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Seems an excellent idea.Adobe introduces a 'standard' for RAW files, DNG. For now they
offer a converter to go from RAW to DNG, but they hope that
manufacturers are going to write directly to DNG format, so you
wouldn't need support anymore for all those different RAW formats.
It supports lossless compression too..
See: http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html
--
Menno
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvanb/albums
It is a great idea, assuming thatSeems an excellent idea.Adobe introduces a 'standard' for RAW files, DNG. For now they
offer a converter to go from RAW to DNG, but they hope that
manufacturers are going to write directly to DNG format, so you
wouldn't need support anymore for all those different RAW formats.
It supports lossless compression too..
See: http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html
--
Menno
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvanb/albums
I wonder if the file sizes are any smaller than Pentax RAW.
I will download it and see what happens after conversion. If so,
let's hope the manufacturers take it up.
I've downloaded the converter and converted a Pentax RAW file to DNG.It is a great idea, assuming thatSeems an excellent idea.Adobe introduces a 'standard' for RAW files, DNG. For now they
offer a converter to go from RAW to DNG, but they hope that
manufacturers are going to write directly to DNG format, so you
wouldn't need support anymore for all those different RAW formats.
It supports lossless compression too..
See: http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html
--
Menno
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvanb/albums
I wonder if the file sizes are any smaller than Pentax RAW.
I will download it and see what happens after conversion. If so,
let's hope the manufacturers take it up.
(a) Adobe make the standard available to anyone who wants to use it
at little or no cost
(b) Camera makers adopt it.
Worst case is that only photoshop reads the files, and no camera
writes them.
Best case is everyone within six months it's as widely supported as
JPEG, (OK as PNG then) and Pentax ship a firmware upgrade to
support it.
We know they don't compress files, and a "Pentax-own-brand"
compressed-raw would mean they had to write new software which I
don't see happening. A vendor-independant compressed-raw has a
better chance (a menu option could let you choose DNG or PEF)
Pentax's software is the worst thing about the whole *ist-D package
(and by a big margin). Talk to Nikon and Canon owners and they
think their software sucks too. Software companies should not make
cameras and optics companies shouldn't write software.
Yes I also hope this is possible with a firmware upgrade, that would be great (Pentax has a good reason to use this standard, AFAIK it has the largest RAW-size of all the comparable DSLR's).PEF file size = 13.5MB DNG file size = 6.14MB
Come on Pentax - adopt it and give us a firmware upgrade, double
the capacity on my 1GB cards. YES PLEASE!
Everything is intact, apart from the reportage on lens make and model, which is only available in the Pentax Browser anyway (and usually only if a Pentax lens is used) and as that cannot read DNG format I don't know if this information is kept..Richard,
Sounds great. Can you tell us if the DNG converter keeps all of
the metadata intact?
Cheers!
--I just converted 444MB of PEF files into 180MB of DNGs!!!
It took few seconds on a centrino laptop...
Metadata seems to be intact (from Photoshop file properties).
Adobe just cut my storage requirements by more than 2X for free!
Thanks Adobe!
I hope Pentax users can enjoy DNG with a firmware update altough I
think it could be difficult (Pentax *ist D firmware memory
limitation / processing power limitation). Let's hope for the
best...
Vincenzo
Just did a bulk conversion. 1760 raw files converted in 59 minutes in 3GHz P4 HT. Reduced from 22.4GB down to 9.02GB. Average of 6.1MB each. (Biggest was 7.4MB, Smallest only 3.3 MB!)Yes I also hope this is possible with a firmware upgrade, thatPEF file size = 13.5MB DNG file size = 6.14MB
Come on Pentax - adopt it and give us a firmware upgrade, double
the capacity on my 1GB cards. YES PLEASE!
would be great (Pentax has a good reason to use this standard,
AFAIK it has the largest RAW-size of all the comparable DSLR's).
Menno
--I just converted 444MB of PEF files into 180MB of DNGs!!!
It took few seconds on a centrino laptop...
Metadata seems to be intact (from Photoshop file properties).
Adobe just cut my storage requirements by more than 2X for free!
Thanks Adobe!
I hope Pentax users can enjoy DNG with a firmware update altough I
think it could be difficult (Pentax *ist D firmware memory
limitation / processing power limitation). Let's hope for the
best...
Vincenzo
http://www.torphoto.net
Unforunately, the creation and modification dates change to the time of the conversion, rather than the date the image was shot. (At least in the Mac version.)Richard,
Sounds great. Can you tell us if the DNG converter keeps all of
the metadata intact?
Cheers!
I have to modyfy that. The date of cretaion and modification file itself is changed, but the original date is preserved intact in the "Camera Data (EXIF)".Unforunately, the creation and modification dates change to theRichard,
Sounds great. Can you tell us if the DNG converter keeps all of
the metadata intact?
Cheers!
time of the conversion, rather than the date the image was shot.
