All RAW File Settings Are Same Size?!

[InspectorHud]

I just received my Z8 and my first test was to shoot the same photo with the three RAW settings (Compressed Lossless; HE* and HE). I was expecting to see three different file sizes however they are all the same (within a couple of MB's). I do work for clients who primarily use photos online and I certainly don't need 50MB files all the time. Thanks

 

[AstigmaticOwl]

Just looked at a folder of Z8 images in RAW HE* taken in a local park. They are ranging in size from 30MB to 36MB.

 

[LukeP_Photo]

I just received my Z8 and my first test was to shoot the same photo with the three RAW settings (Compressed Lossless; HE* and HE). I was expecting to see three different file sizes however they are all the same (within a couple of MB's). I do work for clients who primarily use photos online and I certainly don't need 50MB files all the time. Thanks

You should definitely be seeing a size difference between the different raw settings. To confirm that you did engage the different settings, you should see the estimated shots available on the top lcd change as you change from lossless compressed to HE* and HE. HE* usually gets me files around 30MB and the available shots on my card increases proportionally over lossless compressed. There is no option for small, medium or large raw files. That’s only available for in camera JPGs.

 

[areallygrumpyoldsod]

I just received my Z8 and my first test was to shoot the same photo with the three RAW settings (Compressed Lossless; HE* and HE). I was expecting to see three different file sizes however they are all the same (within a couple of MB's). I do work for clients who primarily use photos online and I certainly don't need 50MB files all the time. Thanks

What you mean is they are all the same resolution. The file size varies by type.

And yes you are correct, which is why many of us have been asking Nikon for choices. My preference would be a range of sizes generated by interpolation not just pixel binning. Say 45mp, 35mp, 24mp and 11mp. Similar to the options for jpg but with an intermediate size as well.

we had a range of full frame resolutions for Raw files before. It is difficult to understand why not also in the Z8/Z9

 

[InspectorHud]

Thanks to all for commenting.

I did another test this morning and I did not expect that this is how this file format worked.

Checking the three files on the card (going from Lossless Compressed to HE):

55.2; 34.5; 22.6 MB's

After importing the same files into Lightroom I checked in Finder and they are:

49.1; 51.2; 50.3 MB's

So, these files are decompressed up import it seems. I know that drives are cheap but is there a way keep them stored at the lower, compressed sizes?

 

[sirhawkeye64]

I just received my Z8 and my first test was to shoot the same photo with the three RAW settings (Compressed Lossless; HE* and HE). I was expecting to see three different file sizes however they are all the same (within a couple of MB's). I do work for clients who primarily use photos online and I certainly don't need 50MB files all the time. Thanks

IDK something funky going on then if you're getting all the same sizes, or it's not registering you switching file formats. From what I Remember (don't have my Z8 at the moment as it's being repaired) my Lossless RAWs came in between 55-60MB, HE and HE* I think where in the 35 MB range or so, so there should be some difference. Matt Granger has a video discussing the various formats and their average file sizes (although it was made for the Z9, but maybe he did one for the Z8 as well can't remember) but in his tests, there was a difference between HE and HE*, and lossless compressed would be larger than those two (although probably not by a huge amount, but they should be a bit larger since there is no data loss due to compression).

 

[InspectorHud]

I just made a discovery. I imported three files (Lossless, HE* and HE) into Lightroom and the two HE files were reduced sizes. When I converted to DNG they all went to full size. I generally import as DNG so I was getting all full (approx. 50MB) files for each setting. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but I suppose some smart person may know what DNG is doing. At least I know now how to get them on my computer in the smaller sizes but I still have some questions but I will first do more testing.

 

[sirhawkeye64]

I just made a discovery. I imported three files (Lossless, HE* and HE) into Lightroom and the two HE files were reduced sizes. When I converted to DNG they all went to full size. I generally import as DNG so I was getting all full (approx. 50MB) files for each setting. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but I suppose some smart person may know what DNG is doing. At least I know now how to get them on my computer in the smaller sizes but I still have some questions but I will first do more testing.

I think part of this is the DNG also contains additional data, in addition to the data from the image file, as I've run into this with my Z6/Z7 lossless compressed files too, unless you have it create a lossy DNG file (which I think the default is lossless). But I think it has to do with the DNG converter decompressing the file, and then converting it and re-storing it in the DNG file format, which appears to result in a larger file in some/many cases.

Obviously the HE file formats are compressed RAW formats, its just one (can't remember which one) is compressed more than the other, with a bit more image quality loss compared to the other, in favor of space savings.

--
NOTE: If I don't reply to a direct comment in the forums, it's likely I unsubscribed from the thread/article..

 

[NAG3LT]

When I converted to DNG they all went to full size. I generally import as DNG so I was getting all full (approx. 50MB) files for each setting. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but I suppose some smart person may know what DNG is doing.

So, the process of import to DNG works like this:

Orginal compressed file from camera -> decompression -> image data & metadata -> putting that into DNG format with DNG compression

So as long as the resolution and bit depth of you images are the same (and content is similar), it doesn't matter how strong the original compression was, the final DNG file sizes will be in the same ballpark.

