Any "Sharp" Photo Suggestions?

[redline race pics]

Dave,

As the owner of an E-10 and a Sony s-75 don't all the PS tricks and suggestions(shoot @ 5.6) etc. kind of prove your brothers point? Believe me, I really like the E-10 but aside from file size and a few other advantages like drive mode, I'm not convinced that I'm getting better results from the Oly. And @ twice the price I REALLY wanna like the Oly.
Bill

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

 

[brianf]

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

Dave,

I dont Know if its relevant but please study the attached images, both taken from the same position roughly one with my new E20 at full zoom and the other with my old Sony S75 at full zoom with a Tiffen X2 teleconvertor fitted ( = 210 mm approx) with vingetting.

The Sony is a summer photo and the E 20 is a winter photo and the exposures are obviously different and colour balance etc will not be equal but the reason i post the images is for interest realy as I have cropped and zoomed into various areas and compared the images and I would be hard pressed to pick from the cropped areas which is the sharpest camera.

The originals are on my Pbase pages unaltered for anyone wishing to experiment with them.

This may not be a fair test but my point is be careful about a head to head test you may be dissapointed with the outcome.

I loved using my Sony S75 but no regrets about buying the E20 now I have learned how to use it I am getting the results that please me.

I have read many posts on this Forum about OOF, Soft images etc, etc from new OLY Exx users, I experienced all the same doubts about focus and sharpness to begin with on both camera's when I learned how to use them correctly my problems went away.

Any way enough of my ramblings here are the images.

Sony S75.



E20.



Brian.

 

[dash9]

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

here ya go! NO post processing

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Dave,
As the owner of an E-10 and a Sony s-75 don't all the PS tricks and
suggestions(shoot @ 5.6) etc. kind of prove your brothers point
Believe me, I really like the E-10 but aside from file size and a
few other advantages like drive mode, I'm not convinced that I'm
getting better results from the Oly.

If you are looking for comsumer-ish results straight out of the camera, you'll be disappointed. As has been pointed out in this thread many times, the E-series is designed with professional use in mind, so it delivers an image with the largest postprocessing latitude possible (in terms of dynamic range and sharpening artifacts). If you're not appreciating the difference in terms of color accuracy, it's possible the E-10 was never for you in the first place.

And @ twice the price I REALLY
wanna like the Oly.
Bill

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[TrentMcD]

I think you're missing the point of most of these posts. Although Dave may want to show his brother what his camera can do, most people posted with more general intentions. I'm extremely happy with the image quality of my E-10 and am happier with it by the day as I get to know the camera. That doesn't mean I don't want to find new ways to make better pictures with it.

These "tricks" are the tools of digital photography we use every day. Things like using F5.6 is good photography. When you look at a great photo in a magazine do you think that the photographer just pointed his/her camera and released the shutter and then printed whatever came out of the camera? People have always used all types of tips and tricks to get better photos, both before releasing the shutter and after.

The whole idea of posting these tips is not to beat Sony, but to help everyone here to become better digital photographers. I know it's helped me.

A couple of other thoughts:

If it were only a point of ability to resolve detail, I'd just tell Dave to print the resolution comparisons of the two cameras from Phil's review. Obviously, the resolution is close enough that it would be easy to make one camera or the other to appear to be sharper. The DSC70, being a P-n-S camera, may even appear sharper out of camera on a regular basis because of the internal sharpening.

Of course, ability to resolve detail is not the final word when it comes to camera. I found that out several years ago when I was bummed that the pictures out of my wife's P-n-S 35mm camera were as sharp as those out of my 35 mm SLR. Looking at the pictures for a while, however, I began to notice that most of her pictures were snapshots while I did a whole lot more with mine. In fact, many of the pictures I took would be impossible to take with her P-n-S camera.

If resolution were the end all, I would have spent half the money and bought a Oly 4040.

