Answers from Olympus

[Steve Price]

Hi Jola

It could be (and I posted a hypothetical, but completely plausible scenario in another thread), that v 78 is backwards compatable with some hardware configurations that are supported by v 77, but not for all of them. Another possibility is that the change from v 77 to v 78 requires a half turn of some adjustment screw (for instance) to change a voltage at some pin. And it is, of course, possible that some hardware exchange was made at the same time. Much of what goes into things is modular, and can simply be snapped in and out in seconds.

The short answer to your question is that I don't actually know what was done, but my mind isn't boggled by it and I have no trouble thinking of possibilities that involve neither malice nor stupidity on the part of the Olympus folks.

Regards,

Steve Price

Olympus claims that the various firmware versions simply support
different combinations of hardware that they use in making the
camera. That is, v. 78 is not an "upgrade" from v. 77, just a
version taht supports slightly different hardware. Is this the
truth? I can't think of any reason why they would lie about it,
other than stupidity or malice toward their customers. Those don't
seem likely to me.

Then how would you explain Framer's 5050 v77 that was upgraded in
20 minutes to a v78? Of which half the time was probably taken to
do the paperwork. Certainly not enough time for hardware changes.

Most of these companies, including Olympus, I'm sure, produce
upwards compatible firmware, ie older hardware revisions will still
work with the new firmware, and any bug fixes / enhancements will
carry through.

I am sure that the newer firmware caters for hardware changes, but
I don't for one moment believe that it doesn't incorporate bug
fixes.

 

[Steve Price]

Hi Jola

Just to keep the record straight: Nikon provides user-installable firmwares for most, but not all of their cameras. The ones for which a user can only change firmware by sending it back to Nikon are the digital SLR.

Now, am I to conclude that there is incompetent engineering at Nikon in the division that makes high end digital cameras? That's your explanation for why Olympus won't let users change firmware themselves, so I'd guess it would apply to Nikon, too. But I'll bet Nikon has a different explanation, and that it's the truth.

Regards

Steve Price

Steve, firmware is normally written in such a way that all the
older hardware revisions would work with the latest firmware
version. Not to do so would be suicidal, and it is quite clear
that all the other camera manufacturers follow the upwards
compatible approach. It is fairly simple to do this type of
conditional programming, and most (all ?) manufacturers of
electronic devices do this.

It is of course possible that Olympus have a lack of technical
expertise and follow the approach that you suggest. But although I
do not agree with their standpoint on the firmware upgrades, I
don't for a moment believe that they have a lack of technical
expertise, which you seem to be implying.

They have just taken a view, made a decision, and come hell or high
water will stick to it. So have Sony, for that matter, but because
their cameras have too many disadvantages (memory stick,
proprietary batteries, weird shapes) for me to even consider them,
I am not really interested in what they do.

But the others that do provide these upgrades (Nikon (5000, 5400,
5700, etc) and Canon (G2, G3, G5), Minolta, etc., certainly do
attract my interest. I just think that it indicates a more mature
and responsible approach, and certainly is more considering of the
people who pay their salaries.

 

[Jola]

Hi Jola

Just to keep the record straight: Nikon provides user-installable
firmwares for most, but not all of their cameras. The ones for
which a user can only change firmware by sending it back to Nikon
are the digital SLR.

Yes, I am aware of that. Canon, however, does provide firmware upgrades for their dSLR's.

But dSLR's are a different ballgame. They are subject to a number of issues that the P&S cameras are not, such as CCD contamination, etc. I don't know why Nikon doesn't provide these firmware upgrades for dSLR's but can easily come up with reasons. Why don't you just pop over to the Nikon dSLR forum and see what their problems are? I have.

The point is that Nikon DOES provide user upgradeable firmware for all their cameras in the same P&S category as the Olympus 5050. Why are you trying to distract attention from this? Do you have an ulterior motive? - dSLR's have never been the topic here.

