Adding a second body

[stratman1976]

Regarding image sharpness, same consideration applies. At 100%, motion blur or missed focus is more evident. This could be a technique issue or some lens fine tuning might be needed.

Well, this morning i've been looking much closer to what i've done. Most images i have problems with had one of these issues:

• too shallow DOF together with missed focus
• subject motion blur
• too low shutter speed, say 1/50 at longer focal lengths

So, i think it's mostly user error. But what i find positive is that i am being confronted with my own shortcomings. Makes me want to improve with what i've obviously gotten away with so far

If you are brave, post some sample images. Others with the same body could tell you if your results are typical or if something unusual is involved.

I will, when i've sorted them! Thanks!

 

[primeshooter]

So, i rented the D810 this weekend. Did some outdoor zoo shooting, indoor portraits with studio lights and casual indoor shots. Here are my findigns

The positives (for me)

• Good build, a breeze to switch from the D700
• Nice, lighter weight. Really like the feel.
• Very good AF-tracking
• Very clean at base ISO
• Nice, sort of quiet, shutter
• Less strain on my iMac than expected

The negatives (for me)

• The grip is just a little bit shallow for me, it hurts my middle- and ring finger, when using the D810 for more than, say, an hour.
• Gets grainy very fast at higher ISO's (from 400 and up)
• At higher ISO's (>ISO800) it seems all the detail is gone and replaced with grain, which gives the picture a kind of a " it's not tack sharp"-look. Don't like it
• I get way more "blurred" pics. But i can't find a consistent factor. I get tack sharp ones too, at 1/60 f/2.8 for example. But also unsharp pics at 1/320 f/5.6, which makes no sense to me. Tried my primes too, at various apertures. Could it just be technique, or shutter shock? Any ideas? I do feel quite a tremble when pressing the shutter..
• Autofocus in low-light isn't much better compared to my D700

Of course, one weekend is too short to really get to know a new camera. It took me a couple of weeks when i switched from my Alpha700 to my D700.

Any other experiences?

I have both cameras. The ISO performance of the D810 is better. If you think it's grainy from 400 up on the D810 it's because you are looking at a higher magnification. Downsize the D810 to 12MP to compare noise, it comes up here constantly people don't get that you cannot compare ISO performance at difference magnifications. Remember light affects how your high ISO files appear when you compare. You can be shooting at 6400 with some directional light and it will appear sharper than 3200 in flat light. Also, the D810 doesn't have high ISO sensor bleeding, where point light sources can bleed across the dark frame in a line (doesn't always happen but it can with the D700). The reason you are getting more blurred pictures is due to higher magnification; you can't purely use a 1/focal length rule now. If you want to do that, downsize to 12MP and you will be just as happy as you where with the D700. I don't understand your grip problem, the D800 grip is poorer, but the D810 feels about the same to me as the D700, so not sure what is going on there.

Personally if I where you, and you didn't need a landscape camera (which is the only reason I have the D810), I'd buy another D700. There is no need for more resolution etc for weddings and it will give you the same colour between bodies without hassle, and it will choose similar WB etc. In RAW, you can do a lot with D700 files. It also has a strong CFA which many note actually produces better colour differentiation and stronger colours.

I have shot many weddings, and I can tell you ergonomics make a huge deal in this game. It is so important for a pro to know his gear and be able to have muscle memory for all the buttons; and to basically understand the camera inside out. Switching between the D810 and D700 all day still bugs me, the + and - zoom is switched around so I sometimes press the wrong button; the ISO button is different between the D700 and D810 too, I don't know why Nikon do this. It is so annoying in a fast paced wedding environment and it can trip me up. Handing is one of the most important aspects to a pro; yet I see very little reviews that even discuss these types of things. I may pick up another D700 soon for this very point.

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[primeshooter]

The D810 focuses in low light about like the D700, if I'm recalling correctly. Pretty dim light - usually the ISO goes too high before I run out of autofocus. I rarely have an issue, and I always have the focus aid light turned off.

Agreed

That said, an advantage here is definitely worth considering, as the place you have AF issues in dim light with the D810 is with low-contrast subjects, especially dark ones. That kind of advantage could be significant in a wedding, though I really don't recall any big complaints about D810 autofocus.

I think you right here with respect to low contrast subjects. However, what I have found is if the light really is that terrible to make the D810 AF that inaccurate; it has to be so low that any picture I get lacks decent exposure, no directional light, and is basically a crap dark and dismal photo. I am all for shooting in low light and all but still...So I see it as a non issue...

I'm guessing the D750 and D810 replacements will pick up the even-better D5/D500 focus modules.