I don't want to start a flame war and I'm not trying to imply you "just don't understand the E-10". (For all I know you could be the new Ansel Adams.) The way you worded your statment seemed to imply that we all thought the images from our camera didn't stand up to the DSC70 and we were coming up with a bunch of illiciate ideas for Dave to use to trick his brother into admitting the E-10 is sharper when we all really know it isn't. I don't know if it is or isn't, and don't really care, but I hate having people put words (or ideas) in my mouth.

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

 

[redline race pics]

Wow! Where to begin? I purchased my E10 in mid December and discovered this site about the same time. And like you I have learned much from it. I will be the first to admit that I am on the uphill side of the learning curve and probably taking the long route. But, dear Trent I can assure you I was not trying to put anything in your mouth! If you will notice my post was addressed to Dave, not as you said to everyone that responded. I too will use every advantage I can to produce a good product. However, Dave's question was framed in the context of which takes sharper images and how can they be spiffed up? While I understand using our tools to their best advantage I rather doubt that What Digital Camera, Comsumer Reports or even Mr. Askey trick out their images when doing a comparison. That was my point. Take the shot & let the chips fall where they may. As for your Ansel Adams ref. 30 years ago when I was taking Photo classes and trying to con my dad into the latest Nikon F whatever & a motor drive, he commented that Ansel Adams could take a great photo with a Kodak Brownie & I did'nt need all that stuff. A couple of weeks ago a fellow switching from a sony to Oly commented that he thought the colors were subdued. I don't recall his comments getting peoples panties in a bunch. Now Gonzo was right. Perhaps the E10 was the wrong choice for me. I dunno. We'll see. But I wanted a camera with a manual zoom, drive feature and frankly something that doesn't look like I got it at the discount TV store. I deal with a somewhat affluent client base and image(no pun intended) matters. As far as my results being "consumerish", that's OK as long as my cleints keep on consumin'.

After watching the forums for a month I thouhgt I might finally contrubute to the banter.

Welcome to the neighborhood, huh?

These "tricks" are the tools of digital photography we use every
day. Things like using F5.6 is good photography. When you look at
a great photo in a magazine do you think that the photographer just
pointed his/her camera and released the shutter and then printed
whatever came out of the camera? People have always used all types
of tips and tricks to get better photos, both before releasing the
shutter and after.

The whole idea of posting these tips is not to beat Sony, but to
help everyone here to become better digital photographers. I know
it's helped me.

A couple of other thoughts:

If it were only a point of ability to resolve detail, I'd just tell
Dave to print the resolution comparisons of the two cameras from
Phil's review. Obviously, the resolution is close enough that it
would be easy to make one camera or the other to appear to be
sharper. The DSC70, being a P-n-S camera, may even appear sharper
out of camera on a regular basis because of the internal sharpening.

Of course, ability to resolve detail is not the final word when it
comes to camera. I found that out several years ago when I was
bummed that the pictures out of my wife's P-n-S 35mm camera were as
sharp as those out of my 35 mm SLR. Looking at the pictures for
a while, however, I began to notice that most of her pictures were
snapshots while I did a whole lot more with mine. In fact, many of
the pictures I took would be impossible to take with her P-n-S
camera.

If resolution were the end all, I would have spent half the money
and bought a Oly 4040.

I don't want to start a flame war and I'm not trying to imply you
"just don't understand the E-10". (For all I know you could be the
new Ansel Adams.) The way you worded your statment seemed to imply
that we all thought the images from our camera didn't stand up to
the DSC70 and we were coming up with a bunch of illiciate ideas for
Dave to use to trick his brother into admitting the E-10 is sharper
when we all really know it isn't. I don't know if it is or isn't,
and don't really care, but I hate having people put words (or
ideas) in my mouth.

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

 

[LesDMess]

Dave,

Do you or your brother have an online album for samples of what you consider to be good subject matter. Since I am a newbie I am not particularly sure what is not sharp as I've always thought everything is particularly sharp such as this flower using the supercombo . . .



or this landscape bare bones . . .



or everyones favorite Cracker Barrel pastime . . .



