Alternate Stacking Concepts for Extreme Macro Use

Actually people are viewing my work on HDTVs and are impressed with the level of detail and the sharpness. I am losing some texture data to diffraction, but it's not enough for me to care about since it's more important for a photo to look good edge to edge. No one saves 100% crops to their PC or smartphone screens as wallpaper, and no one is printing them... ;)

I've experimented with focus stacking, but for the subjects that I shoot and the magnifications it's just not worth it. Stacking comes with the same limitations as using a tripod -the subject has to be completely immobile, and I photograph a lot of semi active to hyperactive critters.
You really cant get over the fact that stacked images are taking macro to another level. get over it and move on.

Don
LMAO!

If you think that static frames of dead subjects is going to take off them you'll be waiting a long time. People have been focus stacking macro shots for several decades and the attitude of the general public to razor sharp, poorly lit and poorly composed images is "meh".
That's total garbage I've won dpr challengers and image of the year in photography club comps with my extreme macros.

Don
 
You can continue to deny focus stacking or move forward and embrace focus stacking as a very useful and extremely powerful tool for producing stunning images as many folks here and elsewhere have done.

Best,
Impress me: Focus stack a moving subject...
Don't need too, check out the work of A. Kay mentioned. These are stacks in the field of live subjects in Ecuador, and helping the scientific community!! Check out the slow mo walking subject videos, they are incredible!, Created with an ingenious rotating spherical ball! You can follow these over at PM.

BTW, I'm not into insects just yet. The semiconductor chips at sub-micron levels is quite enough thank you!!

Best,
It's not possible to focus stack a moving subject. Lethargic, non moving sure. But not if they are even remotely active. That's why I don't focus stack, and the texture detail that I lose to diffraction is irrelevant, even when I make poster size prints.
 
LMAO!

If you think that static frames of dead subjects is going to take off them you'll be waiting a long time. People have been focus stacking macro shots for several decades and the attitude of the general public to razor sharp, poorly lit and poorly composed images is "meh".
That's total garbage I've won dpr challengers and image of the year in photography club comps with my extreme macros.

Don
Both of which were most likely judged by someone who also focus stacks and doesn't care about composition or lighting...

I've been published multiple times, and just recently licensed 20 of my images for 2000 cfh (that's a little over 100 USD per photo). I don't advertise my work, and I don't have to because I've got a really diverse following. If you want to get recognized outside of the small niche community that macro really is you're gonna have to create images that are well composed and well lit. Photos that appeal to people who normally don't like insect photos. Everyone, from John Q. Public to photo editors, are looking for images that look good edge to edge. They don't have to be razor sharp at 100% pixels because that's not how anyone, outside of the focus stacking community, is viewing a photo...
 
It's not possible to focus stack a moving subject. Lethargic, non moving sure. But not if they are even remotely active. That's why I don't focus stack, and the texture detail that I lose to diffraction is irrelevant, even when I make poster size prints
Sure it's possible because folks are doing it!!

It' all about the relative movement and timing, some are using 4k or 6k video and moving the camera/lens, even by hand, and using the frames to stack. Following a moving insect and getting a short moment in time where the subject pauses, then collecting those video frames for a focus stacked image.

Researchers have done this video technique for a long time with live subjects in liquids swimming around and at very high magnifications! Selective integration was a stacking technique developed long ago for viewing moving subjects buried in noise, here the technique was for noise reduction (selective image co-adding where Signal to Noise ratio improves by root of number of stacks) rather than focus stacking.

Best,
 
LMAO!

If you think that static frames of dead subjects is going to take off them you'll be waiting a long time. People have been focus stacking macro shots for several decades and the attitude of the general public to razor sharp, poorly lit and poorly composed images is "meh".
That's total garbage I've won dpr challengers and image of the year in photography club comps with my extreme macros.

Don
Both of which were most likely judged by someone who also focus stacks and doesn't care about composition or lighting...