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[fkazmi]

My 2 cents:

If you belive in getting good color in OOC JPEGs using flash indoors (wedding scenario), ignore D750 or any late models. I don't know about D700 but expect it to be as good as others of its generation in this department.

But if you are a RAW shooter like most of people here, D750 is a great camera.

Regards,

(D750 owner, D40 user :-( )

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

I have shot many weddings, and I can tell you ergonomics make a huge deal in this game. It is so important for a pro to know his gear and be able to have muscle memory for all the buttons; and to basically understand the camera inside out. Switching between the D810 and D700 all day still bugs me, the + and - zoom is switched around so I sometimes press the wrong button;

I've been shooting the D8xx since 2013 and those button changes STILL trip me up! At least that's not something really critical. All the important buttons and dials are still the same.

 

[primeshooter]

I have shot many weddings, and I can tell you ergonomics make a huge deal in this game. It is so important for a pro to know his gear and be able to have muscle memory for all the buttons; and to basically understand the camera inside out. Switching between the D810 and D700 all day still bugs me, the + and - zoom is switched around so I sometimes press the wrong button;

I've been shooting the D8xx since 2013 and those button changes STILL trip me up! At least that's not something really critical. All the important buttons and dials are still the same.

 

[stratman1976]

I have both cameras. The ISO performance of the D810 is better. If you think it's grainy from 400 up on the D810 it's because you are looking at a higher magnification. Downsize the D810 to 12MP to compare noise, it comes up here constantly people don't get that you cannot compare ISO performance at difference magnifications. Remember light affects how your high ISO files appear when you compare. You can be shooting at 6400 with some directional light and it will appear sharper than 3200 in flat light.

True, i was shooting mostly in bleek and cloudy weather. Really horrible light.

Also, the D810 doesn't have high ISO sensor bleeding, where point light sources can bleed across the dark frame in a line (doesn't always happen but it can with the D700). The reason you are getting more blurred pictures is due to higher magnification; you can't purely use a 1/focal length rule now. If you want to do that, downsize to 12MP and you will be just as happy as you where with the D700.

That figures.

I don't understand your grip problem, the D800 grip is poorer, but the D810 feels about the same to me as the D700, so not sure what is going on there.

It's a littleless wide and deep.

Personally if I where you, and you didn't need a landscape camera (which is the only reason I have the D810), I'd buy another D700. There is no need for more resolution etc for weddings and it will give you the same colour between bodies without hassle, and it will choose similar WB etc. In RAW, you can do a lot with D700 files. It also has a strong CFA which many note actually produces better colour differentiation and stronger colours.

Yes, the resolution is a downside for me. Only reason i considered the D810 is the control/layout and build. I've almost never came across a situation where 12MP wasn't enough (apart from heavy cropping).

I have shot many weddings, and I can tell you ergonomics make a huge deal in this game. It is so important for a pro to know his gear and be able to have muscle memory for all the buttons; and to basically understand the camera inside out. Switching between the D810 and D700 all day still bugs me, the + and - zoom is switched around so I sometimes press the wrong button; the ISO button is different between the D700 and D810 too, I don't know why Nikon do this. It is so annoying in a fast paced wedding environment and it can trip me up.

I can imagine that would bug me as well.

Handing is one of the most important aspects to a pro; yet I see very little reviews that even discuss these types of things. I may pick up another D700 soon for this very point.

I'll try out the D750 at a later point (it wasn't available). Buying another D700 is definitely on the table. Thanks for your comments!

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[stratman1976]

My 2 cents:

If you belive in getting good color in OOC JPEGs using flash indoors (wedding scenario), ignore D750 or any late models. I don't know about D700 but expect it to be as good as others of its generation in this department.

But if you are a RAW shooter like most of people here, D750 is a great camera.

Regards,

(D750 owner, D40 user :-( )

Thanks! I'm a RAW shooter, D700 has been giving me excellent results so far. But i will try the D750.

 

[stratman1976]

Here are some examples from last weekend. It was a cold day with a very cloudy sky. Please judge the image quality here, most shots were taken as test shots.



Not sharp. I don't think it is misfocused, shutter shock or movement from my part?


105mm macro, 1/160s, f/2.8



The one on the left has sharp tail and paws, which is in the same plane as its head. If i recall correctly, there was no subject movement.


105mm macro 1/250s, f/3.2



Very shallow DOF, but sharp @1/125s


105mm macro, 1/125s, f/2.8



Also sharp, now @ 1/250s


105mm macro, 1/250s, f/2.8



Just wanted to test my handheld steadiness. Not bad IMHO!


105mm macro, 1/160s, f/3.2

Am i being paranoid? Any theories or comments are welcome!

 

[Rexgig0]

Two words: "Learning curve."