You did ask! ;-) I hope this helps and I am looking forward to checking out those online albums.
LesDMess

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

--Oly SLR discussion group album http://www.fototime.com/inv/086F92046880B2F and http://www.fototime.com/inv/20392A0E8516C9A Once in fototime, click on the thumbnail to enlarge in a navigation window.

 

[Rembvrijn]

Hey Redline.... welcome to the neighborhood.

Like Trent, I was also taken aback by your post. I am glad you have continued and clarified your thoughts. As far as

Take the shot & let the chips fall where they may.

how is that to bo done? I dont know if the Sony offers various in-camera sharpening options, but the Oly offers 3. Which mode do you take the shot in in order for the chips to fall fairly? Okay, I just looked and the Sony has 5 settings. So which setting on the Sony will provide the most fair comparison? Remember, when you use ANY in camera sharpening, you are no longer viewing the picture the camera TOOK, you are viewing the picture that SOFTWARE/firmware ALTERED.

Is the only fair test one in which both camera took it with NO in-camera sharpening? If that's the case, it might show which camera takes a better picture but not which camera OUTPUTS the better picture.

There are too many variables to disallow postprocessing. I prefer to sharpen my own: so do most other E-10 users.

Am I making sense?

GageFX

Wow! Where to begin? I purchased my E10 in mid December and
discovered this site about the same time. And like you I have
learned much from it. I will be the first to admit that I am on the
uphill side of the learning curve and probably taking the long
route. But, dear Trent I can assure you I was not trying to put
anything in your mouth! If you will notice my post was addressed to
Dave, not as you said to everyone that responded. I too will use
every advantage I can to produce a good product. However, Dave's
question was framed in the context of which takes sharper images
and how can they be spiffed up? While I understand using our tools
to their best advantage I rather doubt that What Digital Camera,
Comsumer Reports or even Mr. Askey trick out their images when
doing a comparison. That was my point. Take the shot & let the
chips fall where they may. As for your Ansel Adams ref. 30 years
ago when I was taking Photo classes and trying to con my dad into
the latest Nikon F whatever & a motor drive, he commented that
Ansel Adams could take a great photo with a Kodak Brownie & I
did'nt need all that stuff. A couple of weeks ago a fellow
switching from a sony to Oly commented that he thought the colors
were subdued. I don't recall his comments getting peoples panties
in a bunch. Now Gonzo was right. Perhaps the E10 was the wrong
choice for me. I dunno. We'll see. But I wanted a camera with a
manual zoom, drive feature and frankly something that doesn't look
like I got it at the discount TV store. I deal with a somewhat
affluent client base and image(no pun intended) matters. As far as
my results being "consumerish", that's OK as long as my cleints
keep on consumin'.

After watching the forums for a month I thouhgt I might finally
contrubute to the banter.

Welcome to the neighborhood, huh?

 

[TrentMcD]

I'm sorry that I came across as harsh as I did. It's sometimes hard to write a reply that says everything you want to say without making it sound like a slam. I try not to make assumptions about anybody who posts here and I try to keep any argument on an impersonal level. I also try to stay away from saying bad things about other cameras.

I wasn't trying to say you didn't have a right to your opinion. When I read your statement, I just took it a little different than you meant and it rubbed me the wrong way. To tell you the truth, when I started writing my last post in this thread, the note took a mind of it's own and came out very different, and a lot harsher, than I originally meant.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and don't let any of our ranting get you down. Continue to keep an open mind about your E-10 and experiment with it as much as possible and I'm sure you'll grow to love it even more.

As a quick aside, I haven't used any Sony digicams, but I know that they have a reputation for having oversaturated colors. Some people like this, some hate it. It's a matter of taste. The E-10 has a reputation of having very natural colors. Next to a Sony picture, the E-10 pictures will look a little washed out and muted. If you like the saturated look, and many do, you can easily make your E-10 pictures brighter and more saturated. Most of the people on this forum like the flexibility of the more natural colors.

 

[Mark38311]

Dr G,

Why is it that each post that may question the E10's worth is splattered with your short sighted gibberish?