Now, am I to conclude that there is incompetent engineering at
Nikon in the division that makes high end digital cameras? That's
your explanation for why Olympus won't let users change firmware
themselves, so I'd guess it would apply to Nikon, too. But I'll
bet Nikon has a different explanation, and that it's the truth.

You are the one who keeps implicitly insisting that Olympus, Nikon dSLR division, etc are technical morons, and I keep insisting that it is the opposite. Why do you do this?

I have always said that I have no question about Olympus' technical skills but that I do question their marketing skills and support policies. That's where the decision not to provide the firmware to users was made, and the Olympus Technical staff have told me as much in my e-mail exchanges with them. It is quite clear from the tone of their letters that they have no interest in getting involved in this issue, and that they just pass it on to the policy-makers in the organisation.

 

[Steve Price]

Hi Jola

Let me focus on just a few points here.

Yes, I am aware of that ("that" being that Nikon does not allow users to change firmware in their digital SLRs). Canon, however, does provide firmware upgrades for their dSLR's. ... But dSLR's are a different ballgame. They are subject to a number of issues that the P&S cameras are not, such as CCD contamination...

Jola, how do you imagine uploading new firmware can contaminate the CCD? Or am I missing the point here altogether? A digital SLR is different in some ways than a "prosumer" model, but it isn't obvious to me why firmware compatability should be asumed to be easy to engineer in one and impossible in the other. If Canon can do it, why can't Nikon? This is a very small variation on your central theme: other manufacturers do something that you wish Olympus would do; if they can do it, why can't Olympus? And if you are willing to accept Nikon's explanation for why they won't let users do it with their dSLR, why is it impossible to accept Olympus' explanation for why they won't let users do it at all?

Why are you trying to distract attention from this? Do you have an
ulterior motive? - dSLR's have never been the topic here.

I have no financial or emotional stake in Olympus or any other camera-related company. Introducing the subject of the Nikon dSLR was nothing more or less than a response to your assertion that every camera manufacturer except Olympus allows the user to upload firmware. Unless Nikon is not a camera manufacturer or their dSLR is not a camera, the Nikon dSLR is not a distraction, it's a relevant fact. I don't recall whether it was you or someone else who, somewhere on this forum, said that NO professional would ever buy a camera with firmware that he couldn't upgrade himself and that the pro market would be closed to Olympus for that reason. That was the point at which I introduced the Nikon dSLR into the discussion. Nikon makes and sells a pro camera with firmware that the user can't change.

You are the one who keeps implicitly insisting that Olympus, Nikon
dSLR division, etc are technical morons, and I keep insisting that
it is the opposite. Why do you do this?

I have NEVER suggested that Nikon (dSLR division) or Olympus are technically incompetent. I listed that as a possible explanation for their not providing user changeable firmware. Another possible explanation is yours - that they are pigheaded in marketing and customer service. My position all along has been, and still is, that the most likely explanation is that they are telling the truth when they say that allowing the user to make the change entails risk and probably has little or no benefit.

Regards,

Steve Price

 

[Jola]

Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:05:22 -0400
From:
[ Add to Address Book ~ Block Address ~ Report as Spam ]
To:
Subject: RE:Ask Olympus:Filmless_Digital_Cameras [#230784]

Dear

Thank you for contacting Olympus Digital Technical Support.

I suggest you contact the Customer Service department by calling 1-800-622-6372. Press extension 2701, and a representative will assist you. Customer Service handles matters having to deal with repairs and firmware upgrades. Technical Support is not provided access to the firmware information in order to provide it to customers. They should be able to elaborate more on why the camera must be sent to the repair facility to perform any upgrades. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

This is your Email Response Tracking Number : 230784. Please use this number if you need to refer to this email for further assistance. You can also browse our website by visiting http://www.olympusamerica.com/

Regards,
Richard

Digital Technical Support
Olympus America, Inc.

As far as I am concerned that response tells me that this is a marketing policy issue and has nothing to do with the Technical Support Divisions, as I have been saying all along.

WRT the rest of your comments:

Let me focus on just a few points here.

