APS-C vs FF

KingOfAtlantis

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Whenever I type in "A7R" and "A6000" into flickr, the images look so much better on the A7R side. I am trying to work out what it is. Maybe the shallow DOF? Maybe just the A7R is filtered to more pro side of shooters rather than the snap happy cheap A6000 people? Everything just seems better on the A7R search results in general compared to the A6000. I love my A6000 images and it has got me wondering what they would be like had I used a full frame.
 
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There are a lot of things about the FF cameras.

To start with FF cameras are more expensive then APS cameras. So more beginners will buy an APS camera then a FF camera. So people buying a FF camera are most of the time more experienced and know how to get the most out of the camera.

Then you paid a lot for your camera, so you are willing to pay more for your lenses too. So you will get the best lenses.

Then when you buy a FF camera you are willing to take more time to take your pictures (maybe you are a pro, maybe just an advanced amateur. When you take more time for a picture, you will get better pictures in the end.

The "better" DOF is just one thing, when comparing portraits it can realy make the difference, but often I see...
Yes, there is a difference in IQ between FF and APS. But for most of my photography I would not notice the difference. Where FF would make a difference its not (for me) worth the investment, not only money but other factors. I initially went to DX from 35mm film because I like the 1.5 crop factor. I like the NEX cameras, among other things, because they are small and light enough to have a body for each lens. I may get the 7r for my FE 70-200mm lens but I do need/like the tilting EVF on my 5R for pics I use the lens and properly will get a 5T.
 
Why is it when I drive my BMW 6 series it always seems so much nicer than my Ford Focus?

Could it be that it costs 4 times as much?

Have you ever compared the A7ii with the a6000?

Now there's an amazing comparison for a camera that costs one third of the other.

The A7r is the only full-frame camera that I have considered buying because there IS a clear difference in quality, namely, resolution, DR and color gammut. But it would be as a second camera, mostly for landscapes and portraits. For everything else the a6000 is great!

Cheers
 
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Troll or not, I was interested in this topic and read through the thread.

I have an a77 kit and an a6000 kit and find the a7r very appealing but the cost of selling off my current gear, at seeming low prices across the board on eBay, brings me back to justifying my what I currently have. ;-)

That said, I was thinking of upgrading the a77 to the a77ii, but with the a7 at nearly the same price, well, I'm thinking about going from APS-C to FF. :-P
 
Relative technology is missing the point of the thread. The OP's conclusion from seeing A7R and A6000 photos on flickr, along with the replies made early on was that FF Sony owners in general are better photographers than APS-C Sony owners in general.

Whether this is true or not is irrelevant, and in fact it may well be generally true as much as say Nikon full frame camera owners are generally better photographers than Sony A7 owners. Try starting a thread in the A7 forum suggesting say flickr photos tagged 'Nikon Df' are better than those tagged 'Sony A7II' , and imply a conclusion that Nikon full frame camera owners are generally better photographers than Sony A7 owners, and watch the thread go the same way of defensive tech talk and the like. Until someone realises it's a troll ;-)

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets
 
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Maybe just the A7R is filtered to more pro side of shooters rather than the snap happy cheap A6000 people?
Bingo.
Right; the differences between APS-C and FF should not be visible on a medium like flickr. Unless you're into extremely shallow DOF or looking at the rare shot where the APS-C sensor lacked dynamic range. Most often, you're looking at differences in photographers using the gear, and both their shooting and post processing skills. It's a percentage thing ... more A7r shots will be taken by very good photographers. You might see more shallow DOF shots with FF, whether due to the decisions of the photographers or because the FF owners are more likely to have lenses that can do shallow DOF, I have no idea.
Hi Dennis, EXACTLY. The vast majority of us view our images on screens and will not see the pixel peeping differences. But we can see an outstanding user when they appear... with any camera.

I'm fortunate to have the iMac 5k and shots from my ex GF's A7 are technically superior to my 5D2 from the standpoint of dynamic range and detail. She has sent me RAWs to play with and there is no doubt in my mind.

I don't think many people would argue that the capability of an A7R with a Zeiss prime will exceed the A6000 with its 16-50 kit lens. It does not mean the results will be better.

But....

The A6000 will more often be with me and for most of my photography it will be more than adequate :-)

Rob

PS - Love your galleries!
 
The A6000 will more often be with me and for most of my photography it will be more than adequate :-)

Rob

PS - Love your galleries!
Thanks Rob ... re: your last point, I probably have more good photos taken with my RX100 than with my A6000 for the reason you stated (though once I get the 28/2, I expect to have my A6000 with me a lot more often).
 
What many people don't seem to understand is the tradeoff between DOF and light-gathering ability. You sacrifice DOF to get the extra stop of light. If you need that DOF back, then you need to stop down on FE and lose that stop.
There's no such a thing as 'sacrificing DoF' in a general sense. You can change distance, max aperture or FL to get the DoF you need, you don't have to adhere to the artificial construct of using the same lens with the same distance, FL or FoV.

There is no 'correct' or 'most desirable' DoF. It's as relative as your composition. The same way that there's no one correct FL.

There's also no 'FE'. That's just what Sony terms its lenses that are FF compatible. It's not a mount and it's not a sensor format reference like 'FX and DX'.

You can lose focal range if you go with an 18-55 compared to a 16-70, and there you actually do have a 'loss' of a tangible nature. Similarly, you can have a lens with smaller maximum aperture, like F4 vs. F2.8. Optical performance equal there, you're losing flexibility. But a FF body itself has a greater range for control over DoF, not less.
I agree that a lot of people don't consider this ... but it's also not always a consideration. A lot of photography is done at base ISO, whether from a tripod, using IS, or simply in good enough light to use fast shutter speeds, and you can stop down to your heart's content without having to raise ISO. Look at how much photography was done over the years preceding digital with Kodakchrome or Velvia.

I'm not saying that high ISO isn't a great thing - I shoot about 40% of my photos at or above ISO 1600. But depending on what you're shooting, you can exploit larger sensors and still have all the DOF you need.
I'm not sure I follow your point unless you are arguing that full frame at ISO 100 is better tan APS-C at ISO 100, which is only barely true. Look at Samsung's or Nikon's most recent APS-C cameras' dynamic range for instance. Even the a6000's ISO 100 DR is very close to the a7 series.
It's close relative to prior generations of APS-C cameras and the gap is indeed narrowing, but it's still a detectable difference. The A7 series produces superior tonal, dynamic range and SnR across the ISO spectrum.

436e91fe6e1a4e28ad74f67103bb711c.jpg.png

You can't change the physics of the larger capacity light wells.

There are certainly real reasons to go with smaller sensor cameras, but that's predominantly relating to size, weight and price. In the case of the A6000 vs A7 series, AF performance is better as well.
Where is this graph from? I'd love to see more of this sort of thing.

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That could well be the case, but assuming an image that has appreciable fine detail, also in the background as might be the case with landscapes, the a7r is quite obviously better that the a6000.

If, as some of the photos posted here show, there are just large objects with solid block of color, little dynamic range and little to no detail then the differences will be smaller and not so obvious.

The dif between the a6000 and A7ii however IMHO is quite small.
 

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