Great, you dedicated some time to maintaining a website....great you are happy with the money spent on YOUR camera.....great you are happy to have to tweak each photo in photoshop to make it look good. Some people have more time and money to waste than others.

Dave,
As the owner of an E-10 and a Sony s-75 don't all the PS tricks and
suggestions(shoot @ 5.6) etc. kind of prove your brothers point

If you are looking for comsumer-ish results straight out of the
camera, you'll be disappointed.

Quite the contrary.... In my experience E10 images (not the build quality) are much closer to "consumer-ish results" than even my "lowly" c2100.

As has been pointed out in this thread many times, the E-series is > designed with professional use in mind,

Keep telling yourself that. While the build quality of the camera is awesome and probably one of, if not THE best, in digicams today....image quality (the picture) from the E10 is severely lacking from a camera "designed with professional use in mind". After so much R&D into the body. OLY had to. and did, skimp somewhere to market the camera at the price they did.

so it delivers an image with the largest postprocessing
latitude possible (in terms of dynamic range and sharpening
artifacts).

Do you REALLY believe THAT?????

There are MANY digicams out there costing much less than the E10 that can be set to produce flat images("larger dynamic range") straight out of the camera.

SHARPENINING.... are you asking everyone to believe that the Exx delivers "sharp" images straight out of the camera? If that were true, the originator of this thread probably would not have started this thread. As far as post processing the image with sharpening/unsharp mask the E10 provides MUCH LESS to work with due to the amount of noise it produces.

If you're not appreciating the difference in terms of
color accuracy, it's possible the E-10 was never for you in the
first place.

Where did that even come from?
Redline made NO mention of "color accuaracy".

You are sooooo busy defending "your camera choice" AGAIN you are responding to words not written.

Yes this is the OLY SLR forum but people that have used the Exx cameras and find them less than they expected should be allowed to post thier thoughts and experiences WITHOUT.... YOUR..... CONSTANT..... personal offhanded remarks.

As an aside you once Challenged me to post some samples from my "consumerish" C2100uz... go to the below and compare my " consumerish" images to your "pro" image of the flowers. See any differences?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=2039525

STILL WAITING FOR THE CAMERA YOU OWE ME.

Mark

 

[Paul Taylor]

Brian, these pictures show for my the key difference between E-xx images and p&S cameras - Depth. In your E-20 image there is a foreground and a background, this is not evident in your Sony image.

Its similar IMHO to the difference between slide and print film. Colour accuracy and detail in the E-20 image is superior also.

Nice shots, thanks for posting.

regards,
Paul

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

Dave,

I dont Know if its relevant but please study the attached images,
both taken from the same position roughly one with my new E20 at
full zoom and the other with my old Sony S75 at full zoom with a
Tiffen X2 teleconvertor fitted ( = 210 mm approx) with vingetting.

The Sony is a summer photo and the E 20 is a winter photo and the
exposures are obviously different and colour balance etc will not
be equal but the reason i post the images is for interest realy as
I have cropped and zoomed into various areas and compared the
images and I would be hard pressed to pick from the cropped areas
which is the sharpest camera.

The originals are on my Pbase pages unaltered for anyone wishing to
experiment with them.

This may not be a fair test but my point is be careful about a head
to head test you may be dissapointed with the outcome.

I loved using my Sony S75 but no regrets about buying the E20 now I
have learned how to use it I am getting the results that please me.

I have read many posts on this Forum about OOF, Soft images etc,
etc from new OLY Exx users, I experienced all the same doubts about
focus and sharpness to begin with on both camera's when I learned
how to use them correctly my problems went away.

Any way enough of my ramblings here are the images.

Sony S75.



E20.



Brian.

 

[Rembvrijn]

No Mark, I bet you the camera.

But see, the deal was, you had to LEARN something in order to get the camera. It is clear you have not, therefore you get NO CAMERA.

I called you a troll in the last thread, I will say it again... you have been an @ss from the beginning, you apologized and you are back to your old ways. If you dont like the camera, SELL IT and GO AWAY.