Yes, I am aware of that ("that" being that Nikon does not allow users to change firmware in their digital SLRs). Canon, however, does provide firmware upgrades for their dSLR's. ... But dSLR's are a different ballgame. They are subject to a number of issues that the P&S cameras are not, such as CCD contamination...

Jola, how do you imagine uploading new firmware can contaminate the
CCD?

Steve, stop being silly, you are just being deliberate! It was quite clear from what I was saying that there are other issues when looking at dSLR's. The CCD's, for example, get dirty very easily, and many users cannot clean it themselves, you have to have very nimble fingers to do this properly - even though I am quite dextrous it is one of the issues making me nervous about buying a dSLR. A lot of poor quality images can be ascribed to contaminated CCD's, and it would be logical for Nikon to want to check this before doing anything else.

Or am I missing the point here altogether?

Yes !!! I think deliberately!

A digital SLR is
different in some ways than a "prosumer" model, but it isn't
obvious to me why firmware compatability should be asumed to be
easy to engineer in one and impossible in the other. If Canon can
do it, why can't Nikon? This is a very small variation on your
central theme: other manufacturers do something that you wish
Olympus would do; if they can do it, why can't Olympus? And if you
are willing to accept Nikon's explanation for why they won't let
users do it with their dSLR, why is it impossible to accept
Olympus' explanation for why they won't let users do it at all?

I didn't want to bring dSLR's into this in the first place, you did! And see my comment above.

Why are you trying to distract attention from this? Do you have an
ulterior motive? - dSLR's have never been the topic here.

I have no financial or emotional stake in Olympus or any other
camera-related company. Introducing the subject of the Nikon dSLR
was nothing more or less than a response to your assertion that
every camera manufacturer except Olympus allows the user to upload
firmware. Unless Nikon is not a camera manufacturer or their dSLR
is not a camera, the Nikon dSLR is not a distraction, it's a
relevant fact. I don't recall whether it was you or someone else
who, somewhere on this forum, said that NO professional would ever
buy a camera with firmware that he couldn't upgrade himself and
that the pro market would be closed to Olympus for that reason.
That was the point at which I introduced the Nikon dSLR into the
discussion. Nikon makes and sells a pro camera with firmware that
the user can't change.

Again, dSLR's are not the same as P&S cameras (and the C-5050Z is not a dSLR), but I take your point on this issue, and maybe I would stick to Canon when buying my dSLR for this reason.

You are the one who keeps implicitly insisting that Olympus, Nikon
dSLR division, etc are technical morons, and I keep insisting that
it is the opposite. Why do you do this?

I have NEVER suggested that Nikon (dSLR division) or Olympus are
technically incompetent. I listed that as a possible explanation
for their not providing user changeable firmware. Another possible
explanation is yours - that they are pigheaded in marketing and
customer service. My position all along has been, and still is,
that the most likely explanation is that they are telling the truth
when they say that allowing the user to make the change entails
risk and probably has little or no benefit.

See the above letter from Olympus Technical - this seems to support the view that they are pigheaded in marketing and customer service. The Technical guys are trying to distance themselves from the issue. IMO because there is no technical issue, only a policy issue.

Regards

Jola

 

[Steve Price]

Hi Jola

I read the e-mail message you got from Olympus, and it says pretty clearly that if you call the number that they gave, you'll get someone who can explain why the company won't let users change firmware themselves. As an alternative to announcing

As far as I am concerned that response tells me that this is a
marketing policy issue ...

why not call the number and hear what they have to say? They might have a reason, it might be one that makes sense. It might not. If the person on the other end gives you an answer that doesn't satisfy you, ask questions until you reach a dead end. You might even get someone who will send you uploadable firmwares (all 8 versions - 76 through 83) by e-mail, so you can keep changing them, find the one that you like best and get this over with.

Regards,

Steve Price

 

[Jola]

Hi Steve

Unfortunately you can't call 800 numbers from outside the USA.

I also wouldn't put money on that the level of person that you would get at that number would have any idea apart from what he/she has been told.

That's the way with call centres unfortunately. Just there to block us.

