Backfocus Poll -150 messages limit reached.

[Paolo Pizzi]

I don't care where you're from, or what your first language is, or
your level of education, when you write stuff like this:

"My guess is at least 2.5% of the people in this forum (and I suspect
a lot more...) don't know jack s* t about the basics of photography
but they're more than ready to blame their failures on the D70... "

I didn't know this was the Christian Coalition forum...
Funny you pretend not to care about my "funny" name
but in fact you're only blaming me, like nobody else has
ever used that kind of language in here...(and yes, I
DID use the asterisks, basically bleeping the word out.)

You right-wing extremists are really, really twisted...

------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'

(Albert Einstein)

• Equipment list in profile.

 

[Roland Wooster]

Paolo, you make the most outrageous statements. I'm not saying that you're the only person to swear on the forum, just that if you do you're obviously going to be subject to accusations of poor vocabularly, that was all I was pointing out, as you so clearly missed it when others pointed it out.

I wasn't getting on your case for actually swearing, but just pointing out the obvious that everyone else seems to get, but sadly you don't.

Actually the name calling is quite humorous as I'm neither right wing nor christian - so keep guessing.

Roland.

I don't care where you're from, or what your first language is, or
your level of education, when you write stuff like this:

"My guess is at least 2.5% of the people in this forum (and I suspect
a lot more...) don't know jack s* t about the basics of photography
but they're more than ready to blame their failures on the D70... "

I didn't know this was the Christian Coalition forum...
Funny you pretend not to care about my "funny" name
but in fact you're only blaming me, like nobody else has
ever used that kind of language in here...(and yes, I
DID use the asterisks, basically bleeping the word out.)

You right-wing extremists are really, really twisted...

------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'

(Albert Einstein)

• Equipment list in profile.

 

[ad in md]

I can see several distinct problems with your informal poll:

1. Since there was no standardized testing of the BF-suspect
cameras, all the poll can show is how many people think they have
BF, not how many actually do have it.

Yes,but unlike some I don't assume all who think they have b/f are
fools or mistaken. There are enough examples of Nikon agreeing
there is a fault to show that there is a problem.

No issues here.

2. Since there is a 150 post limit, you have no idea how many
people don't think they have BF.

It doesn't matter how many don't have a problem, to indicate a
problem exists!

It may very well exist, but your whole point is about how widespread this problem is. My contention is that it isn't, and I base mine on just as few facts as you do.

3. You have absolutely no idea how many members there are on the
D70 forum, nor how many of those own D70 cameras.

I stated I was making an assumption!!! But a reasonable one I
think, Based on 300,000 manufactured and elivered to distributors,
less than that sold, its hard to beleive that there are more than
1% of worldwide D70 users posting onthe D70 forum!

My poiint is that since you are making assumptions, then maybe that's what the title of your post should say: "I assume Nikon has a QC problem". Far less people mislead this way.

In absence of "informal" data for points 2 and 3, you cannot
calculate Nikon's rate of failure for the D70, nor can you issue
any comments about Nikon's QC. If you do, be advised you're no
better than the garden-variety troll.

Simple, if you make an expensie autofocus camera, and cameras leave
the factory that don't autofocus correctly, you have a QC problem.

All true. Also true: there is no perfect product, ALL production manufacturing lines have failures. Your contention is that Nikon's failuer rate is higher for the D70, but I see absolutely no FACTS to back it up.

I am not married to Nikon and would have no problem agreeing a true problem exists, if backed by proof. Otherwise in my view it's just the law of averages that dealt some customers malfunctioning focus modules.

ad in md

PS: I hope you recognize the title as a clumsy attempt at
paraphrasing Mark Twain, and not as an insult.

Also never forget that almost everyone has more than the average
number of legs... (I guess the average is around 1.9 something,
allowing for one legged and no legged peple)

Good one.

Well, far from being "pointless" and "invaild" as many commented,
the informal poll I started seems to have shown a MAJOR b/f issue
with D70's. With over 80 cases repeorted on this forum alone any
sensible extrapolation of the data, i.e. there would need to be
8000 D70 users posting here for the b/f issue to be less than 1% of
cameras, shows that Nikon have a problem they should be owning up
to.

A 1%+ failure rate at sale in modern consumer electronics is about
10 to 100 times too high by usual ACHIEVED standards. Most
Japanese companies AIM for "five nines" (i.e. 99.999%) quality
standards, 1% failure rate is 2 nines quality (99%), or 1000 times
worse than that.

BTW,my guess,and its only a guess, is that there are about 3000 D70
owbers here on the forum, that would imply a b/f problem rate of
over 2.5% - totally unacceptable.

AND - for all the b/f doubters -YES that does also imply about
2,920 cameras that are fine!