GageFX

Why is it that each post that may question the E10's worth is
splattered with your short sighted gibberish?

Great, you dedicated some time to maintaining a website....great
you are happy with the money spent on YOUR camera.....great you are
happy to have to tweak each photo in photoshop to make it look
good. Some people have more time and money to waste than others.

Dave,
As the owner of an E-10 and a Sony s-75 don't all the PS tricks and
suggestions(shoot @ 5.6) etc. kind of prove your brothers point

If you are looking for comsumer-ish results straight out of the
camera, you'll be disappointed.

Quite the contrary.... In my experience E10 images (not the build
quality) are much closer to "consumer-ish results" than even my
"lowly" c2100.

As has been pointed out in this thread many times, the E-series is > designed with professional use in mind,

Keep telling yourself that. While the build quality of the camera
is awesome and probably one of, if not THE best, in digicams
today....image quality (the picture) from the E10 is severely
lacking from a camera "designed with professional use in mind".
After so much R&D into the body. OLY had to. and did, skimp
somewhere to market the camera at the price they did.

so it delivers an image with the largest postprocessing
latitude possible (in terms of dynamic range and sharpening
artifacts).

Do you REALLY believe THAT?????

There are MANY digicams out there costing much less than the E10
that can be set to produce flat images("larger dynamic range")
straight out of the camera.

SHARPENINING.... are you asking everyone to believe that the Exx
delivers "sharp" images straight out of the camera? If that were
true, the originator of this thread probably would not have started
this thread. As far as post processing the image with
sharpening/unsharp mask the E10 provides MUCH LESS to work with
due to the amount of noise it produces.

If you're not appreciating the difference in terms of
color accuracy, it's possible the E-10 was never for you in the
first place.

Where did that even come from?
Redline made NO mention of "color accuaracy".

You are sooooo busy defending "your camera choice" AGAIN you are
responding to words not written.

Yes this is the OLY SLR forum but people that have used the Exx
cameras and find them less than they expected should be allowed to
post thier thoughts and experiences WITHOUT.... YOUR.....
CONSTANT..... personal offhanded remarks.

As an aside you once Challenged me to post some samples from my
"consumerish" C2100uz... go to the below and compare my "
consumerish" images to your "pro" image of the flowers. See any
differences?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=2039525

STILL WAITING FOR THE CAMERA YOU OWE ME.

Mark

 

[brianf]

Brian, these pictures show for my the key difference between E-xx
images and p&S cameras - Depth. In your E-20 image there is a
foreground and a background, this is not evident in your Sony image.

Its similar IMHO to the difference between slide and print film.
Colour accuracy and detail in the E-20 image is superior also.

Nice shots, thanks for posting.

regards,
Paul

Thanks for the constructive comments Paul, Its the colour and the detail particularly distant detail in landscapes which I notice in the Oly E20 images.

I never realy got into film photography its digital and the convenience of it that got me started and now I have my E20 I have the flexibility to experiment and try to improve the quality and composition of my photo's.

Regards.

Brian.

 

[Mark38311]

I stand corrected and apologize to Dr Gonzo for inferring HE owed me the camera.

Between the both of you I took quite the beating for expressing my opinion of the E10 and actually lost track of who was who. I knew it was one of you, just wasnt sure which.

No Mark, I bet you the camera.

But see, the deal was, you had to LEARN something in order to get
the camera. It is clear you have not, therefore you get NO CAMERA.

Gage,I have "learned' plenty since you offered up YOUR camera. Some I already posted in the other thread. Here are several other things I " LEARNED"

1) Images from an E10 look no better than images taken with my C2100. That is backed up by the now 2 E10s I've had and careful examination of like images taken with both cameras and the C2100.

3) A "professional" digital camera does NOT mean a camera that produces noisey flat images that need tweaking and noise reduction routines to arrive at a useable image.

3) People like you and Dr G are so blinded with that chunk of aluminum in your hand, that when someone posts a negative comment about YOUR choice of camera you for SOME unknown reason feel the need to resort to personal insults.