I've been published multiple times, and just recently licensed 20 of my images for 2000 cfh (that's a little over 100 USD per photo). I don't advertise my work, and I don't have to because I've got a really diverse following. If you want to get recognized outside of the small niche community that macro really is you're gonna have to create images that are well composed and well lit. Photos that appeal to people who normally don't like insect photos. Everyone, from John Q. Public to photo editors, are looking for images that look good edge to edge. They don't have to be razor sharp at 100% pixels because that's not how anyone, outside of the focus stacking community, is viewing a photo...
John,

Your comments show a very defensive position with regard to focus stacking, constantly hiding behind your handheld, no crop and preferred composition BS, then attacking anyone that doesn't follow your self-defined "rules" as "inferior". Don has shown some very attractive stacked insect images IMO, and hope will post more in spite of your "rules"!

Maybe your lack of ability, or technique, or equipment, or whatever limits focus stacking for you, but this is a highly effective means for everyone else to produce stunning images of all sorts of subjects when DoF and diffraction are barriers. Many of these images are ascetically pleasing and technically precise and correct, take a look at Levon Biss and his work, which he did for the Oxford Muesum.

https://fstoppers.com/bts/10000-photos-go-making-these-stunning-three-meter-insect-prints-127799

BTW this thread is about "Alternate Stacking Concepts for Extreme Macro Use", for folks in the know involved in focus stacking at the Extreme, let's keep it to that topic or not comment. Constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged, but your biased self-defined anti-stacking "rules" of macro photography are not!!

Best,

--
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
 
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It's not possible to focus stack a moving subject. Lethargic, non moving sure. But not if they are even remotely active. That's why I don't focus stack, and the texture detail that I lose to diffraction is irrelevant, even when I make poster size prints
Sure it's possible because folks are doing it!!

It' all about the relative movement and timing, some are using 4k or 6k video and moving the camera/lens, even by hand, and using the frames to stack. Following a moving insect and getting a short moment in time where the subject pauses, then collecting those video frames for a focus stacked image.
...so not focus stacking a moving subject... *sigh*

Just... wow...
 
John,

Your comments show a very defensive position with regard to focus stacking, constantly hiding behind your handheld, no crop and preferred composition BS, then attacking anyone that doesn't follow your self-defined "rules" as "inferior". Don has shown some very attractive stacked insect images IMO, and hope will post more in spite of your "rules"!

Maybe your lack of ability, or technique, or equipment, or whatever limits focus stacking for you,
Nope, cause anyone can focus stack. It's easy if all you're doing is just stacking without concerning yourself with composition and lighting, and that's why most people gravitate toward it.
but this is a highly effective means for everyone else to produce stunning images of all sorts of subjects when DoF and diffraction are barriers. Many of these images are ascetically pleasing and technically precise and correct, take a look at Levon Biss and his work, which he did for the Oxford Muesum.

https://fstoppers.com/bts/10000-photos-go-making-these-stunning-three-meter-insect-prints-127799
Take a close look at his images, because he's an actual photographer. Those shots are not only well composed but the lighting is spot on -and that's why people like his images. The detail is just icing on an already tasty cake...
BTW this thread is about "Alternate Stacking Concepts for Extreme Macro Use", for folks in the know involved in focus stacking at the Extreme, let's keep it to that topic or not comment. Constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged, but your biased self-defined anti-stacking "rules" of macro photography are not!!

Best,
I don't have an anti stacking rules, and don't care if you or anyone else focus stacks. It's just another tool in a macro shooter's tool box. But it is not, nor will it ever be, "the tool" for shooting macro...
 
John,

Your comments show a very defensive position with regard to focus stacking, constantly hiding behind your handheld, no crop and preferred composition BS, then attacking anyone that doesn't follow your self-defined "rules" as "inferior". Don has shown some very attractive stacked insect images IMO, and hope will post more in spite of your "rules"!

Maybe your lack of ability, or technique, or equipment, or whatever limits focus stacking for you,
Nope, cause anyone can focus stack. It's easy if all you're doing is just stacking without concerning yourself with composition and lighting, and that's why most people gravitate toward it
If "anyone" can focus stack lets see your focus stacks, you certainly qualify as "anyone"!!