Regards

Jola

 

[Ben Herrmann]

Inigo:

I'm open to any and all information about this. I will say this though, when I called "Vancam" in Vancouver, BC, they had a very courteous, "matter-of-fact" response to my questions - all centering around, "sure, you can send it to us and we'll do the upgrades - some of which will address the issues I raised." So this surprised me of course and caused me to be quite persistent in this regard.

I'll let you know for sure because Olympus in Cypress, California currently has my camera and is checking it over, calibration, etc. In my letter to them I also requested the possibility of an firmware revision adjustment, so I'll see what they do. If, in fact I get the camera back with the updated firmware, then I suppose that should speak volumes about the problems that I passed on them.

Everything you say makes sense - sorry if I appeared as though I ignored that. I tend to gloss over threads - and a bad side effect of that is that I'll miss key sentences. Your input lends additional information and insight as to why manufacturers release these updates. I appreciate that.

When I get my unit back, I'll report if any improvements have been made, if the firmware was upgraded, etc. If nothing was done, I will report that also and then, I assure you, will be the last time I ever mention firmware again. In fact, I'm at the stage where I'm "all firmwared out." I don't even want to hear that word anymore - lol.

Have a great one...

Regards...

Ben Herrmann
Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina USA

 

[Inigo Montoya]

If the firmware is the same, and performance improved, we'll gain a small data point, as we might also if only the firmware was updated and things improved. I suspect we might see something like "R&R " along with a firmware update. At that point, we may never know if the update included part of a fix, or was merely to support a component in the module used to R&R the "item".

Whatever they do, I hope that when it returns your camera is performing to your satisfaction - that's the important part.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Utter nonsense. You're the one who bought the camera. No one forced you to. Unless you can show me the announcement where Olympus promised free, user installable firmware upgrades, you have no basis for this position.

I bought my last car from a dealer that provides me with a free loaner any time I bring it in for service. They regularly advertise this as a selling point of their dealership. (Ted Britt Ford in Fairfax, Virginia for those interested). If I'd bought a car from some other dealer would they be cheating me if they didn't also give me a free service loaner? I don't think so. I may have bought the wrong car, or bought from the wrong dealer, but that's on me, not the company that never made any promise of a free loaner.

And I also have no illusion that it's really a free loaner. I haven't compared rates, but I'm sure they've bundled the cost of providing the "free" loaners into their repair and service charges.

Likewise, what you perceive to be "FREE" downloads from web-sites of other manufacturer's are far more likely an additional fee (say, $50-$100 for the sake of argument) they build into the sales price of their cameras.

Have you priced a comparable Nikon vs a 5050 lately?

 

[iamphil]

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Every other digicam maker? I must have missed something.

 

[Michael Louis]

Hello,

I can think of several reasons why Oly doesn't feel comfortable with firmware upgrades freely given to the public.

First, if most firmware upgrades actually do apply to different hardware componants, most folks won't need the upgrade.

More important, if a firmware upgrade fails, and the camera refuses to boot then Oly is responcible to replace the camera, even if they give a warning. If I am wrong on this point it still leads to a worse customer relations fiasco (non working camera) than refusing to give freely firmware upgrades for fully functioning cameras.

So it's cheaper and safer to wait for someone to complain about a problem and have a trained tech upgrade the firware; if indeed it's even needed.

Lastly, on a different note, I have yet to see one single person give any before and after photos using some kind of controlled setting to actually see what the difference in firwares actually do.

Until I see something concrete I am sticking with v77 as I don't find any fault at all with it, and I have no comparative shots to change my mind.
Michael

PS. It wouldn't surprise me if some companies sometimes give bogus firmware upgrades so tech junkies feel like they are tweaking and making better their equipment.

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Every other digicam maker? I must have missed something.

 

[eL47288]

I suppose you would buy a new car that read anything on the odometer? Then in the next two months they were able to zero the odometer consistently and improve handling and performance. You wouldn't care right? Even when it came to sell the car when you were asked about the milage?