4) The Exx series cameras are built like tanks...The C2100 is not

5) The C2100 will produce nice images straight out of the camera....The Exx will NOT.

6) The C2100 produces MUCH LESS NOISE resulting in sharperappearing images than the Exx camera.

7) Several of you name calling mud slinging people will continue to do as you have in the recent past WHENEVER someone mentions a fault found with the Exx.

8) You and the good Dr will continue to try to convince anyone considering an Exx that the camera is a "professional tool" or "aimed at the Pro market" yet you fail to mention that while OLY might have aimed at the "pro" market they missed the mark.....by quite a bit.

I called you a troll in the last thread, I will say it again...

Of course you will....its your "style".

Im not trolling for your responses or anyone elses. I offered up MY experience using the Exx vs the C2100... and true to your "style" you AGAIN resorted to childish name calling because my view differs from yours.

you have been an @ss from the beginning,

S T Y L E

you apologized and you are back to your old ways.

You and Dr G have a way of misreading posts or something... I never apologized. I had NOTHING to apologize for. I stated MY Experience and YOU two resorted to personal insults.

If you dont like the camera, SELL IT and GO AWAY.

Just returned the second one.... This time for a full refund.

GO AWAY? Not a chance.... there are other people that need to know the Exx is NOT digicam utopia ....as you and Dr G profess it is.

GageFX

So when You sending Me YOUR camera?

Mark

 

[Rembvrijn]

Mark, "Troll" is not a personal attack. It is a description for a person in a forum who just likes to stir up sh*t. I am not personally insulting you, but you may take it that way if you like. Makes no difference to me. I have NEVER attacked personally, nor will I as much as I would like to right at this moment.

You speak of "style". You say mine includes "and true to your "style" you AGAIN resorted to childish name calling because my view differs from yours.". Where have I resorted to childish name calling? If you do not understand the term "Troll", that is probably where your problem exists. You seem to think that it is acceptable to come into a forum to start fights and insult the members. It is NOT acceptable and that activity makes one a "troll".

Here is what I was resonding to and commenting on:

Why is it that each post that may question the E10's worth is splattered
with your short sighted gibberish?

The rest of your post is littered with the same immature attacks, insults, and inappropriate condescension.

I hear you have returned your E-10. Sorry it didnt work out for you. I also kindly suggest that since you no longer own an Oly SLR, feel free to remove yourself from the SLR forum and relieve us from your opinions.

GageFX

 

[TrentMcD]

landscape bare bones . . .

I don't know if it's a good example of sharpness or not, but the landscape is great. Don't see scenes like that in New Hampshire.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Dr G,

Why is it that each post that may question the E10's worth is
splattered with your short sighted gibberish?

I might ask you the same about any post that doesn't acknowledge a C2100.

Great, you dedicated some time to maintaining a website....great
you are happy with the money spent on YOUR camera.....great you are
happy to have to tweak each photo in photoshop to make it look
good. Some people have more time and money to waste than others.

Actually, I don't tweak many images in photoshop if I don't have to.

Dr. Gonzo wrote:
Quite the contrary.... In my experience E10 images (not the build
quality) are much closer to "consumer-ish results" than even my
"lowly" c2100.

And the thread was about a Sony, not a C2100. So the relevance of what you say is .... ?

Keep telling yourself that. While the build quality of the camera
is awesome and probably one of, if not THE best, in digicams
today....image quality (the picture) from the E10 is severely
lacking from a camera "designed with professional use in mind".
After so much R&D into the body. OLY had to. and did, skimp
somewhere to market the camera at the price they did.

You have just contradicted yourself, but that's okay, that happens a lot when you don't think before you post. Instead of going into a long explanation of what professional vis a vis features means, I'll simply say that the fact "Professional" is written on the box means that, by golly, the E-10 was designed with professional use in mind.

Do you REALLY believe THAT?????

Compared to a Sony, yes. Which is what this thread is about.