BTW focus stacking for some subjects with highly reflective surfaces, lighting can be very difficult, even more so than a single shot.
but this is a highly effective means for everyone else to produce stunning images of all sorts of subjects when DoF and diffraction are barriers. Many of these images are ascetically pleasing and technically precise and correct, take a look at Levon Biss and his work, which he did for the Oxford Muesum.

https://fstoppers.com/bts/10000-photos-go-making-these-stunning-three-meter-insect-prints-127799
Take a close lok at his images, because he's an actual photographer. Those shots are not only well composed but the lighting is spot on -and that's why people like his images.
You bet, he's a real photographer, understands DoF and diffraction limitations and is using focus stacking to create a stunning result :-O
The detail is just icing on an already tasty cake...
Wrong, the detail is what makes this image, why it's viewed at 3 meters, and that's EXACTLY why he is using 10,000 images to render this final image. The stunning detail and sharpness is what makes the image, and I can guarantee he's not shooting F66!!

This is what's called Stack & Stitch where multiple image sessions in X&Y are stacked in Z, then "stitched" together in a 2D panorama. Extremely difficult, requires tremendous skill and knowledge, not to mention a complete understanding of DoF, Diffraction, image perspective, and very detailed lenses characteristics. So in way like focus stacking on steroids :-O

Like you said, I'm sure "anyone" can do this. Care to give it a try ;-)
BTW this thread is about "Alternate Stacking Concepts for Extreme Macro Use", for folks in the know involved in focus stacking at the Extreme, let's keep it to that topic or not comment. Constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged, but your biased self-defined anti-stacking "rules" of macro photography are not!!

Best,
I don't have an anti stacking rules, and don't care if you or anyone else focus stacks. It's just another tool in a macro shooter's tool box. But it is not, nor will it ever be, "the tool" for shooting macro...
Sure you do, you've already stated those "self-proclaimed rules" against focus stacking many times!! Here's your quote from this morning, just in case you have short term memory loss!

"Both of which were most likely judged by someone who also focus stacks and doesn't care about composition or lighting..."

You made this absolutely absurd comment without even viewing the images mentioned!!

No one here that's done focus stacking has ever said that stacking is the only method for macro work, it's another very powerful tool allowing knowledgeable unbiased folks to work around DoF and Diffraction limitations just like Levon and others have, and will continue to do!

So lets move on to the intent of this thread to allow folks to engage and experiment in Focus Stacking for Extreme Macro with a more DIY low cost approach.

Best,
 
John,

Your comments show a very defensive position with regard to focus stacking, constantly hiding behind your handheld, no crop and preferred composition BS, then attacking anyone that doesn't follow your self-defined "rules" as "inferior". Don has shown some very attractive stacked insect images IMO, and hope will post more in spite of your "rules"!

Maybe your lack of ability, or technique, or equipment, or whatever limits focus stacking for you,
Nope, cause anyone can focus stack. It's easy if all you're doing is just stacking without concerning yourself with composition and lighting, and that's why most people gravitate toward it
If "anyone" can focus stack lets see your focus stacks, you certainly qualify as "anyone"!!
Why would I focus stack when I'm getting published? It wouldn't add anything to the images that I'm currently taking now, other than a little more texture detail that no one notices. If I didn't tell you that I take single frames you'd assume that I focus stack, and even though I tell people in the description of my photos that it's a single frame I still get asked "How many frames did you take for that stack?". Images like this one in fact...



dQvI1z9.jpg


Focus stacking is easy because even if you're doing it hand held it's just muscle memory and mechanics -no different than the techniques that I use to take single frames. There's nothing special about any technique, including the ones I use, because anyone can learn them. But the creativity needed to take an image that appeals to people who don't normally like insect photos is tough...
BTW focus stacking for some subjects with highly reflective surfaces, lighting can be very difficult, even more so than a single shot.
Agreed, kinda: Shooting reflective surfaces requires a really well diffused light source (no matter how many frames you take).
but this is a highly effective means for everyone else to produce stunning images of all sorts of subjects when DoF and diffraction are barriers. Many of these images are ascetically pleasing and technically precise and correct, take a look at Levon Biss and his work, which he did for the Oxford Muesum.