 

[HammersFan]

Paolo, calm down please. I was not trying to get at you. My reference to poor vocabulary was a response to my annoyance at you putting s* t in your post. It had absolutely nothing to do with your ethnicity. I don't know how I can convince you of this, other than to just tell you.

As you state, you are educated. Why use profanity in your post ? You have a Ph.D for goodnes sake. Surely you didn't debate things with people at University with this sort of language ?

I have read quite a few posts from others in the last 10 days who do the same, and ther are far too many.

Regards
John

My guess is at least 2.5% of the people in this forum (and I suspect
a lot more...) don't know jack s* t about the basics of photography
but they're more than ready to blame their failures on the D70...

Hello Paolo,
It has nothing to do with your name Paolo, it was based purely on
the attitude I was reading in your posts. I live in New Zealand,
and would not have the foggiest idea, based on someones name where
they were from.

I read many posts on here from people who may not
have english as a first language, and I truly enjoy reading their
posts, if they are interesting. I couldn't give a monkeys if their
grammar is not spot on.

This is what you wrote:
"I'd say more than 2.5% have a poor vocabulary and
an even poorer control of their tempers."

So, evidently it DOES bother you when you believe
someone is mangling YOUR language... Did you think
I would forget your rant against those "guilty" of not
speaking English as their first language and inflicting so
much pain on your ultra-sensitive highly-educated ears
with their "poor vocabulary"?

BTW, English is also MY first language, but evidently
some people can't grasp the concept that someone
can have a non-Anglo name but still be an English
speaker... (obviously, to you I must be from some kind
of godforsaken Spanish-speaking country, you didn't
even bother to check my details...)

Oh yeah, and let's not forget your other zinger:

"You can disagree and put your argument in a controlled,
intellectual form if you try (like they do at Nikonians)."

Which clearly hints a complete lack of education on
my part. FYI I have a Ph.D. Surprised? I guess so,
since you have made me an uneducated peon with
a "poor vocabulary."

You are free to be a racist, you are free to be a bigot,
but please don't pretend to be unbiased and tolerant,
because you have so evidently proven you are not.

Other people have either expressed similar opinions to
mine or even backed me up, yet you singled me out.
Given the quoted statements, it's pretty obvious why.

Finally, let's not forget that you are hiding behind a
handle while I'm always signing with my real name. I
know, to you it probably means nothing, but it's so
easy to insult someone while well hidden behind a
computer...

I can consider this incident closed, you started insulting
me and I should have the last word. That is if you were
a gentleman, of course...

------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'

(Albert Einstein)

• Equipment list in profile.

 

[NickL]

Cheers Spook - I see the point of the post now!

My apologies to Paolo for getting the wrong end of the stick.

I guess if something is wrong, do something about it. There's no need to tell the forum. I posted first with great trepidation as I did not want to be seen to be perpetuating a "myth", but people wanted to know if Nikon UK had the ability to do anything. From my experience so far, the answer is "yes".

I would hope that the vast majority will have a great camera. Hell, I have a great camera! I'm really looking forward to getting it back!

Thanks for posting, it really was appreciated and it cleared up my misreading of Paolo's post.
Nick.

 

[HammersFan]

Started at 7.50pm NZ time, about cameras that have actually been repaired and returned.

John

 

[KiwiD70]

I see Nikon Singapore have said all D70's are likely to be affected,Nikon Canada about 10%......looks like my estimate of 2 1/2% was way too low!!

Any of the naysayers feel like retracting their criticism of my "informal" poll?

I can see several distinct problems with your informal poll:

1. Since there was no standardized testing of the BF-suspect
cameras, all the poll can show is how many people think they have
BF, not how many actually do have it.

Yes,but unlike some I don't assume all who think they have b/f are
fools or mistaken. There are enough examples of Nikon agreeing
there is a fault to show that there is a problem.

No issues here.

2. Since there is a 150 post limit, you have no idea how many
people don't think they have BF.

It doesn't matter how many don't have a problem, to indicate a
problem exists!

It may very well exist, but your whole point is about how
widespread this problem is. My contention is that it isn't, and I
base mine on just as few facts as you do.

3. You have absolutely no idea how many members there are on the
D70 forum, nor how many of those own D70 cameras.

I stated I was making an assumption!!! But a reasonable one I
think, Based on 300,000 manufactured and elivered to distributors,
less than that sold, its hard to beleive that there are more than
1% of worldwide D70 users posting onthe D70 forum!

My poiint is that since you are making assumptions, then maybe
that's what the title of your post should say: "I assume Nikon has
a QC problem". Far less people mislead this way.

In absence of "informal" data for points 2 and 3, you cannot
calculate Nikon's rate of failure for the D70, nor can you issue
any comments about Nikon's QC. If you do, be advised you're no
better than the garden-variety troll.

Simple, if you make an expensie autofocus camera, and cameras leave
the factory that don't autofocus correctly, you have a QC problem.