There are MANY digicams out there costing much less than the E10
that can be set to produce flat images("larger dynamic range")
straight out of the camera.

Any of them Sony S75s?

SHARPENINING.... are you asking everyone to believe that the Exx
delivers "sharp" images straight out of the camera? If that were
true, the originator of this thread probably would not have started
this thread. As far as post processing the image with
sharpening/unsharp mask the E10 provides MUCH LESS to work with
due to the amount of noise it produces.

My E-series has always produced good images out of the box; if I want them sharper, a little USM does nicely. See below for my comments on noise.

Where did that even come from?
Redline made NO mention of "color accuaracy".

Nor did he make any mention of sharpness. He made a generalized statement about "results" and if i'm not mistaken, that includes color accuracy.

You are sooooo busy defending "your camera choice" AGAIN you are
responding to words not written.

As are you, if one were to accept that as true.

Yes this is the OLY SLR forum but people that have used the Exx
cameras and find them less than they expected should be allowed to
post thier thoughts and experiences WITHOUT.... YOUR.....
CONSTANT..... personal offhanded remarks.

I'll say what I wish, thank you very much. I find the image quality of the E-series fine and would now never consider a C2100, having had the featureset of the E-series. I don't like EVFs and I despise electric zooms. I'd like more wide angle, but the uzi can't give me that.

As for cameras not meeting expectations, I already explained that. The E-series reads minds, and if it senses you doubting it, it will kindly oblige you.

As an aside you once Challenged me to post some samples from my
"consumerish" C2100uz... go to the below and compare my "
consumerish" images to your "pro" image of the flowers. See any
differences?

I'd appreciate if you'd find where I "challenged" you to anything. Don't put words into my mouth.

The differences I see in your images are that they are possibly cut flowers shot in a controlled environment with controlled lighting (flash?), on a contrasty background, whereas mine is a in-situ shot with available lighting done as a grab very early after I got my E-series. And while your images are nice, I don't think they are any better (or worse) than what the E-series can do. I respect and appreciate that the C2100 is a good camera, heck I almost bought one, but it > IS NOT THE CAMERA BEING COMPARED IN THIS THREAD

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=2039525

STILL WAITING FOR THE CAMERA YOU OWE ME.

I don't owe you anything, expect my foot in your backside if you continue to insist things about me which have no basis in fact. As for the thread you mention above, the poster SPECIFICALLY mentioned the E-series and the D7. That means your comments are off-topic, irrelevant and textbook trolling.

As an aside, you got me, mark. I got all worried about the noise issue the other night, although I never have worried about it before. DL'd some of the noise reduction actions/plugins being mentioned lately, and took a somewhat underexposed picture (not mine, but taken with my camera) and tried to correct it then print side by side with an uncorrected image. The difference was so negligible, it was not worth the time I waited for the plugin to process. That's the last time I listen to > YOU

I still find the noise issue overblown; nothing you've said or shown, and nothing i've seen has changed my mind.--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[excal]

Nice shots. but macros pretty much always look nice due to the shallow DOF and crispness that can be obtained.

But, I agree with the others Mark... please chill a little and be more sensitive to other people's feelings in the forum.

One point was raised though which is worthy of a little more comment. Colour accuracy - I have found that my Olympus cameras (whichever - the E10 or the E100RS) deliver better colour than my Nikon 995. I would image that the 2100 also has the same (pleasing) colour. I guess this is because Oly are RGBG and Nikon is CMYK CCD, but that's just an educated guess, by looking at the D1X samples here which look great for colour and I believe the D1X is RGBG again. Hey, maybe this would be an interesting discussion thread in itself. As to the Sony, I loved it from the review, right up until I saw the samples - that red bus! Sheesh, talk about over saturated! I'd much rather get the colour as it is and if I want to saturate, I'll do it myself in PS thanks Mr. A. N. Other Camera Maker.

--Excal

 

[Dave M]

Uh...okay....I guess I shouldn't have started such an incendiary topic...

Perhaps next time I'll keep it simple and just politely ask if anyone knows of a good book on digital photography!

