miss focus, or not shoot in controlled conditions, and then report mediocre results. Of course, there is also sample variation to contend with.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to mount zoom lenses on my A7RII. :-)
 
I just received my 85mm Batis.

While waiting (almost 5 months), I really vacillated on whether or not to cancel the order and purchase the FE 90mm f2.8 Macro. DXO rated the 90mm as stellar in terms of sharpness and the reviews on the Batis, while overwhelmingly positive, did have some reviewers that liked the lens, but were not overly impressed by it. Even the Luminous Landscape site published a few photos that were not exactly pin-sharp, which really concerned me.

Well, I must tell you, I'm am blown-away with the lens. Shot wide open and reviewed on a 5K monitor at 100%, the sharpness is every bit as good as the FE 55mm f1.8, if not better. I have shot a lot of expensive glass and must say that this might be the best lens I have ever shot (never shot the Otus)... and the bokeh is like warm cream. The contrast is good wide-open and the colors are very neutral.

I was almost dissuaded by reviewers to not buy the FE 35mm f1.4 and it turned-out to be outstanding. The same with the Batis. From now on, I am going simply judge for myself. It is too easy for a reviewer to miss focus, or not shoot in controlled conditions, and then report mediocre results. Of course, there is also sample variation to contend with.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to mount zoom lenses on my A7RII. :-)
 
I also received my Batis Lens on Monday in the early AM and I've just had a chance to take some test shots around the house. Its is amazing. I knew it would be good but thought it might come with a bit of hype. But it blows the Miktakon 85mm away (also owned the Nikon 85mm AF - which is a beautiful lens too), and I forget the name of the reviewer - but Canon users might as well throw the beloved 85mm 1.2 (which I've also owned) into the garbage. Hoping to do an editorial test with it on location here in NYC - but this whole week is rain.
 
I'm planning to buy a used Zeiss 135/1.8 A mount + adapter. I'd prefer to just get a Batis version for $1500.

.

.
 
All makers can produce lenses with superb sharpness - go through each range and there they are. But this not a contest worth winning, once all lenses achieve a certain threshold.

If fine images are your goal, use lenses that get you there - those with high impact, balance, color, bokeh. I prefer the B85 rendering to that of the technical best 85mm (and best overall by most accounts) lens ever made for 35mm photography - the Otus. But for anyone who just shelled out $4500 for an Otus, it would be sacrilege to say so. ;-)

Sony and Zeiss have realized all this, so you see this well-developed character in all their modern FE primes. No one makes anything like the FE 35/1.4, it's an achievement so good that if it was a C/N lens, people would be doing back flips. Before long, it will be driving reviewers crazy that they cannot use FE/Loxia/Batis lenses on any other platform. The 'sharpness uber alles' crowd like the Sigma; not everyone sees lens drawing styles as important.

What can be an issue is that character lenses are generally narrow in scope, and this is true of the FE 35/1.4 and golden oldies like Canon's f1.2 lenses, and Nikon's new 58/1.4.

The Batis pair are true Zeiss in that they suffer no such compromises. Like the RX1 Sonnar, they are up for any fight at any aperture in any environment. These are hallmarks of Zeiss through their long history.

On comparing across FLs - you can't. The rule of thumb is this: the longer the focal length the stronger the lens performance. The 'best' lenses are mid-long telephotos, then in the regular FL ranges most use, it's 85-100, then 75, 55-60, then 45-50, then 35 and so on. So traditionally, designers aim for strong centers in wider lenses to compensate.

The FE55, good as it is, cannot match the B85, and the FE35/1.4 cannot match the FE55 except in one huge respect - center performance, where it does better below f4. From f4 on, the FE55 walks away from it all over the frame.

thanks for your remarks. We are very lucky to be using Sony, if only for the lenses. Reviewers often carry large biases towards established market participants, and that is understandable.

For example, the Photozone site has still not tested the FE55, two years after release and it being the mainstay of the range. In fact, they have only tested ONE FE prime. Not many Canon users will want to know about FE. It's only bad news for them...Zeiss had great success with the ZE range, so much so it's now morphed into Milvis. Many people don't like Canon's color balance but Zeiss made the ZEs work so well they delivered far superior results - on the same sensors. So it's the EF lenses as well.