All true. Also true: there is no perfect product, ALL production
manufacturing lines have failures. Your contention is that Nikon's
failuer rate is higher for the D70, but I see absolutely no FACTS
to back it up.

I am not married to Nikon and would have no problem agreeing a true
problem exists, if backed by proof. Otherwise in my view it's just
the law of averages that dealt some customers malfunctioning focus
modules.

ad in md

PS: I hope you recognize the title as a clumsy attempt at
paraphrasing Mark Twain, and not as an insult.

Also never forget that almost everyone has more than the average
number of legs... (I guess the average is around 1.9 something,
allowing for one legged and no legged peple)

Good one.

Well, far from being "pointless" and "invaild" as many commented,
the informal poll I started seems to have shown a MAJOR b/f issue
with D70's. With over 80 cases repeorted on this forum alone any
sensible extrapolation of the data, i.e. there would need to be
8000 D70 users posting here for the b/f issue to be less than 1% of
cameras, shows that Nikon have a problem they should be owning up
to.

A 1%+ failure rate at sale in modern consumer electronics is about
10 to 100 times too high by usual ACHIEVED standards. Most
Japanese companies AIM for "five nines" (i.e. 99.999%) quality
standards, 1% failure rate is 2 nines quality (99%), or 1000 times
worse than that.

BTW,my guess,and its only a guess, is that there are about 3000 D70
owbers here on the forum, that would imply a b/f problem rate of
over 2.5% - totally unacceptable.

AND - for all the b/f doubters -YES that does also imply about
2,920 cameras that are fine!

 

[HammersFan]

Hi D V Arlidge, Interesting stuff alright. Where did you read that ? Also, what is your first name, it'll be better to address you by that, or a nickname you like or whatever ( "D V" if you want ).

John

Any of the naysayers feel like retracting their criticism of my
"informal" poll?

I can see several distinct problems with your informal poll:

1. Since there was no standardized testing of the BF-suspect
cameras, all the poll can show is how many people think they have
BF, not how many actually do have it.

Yes,but unlike some I don't assume all who think they have b/f are
fools or mistaken. There are enough examples of Nikon agreeing
there is a fault to show that there is a problem.

No issues here.

2. Since there is a 150 post limit, you have no idea how many
people don't think they have BF.

It doesn't matter how many don't have a problem, to indicate a
problem exists!

It may very well exist, but your whole point is about how
widespread this problem is. My contention is that it isn't, and I
base mine on just as few facts as you do.

3. You have absolutely no idea how many members there are on the
D70 forum, nor how many of those own D70 cameras.

I stated I was making an assumption!!! But a reasonable one I
think, Based on 300,000 manufactured and elivered to distributors,
less than that sold, its hard to beleive that there are more than
1% of worldwide D70 users posting onthe D70 forum!

My poiint is that since you are making assumptions, then maybe
that's what the title of your post should say: "I assume Nikon has
a QC problem". Far less people mislead this way.

In absence of "informal" data for points 2 and 3, you cannot
calculate Nikon's rate of failure for the D70, nor can you issue
any comments about Nikon's QC. If you do, be advised you're no
better than the garden-variety troll.

Simple, if you make an expensie autofocus camera, and cameras leave
the factory that don't autofocus correctly, you have a QC problem.

All true. Also true: there is no perfect product, ALL production
manufacturing lines have failures. Your contention is that Nikon's
failuer rate is higher for the D70, but I see absolutely no FACTS
to back it up.

I am not married to Nikon and would have no problem agreeing a true
problem exists, if backed by proof. Otherwise in my view it's just
the law of averages that dealt some customers malfunctioning focus
modules.

ad in md

PS: I hope you recognize the title as a clumsy attempt at
paraphrasing Mark Twain, and not as an insult.

Also never forget that almost everyone has more than the average
number of legs... (I guess the average is around 1.9 something,
allowing for one legged and no legged peple)

Good one.

Well, far from being "pointless" and "invaild" as many commented,
the informal poll I started seems to have shown a MAJOR b/f issue
with D70's. With over 80 cases repeorted on this forum alone any
sensible extrapolation of the data, i.e. there would need to be
8000 D70 users posting here for the b/f issue to be less than 1% of
cameras, shows that Nikon have a problem they should be owning up
to.

A 1%+ failure rate at sale in modern consumer electronics is about
10 to 100 times too high by usual ACHIEVED standards. Most
Japanese companies AIM for "five nines" (i.e. 99.999%) quality
standards, 1% failure rate is 2 nines quality (99%), or 1000 times
worse than that.

BTW,my guess,and its only a guess, is that there are about 3000 D70
owbers here on the forum, that would imply a b/f problem rate of
over 2.5% - totally unacceptable.

AND - for all the b/f doubters -YES that does also imply about
2,920 cameras that are fine!