https://fstoppers.com/bts/10000-photos-go-making-these-stunning-three-meter-insect-prints-127799
Take a close lok at his images, because he's an actual photographer. Those shots are not only well composed but the lighting is spot on -and that's why people like his images.
You bet, he's a real photographer, understands DoF and diffraction limitations and is using focus stacking to create a stunning result :-O
...and he understands light and how the camera sees it as well as composition. If you watch the "documentary" that was made about his shots he mentions that his experience as a photographer helped him to work out the tricky lighting, The quality of his light is what's giving him the color and contrast that you see in his photos. Per pixel sharpness does nothing for color and contrast...
The detail is just icing on an already tasty cake...
Wrong, the detail is what makes this image,
No, it's the light and the composition. For you, someone who fixates on the per pixel sharpness, his stacking was important. For everyone else outside of those that focus stack it's the light and the composition that draws them in. Photos that size should never be viewed from just a meter away...
BTW this thread is about "Alternate Stacking Concepts for Extreme Macro Use", for folks in the know involved in focus stacking at the Extreme, let's keep it to that topic or not comment. Constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged, but your biased self-defined anti-stacking "rules" of macro photography are not!!

Best,
I don't have an anti stacking rules, and don't care if you or anyone else focus stacks. It's just another tool in a macro shooter's tool box. But it is not, nor will it ever be, "the tool" for shooting macro...
Sure you do, you've already stated those "self-proclaimed rules" against focus stacking many times!! Here's your quote from this morning, just in case you have short term memory loss!

"Both of which were most likely judged by someone who also focus stacks and doesn't care about composition or lighting..."
It's easy to get compliments from people who shoot in your own discipline, because the majority of them are taking images just like yours. It's also easy to get positive feedback within a tight community -all you have to do is compliment other people's images. But the feedback you get from the macro community is like getting a birthday present -the giver expects something in return. Everyone likes to get positive feedback, but if you want to get good as a photographer you can't believe everything that people inside the macro community are telling you about your photos...

--
Also known as Dalantech
My Book: http://nocroppingzone.blogspot.com/2010/01/extreme-macro-art-of-patience.html
My Blog: http://www.extrememacro.com
My gallery: http://www.johnkimbler.com
Macro Tutorials: http://dalantech.deviantart.com/gallery/4122501/Tutorials
Always minimal post processing and no cropping -unless you count the viewfinder... ;)
 
John, you still don't want to read the main point. You are writing in theme that started Mawyatt and which is focused to narrow kind of macro area, about stacking. That is foolish to ignore that and still hold the target out of the theme. Mean your enters to this theme looks like that you want to turn this topic to be totally off topic.

(This theme was not set to discuss: to stack or not to stack. Whats more this theme is about narrow area intended to stacking)
 
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(This theme was not set to discuss: to stack or not to stack. Whats more this theme is about narrow area intended to stacking)
I fully agree. and have no intention of posting to this thread any further. But keep in mind that I never said that stacking is bad, or that you shouldn't do it. I simply said that composition and lighting is a lot more important than absolute image sharpness.

--
Also known as Dalantech
My Book: http://nocroppingzone.blogspot.com/2010/01/extreme-macro-art-of-patience.html
My Blog: http://www.extrememacro.com
My gallery: http://www.johnkimbler.com
Macro Tutorials: http://dalantech.deviantart.com/gallery/4122501/Tutorials
Always minimal post processing and no cropping -unless you count the viewfinder... ;)
 
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Just last note to this too. Ok, you agree with stacking (just from every your entry where you picking up that you don't stack it doesn't look like this) but lighting or composition is another topic and it is irelevant theme in this topic too.

You can handle and discuss lighting or composition in other themes which are about individual photos or about this specific themes. But trying to handle it all in one (in this thread even) it cause only disturbtion from the main point set in this theme on the beginning.
 
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Do any of you guys have an idea about what stacking software is Levon Biss using to achieve the microsculpture project?
 

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