Any "Sharp" Photo Suggestions?

[Dave M]

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills and the quality of the E-10.)--Dave M

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Several things possible, but whether they are desirable is another question. Remember that the E-series is aimed at professionals, and thus tends to choose less in-camera processing in favor of greater postprocessing latitude. The DSC-S70 might do more in-camera processing to put out a more "ready to print" image, but offers less latitude in postprocessing due to this.

You can try: 1) turn up the sharpening and/or contrast on the E-10 (at the risk of greater artifacting/clipping), 2) use unsharp mask in postprocessing, 3) shoot subjects you know the sony will have trouble with in terms of color fidelity -- which is one of the E-10's strong points, 4) shoot around f5.6 which many report is the "Sweet spot" of this lens, 5) work with your positioning to get the background to blur out.

As for composition, just about anything will do that has nice sharp edges... I find that relative close-up headshots work well too, as the skin detail really shows in E images. Flowers are always a safe bet for showing sharpness.

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[Chris Charlton]

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

Black and White shots are good for contrast and texture, observe...

http://www.pbase.com/bartsimpson1234/3030z_pics

Chris

 

[Dave M]

Thanks for the reminder about "the sweet spot". I won't turn up the sharpening or contrast on the E-10 itself, since I do most of my sharpening work in PS so I can control the details better. And the flower shot is a good suggestion too...I'll use it as one of my test shots.

I was also thinking of maybe doing a forest landscape scene. Nothing awe-inspiring, necessarily, but enough to get plenty of fine contrasting lines in the timber; with it being winter there aren't any leaves to blur the image either.

(BTW, I misspelled "Ferenc's" handle in my original post. Whups!)

• Dave M.

You can try: 1) turn up the sharpening and/or contrast on the E-10
(at the risk of greater artifacting/clipping), 2) use unsharp mask
in postprocessing, 3) shoot subjects you know the sony will have
trouble with in terms of color fidelity -- which is one of the
E-10's strong points, 4) shoot around f5.6 which many report is the
"Sweet spot" of this lens, 5) work with your positioning to get the
background to blur out.

As for composition, just about anything will do that has nice sharp
edges... I find that relative close-up headshots work well too, as
the skin detail really shows in E images. Flowers are always a safe
bet for showing sharpness.

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

--

• Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

--Dave M

 

[excal]

Use RAW - far less noise so you can sharpen further!

I was also thinking of maybe doing a forest landscape scene.
Nothing awe-inspiring, necessarily, but enough to get plenty of
fine contrasting lines in the timber; with it being winter there
aren't any leaves to blur the image either.

(BTW, I misspelled "Ferenc's" handle in my original post. Whups!)

• Dave M.

You can try: 1) turn up the sharpening and/or contrast on the E-10
(at the risk of greater artifacting/clipping), 2) use unsharp mask
in postprocessing, 3) shoot subjects you know the sony will have
trouble with in terms of color fidelity -- which is one of the
E-10's strong points, 4) shoot around f5.6 which many report is the
"Sweet spot" of this lens, 5) work with your positioning to get the
background to blur out.

As for composition, just about anything will do that has nice sharp
edges... I find that relative close-up headshots work well too, as
the skin detail really shows in E images. Flowers are always a safe
bet for showing sharpness.

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

--

• Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

--
Dave M

--Excal

 

[larry41017]

RAW mode will produce finer, more sharp details. Be sure to use
a tripod, and F5.6 apeture...

 

[PhotoQuests]

I agree, the E-XX really shows its capabilities on close-up shots and head shots. Here is an example of one of the sharpest images I have seen come out of my E-XX. This is a low resolution jpeg so it is hard to tell from the posting, but the full tiff version is so sharp you can see the individual ridges and scales on each "leaf" of the pine branch.

My brother contends that his Sony DSC70 takes sharper images than
my Oly E-10. Now, I know that this is wrong myself and could do
some side-by-side comparisons of images to prove it. However, I'd
really just like to take a new shot of a particular image that
would really show off the capabilities of my E-10. I'll dress it
up with PS and print it in QImage, of course---I've been closely
following Verenc & Co.'s threads on sharpening---but what I really
need are suggestions on composition.