The price Olympus charges for their camera is similar to what other manufacturers charge who offer better software and a free firmware upgrade. The materials of the camera are the same unless there are some gold coins in there I don't know about. Face it. Olympus user firmware availability is just the adult version of overdomineering parental authoritarianism. It has nothing to do with improving the product or the size of the customer base.

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Utter nonsense. You're the one who bought the camera. No one
forced you to. Unless you can show me the announcement where
Olympus promised free, user installable firmware upgrades, you have
no basis for this position.

I bought my last car from a dealer that provides me with a free
loaner any time I bring it in for service. They regularly
advertise this as a selling point of their dealership. (Ted Britt
Ford in Fairfax, Virginia for those interested). If I'd bought a
car from some other dealer would they be cheating me if they didn't
also give me a free service loaner? I don't think so. I may have
bought the wrong car, or bought from the wrong dealer, but that's
on me, not the company that never made any promise of a free loaner.

And I also have no illusion that it's really a free loaner. I
haven't compared rates, but I'm sure they've bundled the cost of
providing the "free" loaners into their repair and service charges.

Likewise, what you perceive to be "FREE" downloads from web-sites
of other manufacturer's are far more likely an additional fee
(say, $50-$100 for the sake of argument) they build into the sales
price of their cameras.

Have you priced a comparable Nikon vs a 5050 lately?

--
eL

 

[eL47288]

Now you cannot buy an Olympus camera early like the c750uz when it comes out because the firmware matures at the end of the product life cycle.

So you hold off on purchase until the price drops, you will have the last revision of firmware, and you won't have to send the camera in for a firmware upgrade. Send in firmware upgrades is a nice marketing dream called vapor-ware similar to steam or clouds.

This is what Olympus emailed me back in regards to a few questions
I had.

"When using a digital camera to photograph subjects that are very
strongly back lit, a purple or white halo effect may be present in
high contrast areas of the image. For example, this could occur
when photographing beams of light coming through leaves of a tree.
This phenomenon is normal and is not a malfunction of the digital
camera. It appears when different wavelengths of light are not
focused onto the same focal point when going through the camera
lens. An UV filter can be used to minimize the effect.

Olympus does not offer firmware upgrades that can be loaded by the
customer. In the rare event that a firmware update is released,
the camera must be sent in to the service center to have the
firmware updated. Olympus rarely produces a fimware update. Most
updates do not enhance or add features to the camera. The cost of
the update will depend on each situation and the reason the update
was released".

--
eL

 

[Bish]

well, buy the other brand camera...

everything is a tradeoff, particularly at this price and this is another of them...

The price Olympus charges for their camera is similar to what other
manufacturers charge who offer better software and a free firmware
upgrade. The materials of the camera are the same unless there are
some gold coins in there I don't know about. Face it. Olympus user
firmware availability is just the adult version of overdomineering
parental authoritarianism. It has nothing to do with improving the
product or the size of the customer base.

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Utter nonsense. You're the one who bought the camera. No one
forced you to. Unless you can show me the announcement where
Olympus promised free, user installable firmware upgrades, you have
no basis for this position.

I bought my last car from a dealer that provides me with a free
loaner any time I bring it in for service. They regularly
advertise this as a selling point of their dealership. (Ted Britt
Ford in Fairfax, Virginia for those interested). If I'd bought a
car from some other dealer would they be cheating me if they didn't
also give me a free service loaner? I don't think so. I may have
bought the wrong car, or bought from the wrong dealer, but that's
on me, not the company that never made any promise of a free loaner.

And I also have no illusion that it's really a free loaner. I
haven't compared rates, but I'm sure they've bundled the cost of
providing the "free" loaners into their repair and service charges.

Likewise, what you perceive to be "FREE" downloads from web-sites
of other manufacturer's are far more likely an additional fee
(say, $50-$100 for the sake of argument) they build into the sales
price of their cameras.

Have you priced a comparable Nikon vs a 5050 lately?

--
eL

 

[Jola]

Every other digicam maker? I must have missed something.

If you exclude Sony then that statement is true.