Here are some images to illustrate this point.

Test of new Tamron prime lenses on Canon 6D - see if you would be happy with the woman's complexion and lack of tonal range in other images - most un-Sony like:

http://photo.net/equipment/tamron/sp35_sp45_review/

(scroll down)
I really appreciate your wisdom on this subject.

Several years ago, I was "fat, dumb and happy" shooting my D8XX cameras along with Nikon's finest glass, augmented with the Sigma ART lenses ,etc. Then, in order to lighten my load when traveling, I acquired an RX1R, then A7R. I was rather amazed at the quality of rendering from these cameras - particularly the RX1R.

Next was a period where I shot the Sony and Nikon equipment, together. Funny thing, at review time, I nearly always picked the Sony images. Then the Nikon equipment started gathering dust. I finally sold most of it.

Other than the fact that most all my Sony shots were in precise focus with fast lenses (a rather new concept, for a DSLR shooter), there was just a subtle quality about the images that won me over to the Sony/Zeiss combination. I'm sure that a lot of photographers will not even notice it. It is almost like the subtle differences I experienced in the film days when I shot the Leica M series along with the various SLR's of that day.

Thankfully, the A7RII made a lot of advances in the feature-set that make the equipment truly useable in the field. I couldn't be more pleased... well, maybe a few longer lenses.
 
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b3357ab4a75d455c9da90b0e012af73f.jpg
 
What's wrong with it?

Thats a nice artistic shot, BUT, see how distracting the background is?

It draws the eyes away from the subject.

I don't mind swirly bokeh in the odd artistic shot, but I certainly wouldn't want it in all my portrait shots.

J
 
I have shot a lot of expensive glass and must say that this might be the best lens I have ever shot (never shot the Otus)
...really?
 
I agree. Swirly bokeh is not attractive to me either. Additionally, it should not have hard edges either. I really like the bokeh from my new toy. :-)



fc7c8c02ee5247049bf321f91cc72e7b.jpg



--
Sony A7II | A6000
from 12mm to 500mm
 
This is not even close to being true. I run dual monitors - one at 1920px and the other at 5000px (27 inch). Photos that look pin-sharp on the lower resolution monitor can easily be revealed as being unsharp on the high-resolution monitor. The 5K monitor is very unforgiving.
Your original post said "reviewed on a 5K monitor at 100%" if you mean zoomed in to actual pixels, then viewing on a high resolution monitor is equivalent to viewing a low resolution monitor from further away (in terms of the angular resolution of each pixel).

You wouldn't argue that viewing images from further away makes it easier to judge sharpness would you?
 
Hi Jeff,

wouldn't you expect a lens costing $2k, to produce results that are significantly better than the average lens?

You make it sound like someone who just bought a Porsche, and is over the moon that hi $150k car performs better than a $30k VW Golf (putting the diesel engine VW issues on the side for now).

But man, this is just NORMAL!

My own Nikon 85mm f1.4 also performs wonderfully, be it resolution from wide open, to superb creamy bokeh, all this for about $200-300 less than an Otus, and while letting in 65 percent more light in.

Reviewers? Frankly, all you need are test shots, and form your own judgement. DxO only publish scores that are out of their black box - hardly very useful.

I just received my 85mm Batis.

While waiting (almost 5 months), I really vacillated on whether or not to cancel the order and purchase the FE 90mm f2.8 Macro. DXO rated the 90mm as stellar in terms of sharpness and the reviews on the Batis, while overwhelmingly positive, did have some reviewers that liked the lens, but were not overly impressed by it. Even the Luminous Landscape site published a few photos that were not exactly pin-sharp, which really concerned me.

Well, I must tell you, I'm am blown-away with the lens. Shot wide open and reviewed on a 5K monitor at 100%, the sharpness is every bit as good as the FE 55mm f1.8, if not better. I have shot a lot of expensive glass and must say that this might be the best lens I have ever shot (never shot the Otus)... and the bokeh is like warm cream. The contrast is good wide-open and the colors are very neutral.