Does anyone have any ideas? I would assume that the shot would
have to have subjects with a great deal of contrasted
detail---texture, complicated imagery, etc.

Thanks in advance for comments rendered!

• Dave M.

(P.S. I'm not about to critique the DSC70--it's a decent p-and-s
digicam. I really just want to show off my own photographic skills
and the quality of the E-10.)
--
Dave M

--Steve Cerocke

 

[TrentMcD]

RAW mode will produce finer, more sharp details. Be sure to use
a tripod, and F5.6 apeture...

I agree with Larry but would add that you should take off any filters. I have read that filters add noise. I just did some test shots and yes, my uv filter adds quite a bit of noise.

Another thing to try. If you are shooting a still life, take 4 pictures in a row in raw, with no filter, on a tripod, at F5.6 and using your remote (remember to shut the eyepiece). Add the four pictures as layers in PS and use 25% of the top layer, 50% of next, 75% of next and 100% of base. I've never tried this, but somebody once posted some examples using this technique that were great.

 

[R.S. Adams]

Dave,

I've been photographer for 35 years. Here's my best advice:

1. Re sharpening.. go to http://www.luminous-landscape.com and look at the "Instant Photoshop" page re using "Unsharp Mask" and sharpening the lightness channel in "Lab Mode" ... also always sharpen as a "last action" before printing.

2. TRIPOD.

3. TRIPOD.

4. TRIPOD. There is no substitute for this.

5. A scene with lots of lighting, AND color contrast, e.g. Blue against yellow, etc. re a standard color-wheel.

6. It isn't the "close up" -ness of shots that makes for apparent contrast, it is the sharp vs. soft that does that. W/ the E cameras, the depth of field is so great that the only way you get this is either with close up, or focusing relatively close while using telephoto setting, or telephoto lens add-on.

6. Keep the post processing as simple as possible. Every major tweak you make will cost you something in image quality.

Best of luck . . .
Scott

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I am quite intrigued by this filter vs. noise discussion. What exact UV filter were you using?

I agree with Larry but would add that you should take off any
filters. I have read that filters add noise. I just did some test
shots and yes, my uv filter adds quite a bit of noise.

Another thing to try. If you are shooting a still life, take 4
pictures in a row in raw, with no filter, on a tripod, at F5.6 and
using your remote (remember to shut the eyepiece). Add the four
pictures as layers in PS and use 25% of the top layer, 50% of next,
75% of next and 100% of base. I've never tried this, but somebody
once posted some examples using this technique that were great.

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[WARPSTUDIO]

Hi Dave

The comments above already answers your question much better than I ever could. I just wanted to add that the first thing I would do is get him to bet you a lot of money;?) It might be fun to let members of the sony and Olympus slr forums do the judging. It would be interesting to see how many would vote for the loser knowing it was their cam.
Good Luck!! Will Walton

 

[TrentMcD]

It's a relatively cheap UV, not sure of brand. I'm not at home so I can't check.

When I'm at home and have the time I'll post the results of the tests I did. I took 4 shots, 2 jpg, 2 raw, one of each with filter and one of each without. The raw with the filter had less noise than the jpg without, but had more than the raw without.

I agree with Larry but would add that you should take off any
filters. I have read that filters add noise. I just did some test
shots and yes, my uv filter adds quite a bit of noise.

Another thing to try. If you are shooting a still life, take 4
pictures in a row in raw, with no filter, on a tripod, at F5.6 and
using your remote (remember to shut the eyepiece). Add the four
pictures as layers in PS and use 25% of the top layer, 50% of next,
75% of next and 100% of base. I've never tried this, but somebody
once posted some examples using this technique that were great.

--

• Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[Dave M]

Well, again, this isn't me being defensive about the E-10...this is strictly sibling rivalry and ego

I'm most interested in getting properly composed shots that would highlight the sharpness of the E-10'x images. For instance, a brilliantly colored sunset over the ocean may be a beautiful image, but may not adequately show off the finer details I need. A shot of a pile of weathered wood lying in grass, however, probably would.

So I'm just hoping to get suggestions for those sorts of things. Good ideas so far! (And yes, I'll post the ones I eventually take.)