(At least in the Mac version.)
It is certainly possible because one file writing format is as good as another.Yes I also hope this is possible with a firmware upgrade, thatPEF file size = 13.5MB DNG file size = 6.14MB
Come on Pentax - adopt it and give us a firmware upgrade, double
the capacity on my 1GB cards. YES PLEASE!
would be great (Pentax has a good reason to use this standard,
AFAIK it has the largest RAW-size of all the comparable DSLR's).
That is not the pattern that the *ist-D followed, 1.10 firmware made a big step to support m-series lenses, and updated exif support, and 1.11 added support for remote assistant. These where feature adds, not fixes.The guys/gals at Pentax who write firmware are presumably no longer
working on the istD - probably not even the istDS - they'll most
likelky already be working on whatever is the pipeline after that -
unless there is a need to patch the D or DS due to a true defect.
This is a 'feature' issue not a 'defect' issue.
It's the same in the Windows version.I have to modyfy that. The date of cretaion and modification fileUnforunately, the creation and modification dates change to theRichard,
Sounds great. Can you tell us if the DNG converter keeps all of
the metadata intact?
Cheers!
time of the conversion, rather than the date the image was shot.
(At least in the Mac version.)
itself is changed, but the original date is preserved intact in the
"Camera Data (EXIF)".
Nevertheless, it would have been nice to preserve the creation date
of the FILE itself, as that would have made it extremely easy to
sort images by date, meaning the actual date the image was shot.
If Pentax have a shortage of space in the firmware, drop the TIFF option and replace with DNG, you can always make a TIFF from either a RAW or DNG file later. It is highly probable that the demand for TIFF files by agencies will change to DNG anyway, judging by the comments from Getty etc..It is certainly possible because one file writing format is as goodYes I also hope this is possible with a firmware upgrade, thatPEF file size = 13.5MB DNG file size = 6.14MB
Come on Pentax - adopt it and give us a firmware upgrade, double
the capacity on my 1GB cards. YES PLEASE!
would be great (Pentax has a good reason to use this standard,
AFAIK it has the largest RAW-size of all the comparable DSLR's).
as another.
There is a world of difference between the previous version of this
request
"Dear Pentax, please make PEF losslessly compressed and re-write
the browser and photo lab software to go with it" .
and the new one
"Dear Pentax, please give a us a choice of PEF or DNG to support
software from 3rd parties."
The following would be valid reasons NOT to.
(a) Adobe screw up (1); they charge huge licensing fees for using
it, and no other software writers adopt it.
(b) Adobe screw up (2); they don't provide developer support to the
camera makers to help include a DNG encoder so the development
effort makes it too costly.
(c) Pentax limitation. There's no space in the firmware.
Now from the Adobe press release
Adobe have avoided screw-up (1) as I called it
"The Digital Negative Specification is being posted to the Adobe
Web site free of any legal restrictions or royalties, enabling
integration of the .DNG file format into digital cameras, printers,
and software products."
As for screw-up (2), well they've partially avoided that too
"The Digital Negative Specification is based on the TIFF EP format,
an accepted standard, and already the basis of many proprietary raw
formats"
I think that is what is used in PEF. I've certainly read that each
colour plane is actually a TIFF ... this implies relatively little
work to do for Pentax
So the ball would be in Pentax's court. We know on the on hand
(Optio 550) they don't introduce "fixes" when the camera is working
as designed, and on the other they have improved support for
M-series lenses, introduced remote assistant, and updated the Exif
support in the *ist-D.
Looks great!! And if a firmware upgrade would be able to allow the
istD and istDS to write these files that would be even better.
...but putting the RAW data through a compression algorithm may
also slow down the process of writing the files. Existing JPEG
compression is probably hardwired into the processor, but this
compression would have to be entirely done through the firmware
(=software). Wouldn't that slow down things? And as these
algorithms tend to be relatively complex, is there enough space in
the firmware for this?
Would seem a shame though if it not possible... Why can't Adobe
work with camera manufacturers, then the istDS could have had this
DNG raw format... BTW, anyone get more info on the raw files in the
istDS? Anyone passing at Photokina e.g.?
Wim, it is unlikely to take much processing power to do this
compression, as JPEG loss-less compression is specified in the DNG
standard, and this likely uses Huffman compression as the other
option of arithmetic compression would be still subject to license
fees, would indeed be slower, and would likely only reduce file
sizes by another 10%. Huffman compression is the last stage used
in JPEG encoding, so most of what is required should be already be
built into the harware engine, since that engine likely already has
enough bit depth in calculations to deal with the 12 bit per
photosite data from the CCD (likely the engine works in 16 bits).
In short, Huffman compression, which is likely used, takes very
little time, and is already partially built into the cameras that
support JPEG images.
I would think that most of the time required to convert directly
from PEF to DNG format is just reading and writing the fairly large
file sizes.
Regards, GordonBGood
