ADobe DNG Workflow Puzzle

[Talking to myself again.]
Digging through the DNG specs, I found "lossless" JPEG also referred to
as "lossless Huffman JPG". This is the original ISO standard for lossless
JPG which is what they apparently will be using.
There are 3 different losseless JPEG methods that I am aware of:
1) Lossless JPEG (aka L-JPEG). This was included with the original
ISO JPEG standard. Its good for cartoons, sucks for traditional
photos. There does not appear to be widespread support
for this method.
 
"Thomas Knoll - 1:42pm Sep 27, 04 PST (#3 of 5)

The lossless version of the original JPEG standard. The exact same compression algorithm that Canon is using for their 1D, 1Ds and 20D models. "

From other posts it sounds like this guy was part of the dev team on DNG.
 
From other posts it sounds like this guy was part of the dev team
on DNG.
Ya, kind of. Thomas Knoll and his brother WROTE Photoshop way back in the very late 80's (before it was called Photoshop). Thomas designed and built Adobe Camera RAW. Look at your Photoshop "about screen." Saying he's part of the dev team is a bit of an understatement
--
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
 
gheil wrote:>
... but for now i will keep my originals.
Which is EXACTLY what Adobe recommends you do. This new format is in it's infancy and as I understand, is being more or less thrown out by Adobe for developers and manufactures to do as they please. It is, to me, a major step when THE number one guy on the block in the imaging world ... i.e., Adobe ... offers to the world a possible solution to a real problem ... puts their money where their mouth is by supporting it right out of the chute ... makes it open source ... and gives it away. What really amazes me is that with all that, they are critisized for their efforts. It never ceases to amaze me how things of this nature can get so much negative reaction when it is FREE and an honest attempt to solve a real problem. Of course Adobe benefits from it because hopefully they won't have to keep updating ACR to support more and more RAW formats. I hardly begrudge them that ... as smaller, less well financed, less powerful software developers will also benefit. However, the real benefactors are photographers ... users ... US! On the other hand ... one always has the option of just ignoring it ... don't download it ... don't update ACW ... don't keep a copy of their RAWs in this new format for possible safekeeping ... and ... go on their way. Cheers ... :-)

the wiz
 
This new format is
in it's infancy and as I understand, is being more or less thrown
out by Adobe for developers and manufactures to do as they please.
Yep. This is just the first rev of a spec and supporting products. My
first impression based on what I have heard from others is that while
the products may have some issues with highly proprietary
(undocumented) features in some vendor's RAW formats, the spec
itself is pretty solid.
It is, to me, a major step when THE number one guy on the block in
the imaging world ... i.e., Adobe ... offers to the world a
possible solution to a real problem ... puts their money where
their mouth is by supporting it right out of the chute ... makes it
open source ... and gives it away.
Be careful when you say "open source". It can mean different things
to different people.
The spec has been made freely available. The spec was not developed
in an Open manner (e.g. IETF, ISO, etc). I hope that further spec
refinement will be a more Open process with participation by
other software vendors, hardware vendors, and the user community.
It does not necessarily have to be like ISO, but even the process
Sun uses for extending Java (the Java Community Process) is better
than nothing. Again, this may be overkill, but you can never have
toio much overkill :-). So the spec could be considered open but
its definition was not.

And as far as the "source" side of it goes, I would love to see any
DNG SDK made available under GPL (or similar) licensing. It would
need a plugin framework for vendors to slot in code when they
have a new RAW format come out, or, more importantly, other
developers could extend the vendor's RAW integration or replace
entirely with something that works better or faster. This would
result in a DNG SDK that is "free" because anyone can get access
to the source code without cost and "free" because GPL prevents
any particular company from placing an additional restrictive license
on the use and distribution of the source or products produced
from the source.

[I, for one, would like to see optional support for cameras digitally
signing RAW data such that a DNG utility could later verify that some
particular image was captured by some particular camera with date,
time, and GPS info. There are a lot of different ways that this could
be useful for both legal and historical purposes. Also, my memory sucks.]
What really amazes me is that
with all that, they are critisized for their efforts. It never
ceases to amaze me how things of this nature can get so much
negative reaction when it is FREE and an honest attempt to solve a
real problem. Of course Adobe benefits from it because hopefully
they won't have to keep updating ACR to support more and more RAW
formats. I hardly begrudge them that ... as smaller, less well
financed, less powerful software developers will also benefit.
The only ones that I can see that don't benefit are camera vendors
who have a good revenue stream from the apps they sell to fiddle
with their RAW file formats.
However, the real benefactors are photographers ... users ... US!
Yep. Especially if the spec (and spec process) and a DNG SDK are
made truly open.
On the other hand ... one always has the option of just ignoring it
... don't download it ... don't update ACW ... don't keep a copy of
their RAWs in this new format for possible safekeeping ... and ...
go on their way. Cheers ... :-)
I would keep RAW files around (on DVD, natch) until
a) I could convert RAW file to DNG and back to a RAW file that is
"identical" to the original.
b) I have a DNG tool that will store the compressed RAW file in a
DNG field so that I could later extract a bit copy of the original
RAW file.

ciao,
-xbytor
--

 
I am now converting all my pictures to DNG before emailing them to Corbis and Getty images.

Ian
I was pleased to see the announcement of Adobe's DNG, as I have
long believed that a neutral non-camera specific RAW file format is
the most logical way forward for handling RAW files. I hope this
format gets wide support from both camera and imaging software
vendors.

However, I've just downloaded the new Adobe DNG format convertor
and the latest version of Camera RAW which supports it, and had a
brief play. As a result I'm now a bit puzzled about what Adobe
intends by way of a workflow using this new format.

I expected the RAW convertor to offer to open the file into DNG
format and do the RAW processing from there, maybe offering to save
it in DNG format before leaving the ACR window. However, unless I
am missing something, it seems that we have to use the standalone
converter program to get the files into DNG format first. This
seems to give no real incentive to use the DNG format.

I don't know if ACR has previously used separate convertor routines
for each RAW type, or more likely a fairly generic conversion
engine with different configurations for each RAW type. However, I
would have thought that the logical thing to be doing now would be
to replace all previous conversion routines with a standard DNG
based ACR convertor engine used in conjunction with a pre-processor
which converts each file to DNG according to the appropriate
parameters dictated by its native RAW type.

If this is what is actually happening, then the data will be in DNG
format prior to RAW conversion, so could automatically be saved in
this neutral format on leaving the ACR window - maybe optionally
according to a user set preference.

I would much prefer this as it would make the workflow a lot
simpler and quicker, assuming that I want to use DNG, which I do.

Anyone got any more information on this?

Fred
 

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