• Dave M.

Hi Dave
The comments above already answers your question much better than I
ever could. I just wanted to add that the first thing I would do is
get him to bet you a lot of money;?) It might be fun to let members
of the sony and Olympus slr forums do the judging. It would be
interesting to see how many would vote for the loser knowing it was
their cam.
Good Luck!! Will Walton

--Dave M

 

[TrentMcD]

Dr. Gonzo,

I can't find the name anyplace so I'm assuming it must be pretty cheap. I got it at 17th St. Camera, the only 62mm UV I could find there when I ordered the camera.

Looking at the pictures again, there is a big difference in the jpg files between using the filter and not. The difference in the raw files are smaller and barely noticible under 200%.

Do you (or anybody) have a good filter (Hoya?) that you can use to test this?

Trent

I agree with Larry but would add that you should take off any
filters. I have read that filters add noise. I just did some test
shots and yes, my uv filter adds quite a bit of noise.

Another thing to try. If you are shooting a still life, take 4
pictures in a row in raw, with no filter, on a tripod, at F5.6 and
using your remote (remember to shut the eyepiece). Add the four
pictures as layers in PS and use 25% of the top layer, 50% of next,
75% of next and 100% of base. I've never tried this, but somebody
once posted some examples using this technique that were great.

--

• Dr. G.

E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[TrentMcD]

Another thing to try. If you are shooting a still life, take 4
pictures in a row in raw, with no filter, on a tripod, at F5.6 and
using your remote (remember to shut the eyepiece). Add the four
pictures as layers in PS and use 25% of the top layer, 50% of next,
75% of next and 100% of base. I've never tried this, but somebody
once posted some examples using this technique that were great.

I found this on a web site when I first started looking into the E-10. I'm sorry I don't remember where it was, so I can't give credit where it is due. I just did this test. Here are the results:

First image is a straight crop at 100% of a raw file. Besides cropping, reduced to 8 bit. Saved as a jpg at 11 in PhotoShop.

Second image is using the four layer method. All I did was reduce to 8 bits, add the four layers as explained above and then crop. Saved as jpg at 11 in PS.





If you can't see the difference, download and look at 200%. It is most noticeable in the wall behind the sculpture.

I haven't had time to print yet, but the on screen results look great.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I have a Hoya UV(0) [single-coated i think] and a Hoya SuperHMC UV(0). I'll try to run some tests this weekend if i can find the time. What did you take pictures of? the sky?

Dr. Gonzo,

I can't find the name anyplace so I'm assuming it must be pretty
cheap. I got it at 17th St. Camera, the only 62mm UV I could find
there when I ordered the camera.

Looking at the pictures again, there is a big difference in the jpg
files between using the filter and not. The difference in the raw
files are smaller and barely noticible under 200%.

Do you (or anybody) have a good filter (Hoya?) that you can use to
test this?

Trent

--- Dr. G.E-10 FAQ: http://www.tokenasians.com/articles/e10faq.html

 

[Blokey Bloggs]

Hi Dr Gonzo

I think http://www.wrotniak.net mentions UV filters causing a little extra noise.--Blokey http://www.pbase.com/blokey/galleries

 

[TrentMcD]

What did you take pictures of? the sky?

I had an object casting shadows on an off white wall. I seem to have more problems with large blank surfaces, like walls, than anything else.

Here are 100% clips:



jpg with filter



jpg without filter



raw with filter



raw no filter

In this clip the raw with the filter has about the same noise level as without, but overall the picture with the filter is slightly noisier.

I don't know if resaving everything as jpg made a difference or if I just chose a bad clip area (I chose it because it was easy to get the exact place on each image, but the differences between the images is much more dramatic with the full images in PS.

 

[TrentMcD]

I just checked and it took forever to bring up these pictures. Everything on my website is equally slow. I think the company hosting it is having problems.

Sorry if you can't see any of the pictures I posted or if they take forever to load.

On the plus side, I printed the four-layer picture. It is by far the cleanest, sharpest print from my E-10 yet. I recomend trying it.

 

[larry41017]

Subjects: sand grains, grass... ;-)