I was almost dissuaded by reviewers to not buy the FE 35mm f1.4 and it turned-out to be outstanding. The same with the Batis. From now on, I am going simply judge for myself. It is too easy for a reviewer to miss focus, or not shoot in controlled conditions, and then report mediocre results. Of course, there is also sample variation to contend with.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to mount zoom lenses on my A7RII. :-)

--
Jeff
Florida, USA
http://www.gr8photography.com
 
Hi Jeff,

wouldn't you expect a lens costing $2k, to produce results that are significantly better than the average lens?

You make it sound like someone who just bought a Porsche, and is over the moon that hi $150k car performs better than a $30k VW Golf (putting the diesel engine VW issues on the side for now).

But man, this is just NORMAL!

My own Nikon 85mm f1.4 also performs wonderfully, be it resolution from wide open, to superb creamy bokeh, all this for about $200-300 less than an Otus, and while letting in 65 percent more light in.

Reviewers? Frankly, all you need are test shots, and form your own judgement. DxO only publish scores that are out of their black box - hardly very useful.
I just received my 85mm Batis.

While waiting (almost 5 months), I really vacillated on whether or not to cancel the order and purchase the FE 90mm f2.8 Macro. DXO rated the 90mm as stellar in terms of sharpness and the reviews on the Batis, while overwhelmingly positive, did have some reviewers that liked the lens, but were not overly impressed by it. Even the Luminous Landscape site published a few photos that were not exactly pin-sharp, which really concerned me.

Well, I must tell you, I'm am blown-away with the lens. Shot wide open and reviewed on a 5K monitor at 100%, the sharpness is every bit as good as the FE 55mm f1.8, if not better. I have shot a lot of expensive glass and must say that this might be the best lens I have ever shot (never shot the Otus)... and the bokeh is like warm cream. The contrast is good wide-open and the colors are very neutral.

I was almost dissuaded by reviewers to not buy the FE 35mm f1.4 and it turned-out to be outstanding. The same with the Batis. From now on, I am going simply judge for myself. It is too easy for a reviewer to miss focus, or not shoot in controlled conditions, and then report mediocre results. Of course, there is also sample variation to contend with.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to mount zoom lenses on my A7RII. :-)

--
Jeff
Florida, USA
http://www.gr8photography.com
its .... 1300$ not 2k.. that's a huge difference.

--
Flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/135137382@N08/
Site:
http://vladbusuioc.com
 
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What's wrong with it?

Thats a nice artistic shot, BUT, see how distracting the background is?

It draws the eyes away from the subject.

I don't mind swirly bokeh in the odd artistic shot, but I certainly wouldn't want it in all my portrait shots.

J
Agree indeed...but I guess to each its own...
 
What's wrong with it?

Thats a nice artistic shot, BUT, see how distracting the background is?

It draws the eyes away from the subject.

I don't mind swirly bokeh in the odd artistic shot, but I certainly wouldn't want it in all my portrait shots.

J
And who's to say that 'distracting' aspect is not part of the composition of the photo? To me that's half the uniqueness of the photo, to have it more blurred focuses more on the subject itself, losing the more artistic rendering of the background. I have portraits with incredibly smooth bokeh and the subject in foreground, the background is so smooth that only 20% of the photo is worth looking at.

I remember the release of the Touit 32 Planar and how 'noisy' the bokeh was... to me, if used right, enhances a picture greatly, while noisy, the colors are more pronounced and the center sharpness gave it more pop to separate from the background.

Stop listening to consensus. Photography is about working with limitations, if smooth bokeh is the only goal then you're pics will start to look bland. To me, every lens has a purpose. Whether it is hazy, noisy, soft, or even de-centered, a true artists works with all of those to capture a unique photo.
 
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My opinions are not due to any consensus.

I prefer bokeh to be buttery smooth, and not to distract the attention from the subject.

Each to one's own.

J
 
My opinions are not due to any consensus.

I prefer bokeh to be buttery smooth, and not to distract the attention from the subject.

Each to one's own.

J
I am with you...When you look at a photo and your eyes are directed towards the Bokeh or you dont even know where to focus on right away, thats not a good sign to me but like I said...to each its own.
 
Wouldn't you agree that it always depends on the particular photo? I would not want to have swirly bokeh in every one of my portraits (naturally), and the Batis produces that effect only under some circumstances.

The particular photo I posted above would not be enhanced by buttery smooth bokeh, it would simply become bland and less interesting. Just my opinion of course :)
 

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