 

[Jola]

Hello,
I can think of several reasons why Oly doesn't feel comfortable
with firmware upgrades freely given to the public.
First, if most firmware upgrades actually do apply to different
hardware componants, most folks won't need the upgrade.

That's correct.

More important, if a firmware upgrade fails, and the camera refuses
to boot then Oly is responcible to replace the camera, even if they
give a warning. If I am wrong on this point it still leads to a
worse customer relations fiasco (non working camera) than refusing
to give freely firmware upgrades for fully functioning cameras.
So it's cheaper and safer to wait for someone to complain about a
problem and have a trained tech upgrade the firware; if indeed it's
even needed.

Olympus should still be able to upgrade cameras that have locked due to a botched upgrade. It would surely be cheaper for them to flash this 1% (say) of cameras than to flash all of the cameras, as they insist on doing now.

Not to even mention savings to both Olympus and the users due to cameras damaged in the shipping process.

Lastly, on a different note, I have yet to see one single person
give any before and after photos using some kind of controlled
setting to actually see what the difference in firwares actually do.
Until I see something concrete I am sticking with v77 as I don't
find any fault at all with it, and I have no comparative shots to
change my mind.

I don't think that the photos will change - you can still take good images with a v77. Especially of static images.

But something like reduced shutter lag, working camera control, less lock-ups, more sensible defaults, etc, make the photographic experience much more enjoyable.

And you can't take the sort of image that you miss with the shutter lag again. So with the old firmware you may not have anything to compare to.

Michael
PS. It wouldn't surprise me if some companies sometimes give bogus
firmware upgrades so tech junkies feel like they are tweaking and
making better their equipment.

Most firmware upgrades that I have done, like on my Asus motherboard, Garmin GPS, etc the results were VERY noticeable.

 

[Steve Price]

Hi Jola

If you have to make exclusions for the statement to be true, then the statement is false. If you change the statement to "Every digital camera made by evey other maker", it becomes even falser (is that a real word, "falser"?).

Steve Price

Every other digicam maker? I must have missed something.

If you exclude Sony then that statement is true.

 

[Clint D]

You must work for Olympus. No, that's just your opinion that it's "utter nonsense". And, you're comparing apples to oranges......or possibly not even fruit. Digicam's are not automobiles. You statement would be analogous to getting a free camera loaner when OM is upgrading your camera which is not the point here.

I was not aware that OM did not offer firmware upgrades. If I would have known that, I would gotten a G3 or waited on the G5...of which the G3 is same price if not less than the C5050, and G5 is even less at some places.

I have ALL basis for this position (as do 99% of all the other 5050 owners according to all polls) when (ok, not all, but) ALL BUT ONE digicam maker has the firmware updates available to all from their website.

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Utter nonsense. You're the one who bought the camera. No one
forced you to. Unless you can show me the announcement where
Olympus promised free, user installable firmware upgrades, you have
no basis for this position.

I bought my last car from a dealer that provides me with a free
loaner any time I bring it in for service. They regularly
advertise this as a selling point of their dealership. (Ted Britt
Ford in Fairfax, Virginia for those interested). If I'd bought a
car from some other dealer would they be cheating me if they didn't
also give me a free service loaner? I don't think so. I may have
bought the wrong car, or bought from the wrong dealer, but that's
on me, not the company that never made any promise of a free loaner.

And I also have no illusion that it's really a free loaner. I
haven't compared rates, but I'm sure they've bundled the cost of
providing the "free" loaners into their repair and service charges.

Likewise, what you perceive to be "FREE" downloads from web-sites
of other manufacturer's are far more likely an additional fee
(say, $50-$100 for the sake of argument) they build into the sales
price of their cameras.

Have you priced a comparable Nikon vs a 5050 lately?