-

• Dave M.

Dr G,

Why is it that each post that may question the E10's worth is
splattered with your short sighted gibberish?

I might ask you the same about any post that doesn't acknowledge a
C2100.

Great, you dedicated some time to maintaining a website....great
you are happy with the money spent on YOUR camera.....great you are
happy to have to tweak each photo in photoshop to make it look
good. Some people have more time and money to waste than others.

Actually, I don't tweak many images in photoshop if I don't have to.

Dr. Gonzo wrote:
Quite the contrary.... In my experience E10 images (not the build
quality) are much closer to "consumer-ish results" than even my
"lowly" c2100.

And the thread was about a Sony, not a C2100. So the relevance of
what you say is .... ?

Keep telling yourself that. While the build quality of the camera
is awesome and probably one of, if not THE best, in digicams
today....image quality (the picture) from the E10 is severely
lacking from a camera "designed with professional use in mind".
After so much R&D into the body. OLY had to. and did, skimp
somewhere to market the camera at the price they did.

You have just contradicted yourself, but that's okay, that happens
a lot when you don't think before you post. Instead of going into a
long explanation of what professional vis a vis features means,
I'll simply say that the fact "Professional" is written on the box
means that, by golly, the E-10 was designed with professional use
in mind.

Do you REALLY believe THAT?????

Compared to a Sony, yes. Which is what this thread is about.

There are MANY digicams out there costing much less than the E10
that can be set to produce flat images("larger dynamic range")
straight out of the camera.

Any of them Sony S75s?

SHARPENINING.... are you asking everyone to believe that the Exx
delivers "sharp" images straight out of the camera? If that were
true, the originator of this thread probably would not have started
this thread. As far as post processing the image with
sharpening/unsharp mask the E10 provides MUCH LESS to work with
due to the amount of noise it produces.

My E-series has always produced good images out of the box; if I
want them sharper, a little USM does nicely. See below for my
comments on noise.

Where did that even come from?
Redline made NO mention of "color accuaracy".

Nor did he make any mention of sharpness. He made a generalized
statement about "results" and if i'm not mistaken, that includes
color accuracy.

You are sooooo busy defending "your camera choice" AGAIN you are
responding to words not written.

As are you, if one were to accept that as true.

Yes this is the OLY SLR forum but people that have used the Exx
cameras and find them less than they expected should be allowed to
post thier thoughts and experiences WITHOUT.... YOUR.....
CONSTANT..... personal offhanded remarks.

I'll say what I wish, thank you very much. I find the image quality
of the E-series fine and would now never consider a C2100, having
had the featureset of the E-series. I don't like EVFs and I despise
electric zooms. I'd like more wide angle, but the uzi can't give me
that.

As for cameras not meeting expectations, I already explained that.
The E-series reads minds, and if it senses you doubting it, it will
kindly oblige you.

As an aside you once Challenged me to post some samples from my
"consumerish" C2100uz... go to the below and compare my "
consumerish" images to your "pro" image of the flowers. See any
differences?

I'd appreciate if you'd find where I "challenged" you to anything.
Don't put words into my mouth.

The differences I see in your images are that they are possibly cut
flowers shot in a controlled environment with controlled lighting
(flash?), on a contrasty background, whereas mine is a in-situ shot
with available lighting done as a grab very early after I got my
E-series. And while your images are nice, I don't think they are
any better (or worse) than what the E-series can do. I respect and
appreciate that the C2100 is a good camera, heck I almost bought
one, but it > IS NOT THE CAMERA BEING COMPARED IN THIS THREAD

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=2039525

STILL WAITING FOR THE CAMERA YOU OWE ME.

I don't owe you anything, expect my foot in your backside if you
continue to insist things about me which have no basis in fact. As
for the thread you mention above, the poster SPECIFICALLY mentioned
the E-series and the D7. That means your comments are off-topic,
irrelevant and textbook trolling.

--

• Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

--Dave M

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

It's not your fault, dave. By the way, how did your images come out?--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html