 

[DrGoon]

Once you convert to Adobe DNG you are no longer comparing the RAW formats the camera produces. Now you have three files in the same format that used different conversions to create them. Although I use Lightroom, I keep NEF format and it then puts the edits into the sidecar files. You might consider a similar process if you wish to benefit from the lossy compressed formats that the camera offers.

 

[Models By Day]

Checking the three files on the card (going from Lossless Compressed to HE):

55.2; 34.5; 22.6 MB's

So on the Memory card they shows as different file sizes, is this correct?

If correct then there is something happening to the files on the import or lightroom.

 

[ghostfox_1]

I just made a discovery. I imported three files (Lossless, HE* and HE) into Lightroom and the two HE files were reduced sizes. When I converted to DNG they all went to full size. I generally import as DNG so I was getting all full (approx. 50MB) files for each setting. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but I suppose some smart person may know what DNG is doing. At least I know now how to get them on my computer in the smaller sizes but I still have some questions but I will first do more testing.

In order to get to dng, they have to be converted, so you lose the compression.

That's all there is to it.

 

[InspectorHud]

Thanks everyone. I got more info here than anywhere else I searched. I like the idea of getting smaller file sizes for some of the work I do so I will just import without converting to NEF. Seems like an easy enough solution. I am inching my way closer by the minute.

 

[Mads Bjerke]

Why do you convert the NEF to DNG?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to throw away the Nikon raw data and put it all in a third party vendors file format.

Curious to hear opinions on this.

 

[InspectorHud]

I like consolidating the side-car into one DNG file which is said to be easier for Adobe to read and perhaps faster to read. Also, there is no loss in quality so I adopted it a part of the import procedure.

 

[Horshack]

Why do you convert the NEF to DNG?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to throw away the Nikon raw data and put it all in a third party vendors file format.

Curious to hear opinions on this.

DNG is an openly-documented standard supported by a variety of tools. NEF is not. In this scenario, I see the DNG as a first-party format and NEF as the third-party vendor.

 

[Mads Bjerke]

Why do you convert the NEF to DNG?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to throw away the Nikon raw data and put it all in a third party vendors file format.

Curious to hear opinions on this.

DNG is an openly-documented standard supported by a variety of tools. NEF is not. In this scenario, I see the DNG as a first-party format and NEF as the third-party vendor.

I guess my experiences with software vendors over the decades have left me a bit gun-shy.
There is no such thing as lifetime support and I would hate to have my raw files lost if one day DNG becomes obsolete. Just me perhaps.

 

[Horshack]

Why do you convert the NEF to DNG?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to throw away the Nikon raw data and put it all in a third party vendors file format.

Curious to hear opinions on this.

DNG is an openly-documented standard supported by a variety of tools. NEF is not. In this scenario, I see the DNG as a first-party format and NEF as the third-party vendor.

I guess my experiences with software vendors over the decades have left me a bit gun-shy.
There is no such thing as lifetime support and I would hate to have my raw files lost if one day DNG becomes obsolete. Just me perhaps.

In the grand scheme of things, I think it's more likely for Nikon to go away than Adobe. DNG is supported by enough utilities and cameras that it's likely to be around a lot longer than we will.

 

[wilberforce_1]

we had a range of full frame resolutions for Raw files before. It is difficult to understand why not also in the Z8/Z9

Because the HE compression of RAW files basically obsoletes mRAW and sRAW. I expect you may argue at length why it doesn't, but it does.

 

[sirhawkeye64]

Why do you convert the NEF to DNG?
Doesn't seem like a good idea to throw away the Nikon raw data and put it all in a third party vendors file format.

Curious to hear opinions on this.

One advantage would be if you have an older computer or one that perhaps isn't up-to-date with the latest hardware, working with DNG files can be faster because they are generally smaller, even if they aren't physically on disk. Second, edits can be saved into DNG files (at least for Adobe products), so if you have to share your files with someone else, it's usually as easy as just giving them a DNG to work with with the edits embedded, whereas if you used RAW, you'd have to export your edits to an XMP and supply that (or a catalog) to someone else.

So most people probably do it if they are working with someone else because it's easier to move files around between parties.

But the primary reason I think is for disk space and speed (with the Z8 and Z9 files, the largest RAW file I think is 60MB being Lossless compressed on the Z8). Now if you were using an uncompressed format (say the Z7's uncompressed RAW, then you're lookg at 90MB RAWs and over time, this may eat up a lot of disk space -- although disk space is cheap). But some people may need all of their images with them on an external drive and so DNG is one solution (files are smaller, they can work faster with some RAW processors and they are easier to backup and share).

And to the part about LR, one thing I think people forget is you can backup your catalog and such, but it's also good to have LR export your edits to XMP files when you're done editing, just in case your catalog gets corrupted or you don't have a good backup. That's just a price I have been doing (the files usually are small, largest I've seen is 1MB but it's basically a backup of my edits).