 

[somynex]

woah now. calm down there clint =)

it's okay. take deep breaths. in.... out.... in.... out....

in... out... ok. now.

first. that wasn't too bad a comparison, and it was, of course, also done half in jest. i'm sure you caught that too.

second. as a v77 user with pretty much no problems so far (knock on wood), i just really haven't seen the need to get involved in some of these discussions so far. people who do have legitimate problems with their camera (and in this limited respect i can only fully sympathize with jola so far, who has real problems not only with oly's support system, but actually with his camera) certainly have their right to voice out their displeasure.

i dont' want to get into some other issues which have their own things behind them (certainly ben hermann's runaround by oly's support was no good either)... BUT, some have really taken this a bit overboard, to the point that it's more a quest to have the "latest firmware" (somewhat akin to the biggest this, longest that, etc syndrome) than anything else. sure it's sorta gift-wrapped in some issue or another but just my gut feeling points me to another decision.

many have taken the time also to learn and to tweak. not everyone post processes, so i bet that oly probably set the initial sharpening defaults at a higher level thinking of that crowd. i suspect they found out that some users do not, and thus may have adjusted it and perhaps... even marked one firmware version as a "reduced sharpening version" .. hey it could happen.

but back to the point. as a v77 user that has not faced any problems, and have taken the time to tweak and adjust settings to get what I feel is the best out of the camera, i have no complaints. and see no reason to come here and proclaim loudly to every one who may or may not have a problem, that i'm so very happy with my camera and i need to gush it out to all of you and yadda yadda yadda.

but at the same time, no oly is not the only one. just read around. Nikon dslr, and Fuji both do not. in fact, fuji's even worse in that, to my knowledge, they don't even acknowledge any of this firmware stuff, and just say what you have is what you get, end of story. i don't see anyone even in the fuji forum making that big a deal out of it. if oly took the same attitude and did not perhaps address soem problems and just took the fuji line would this all die down? would we all be happier? unfortunately i seem to think that we would be...

and as for the many firmware, i highly doubt that in the very few months, oly would be as careless to have had so very many firmware "upgrades" to what is essentially a closed system. has this been the norm or experienced with any other of their other models? not to my knowledge. sure it can happen with the 5050 but i doubt it. to me the different parts correlating with different firmware versions really do seem more and more plausible, as you may be aware that much of your camera will be made in china, and SARS has really hit the whole of east asia, and particularly china hard. this would've affected suppliers and the supply of parts, and probably led to the delay in the 750, and also seems to be a possible reason for the firmware upgrade.

anyway sorry for a long winded post, but just because the firmware is now v83 or whatever, i sure am not gonna get caught up in the upgrade frenzy and demonize olympus, or clamor for the "latest version" when what i have is working perfectly fine as is.

best regards,
somy

I was not aware that OM did not offer firmware upgrades. If I
would have known that, I would gotten a G3 or waited on the G5...of
which the G3 is same price if not less than the C5050, and G5 is
even less at some places.

I have ALL basis for this position (as do 99% of all the other 5050
owners according to all polls) when (ok, not all, but) ALL BUT ONE
digicam maker has the firmware updates available to all from their
website.

..and yes, WE ARE being cheated when every other digicam maker HAS
the firmware updates at their respective websites for FREE.

Utter nonsense. You're the one who bought the camera. No one
forced you to. Unless you can show me the announcement where
Olympus promised free, user installable firmware upgrades, you have
no basis for this position.

I bought my last car from a dealer that provides me with a free
loaner any time I bring it in for service. They regularly
advertise this as a selling point of their dealership. (Ted Britt
Ford in Fairfax, Virginia for those interested). If I'd bought a
car from some other dealer would they be cheating me if they didn't
also give me a free service loaner? I don't think so. I may have
bought the wrong car, or bought from the wrong dealer, but that's
on me, not the company that never made any promise of a free loaner.

And I also have no illusion that it's really a free loaner. I
haven't compared rates, but I'm sure they've bundled the cost of
providing the "free" loaners into their repair and service charges.

Likewise, what you perceive to be "FREE" downloads from web-sites
of other manufacturer's are far more likely an additional fee
(say, $50-$100 for the sake of argument) they build into the sales
price of their cameras.

Have you priced a comparable Nikon vs a 5050 lately?