This is a high-resolution camera. These are nice images, already, and I believe you will improve quickly. (My hi-res camera is a 5Ds R, so I will let D800/D810 shooters offer specifics.)

One general recommendation: Faster shutter speeds, whenever possible, perhaps using AF-C, and pay attention to minimizing your involuntary fore-and-aft movement. Hi-res cameras demand excellent hand-held technique.

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[stratman1976]

Two words: "Learning curve."

Very true, it feels that way too.

This is a high-resolution camera. These are nice images, already, and I believe you will improve quickly. (My hi-res camera is a 5Ds R, so I will let D800/D810 shooters offer specifics.)

Thanks!

One general recommendation: Faster shutter speeds, whenever possible, perhaps using AF-C, and pay attention to minimizing your involuntary fore-and-aft movement. Hi-res cameras demand excellent hand-held technique.

I use AF-C with bb-focus, works very well for me. Didn't have the chance to test it in good weather. And i think it's always a good thing to get confronted with one's shortcomings, it's the only way to improve. The images from the portrait shoot i did came out very sharp.

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[primeshooter]

Here are some examples from last weekend. It was a cold day with a very cloudy sky. Please judge the image quality here, most shots were taken as test shots.

Not sharp. I don't think it is misfocused, shutter shock or movement from my part?


105mm macro, 1/160s, f/2.8

The one on the left has sharp tail and paws, which is in the same plane as its head. If i recall correctly, there was no subject movement.


105mm macro 1/250s, f/3.2

Very shallow DOF, but sharp @1/125s


105mm macro, 1/125s, f/2.8

Also sharp, now @ 1/250s


105mm macro, 1/250s, f/2.8

Just wanted to test my handheld steadiness. Not bad IMHO!


105mm macro, 1/160s, f/3.2

Am i being paranoid? Any theories or comments are welcome!

All these shots are okay. Take your 105mm lens right in that first shot (because the reality is the rest are plenty sharp for someone that's just held this camera). It would appear you / or camera has focused on the far left bird so the others to the camera mid and centre are out of the dof therefore appear blurrier. Also probably a bit of subject movement here, which makes it hard to see if the AF system got the bird or somewhere between the bird and the far left fence (back focus - but I don't think so, I just think the bird moved and you pressed at that time with an insufficient speed of shutter. With the D810 I always use AF-C and AF-ON decoupled focus. It works best. This aside, you have to consider many factors if you want "pixel" sharpness. For a start, subject motion, photographer motion, focal length of lens and subject to camera distance are the main factors that influence this. Also lastly, the AF system, any AF system can miss slightly.

So...taking that 105mm lens. You may get sharp shots at 1/160, if you shoot a series of frames. However, certain frames may be blurred, if you move too much, subject moves, or moves faster and closer to your camera position. So, as a guide if you want to eliminate it, try doubling or trebling the shutter relative to the focal length (again base this on my other factors above). So a 50mm lens, I rarely shoot below 1/200 if stuff is moving, stationary well then I might do 1/100 or 1/50 with very steady hands in low light with a totally static subject. My 135mm lens, I rarely shoot it anything less than 1/320, and if stuff is moving fast I up it. It's experience, you'll learn and grow from it. A 24mm lens? I can shoot it right down to 1/15 and get pixel sharpness with a D810, on a very good day. If people are moving and are close up in my face, it'll be well over 1/100 and more. Oh and lastly, forget this shutter shock stuff, irrelevant here, and the camera is well dampened for it. If your not getting sharp photos with this camera, it's your fault (unless the AF system misses on occasion!).

Or you could just get a D700 and be done with it, the more I shoot with that thing the more I realise it's a camera that just doesn't get in the way. For weddings I will continue to use it. Both D700 and D810 are good cameras, for different reasons though.

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[stratman1976]

All these shots are okay. Take your 105mm lens right in that first shot (because the reality is the rest are plenty sharp for someone that's just held this camera). It would appear you / or camera has focused on the far left bird so the others to the camera mid and centre are out of the dof therefore appear blurrier. Also probably a bit of subject movement here, which makes it hard to see if the AF system got the bird or somewhere between the bird and the far left fence (back focus - but I don't think so, I just think the bird moved and you pressed at that time with an insufficient speed of shutter.

Problably, yes. Perhaps i was too focused (haha) on seeing errors that could be contributed to the D810.

With the D810 I always use AF-C and AF-ON decoupled focus. It works best. This aside, you have to consider many factors if you want "pixel" sharpness. For a start, subject motion, photographer motion, focal length of lens and subject to camera distance are the main factors that influence this. Also lastly, the AF system, any AF system can miss slightly.

In my case, i think it was shutter speed predominantly

So...taking that 105mm lens. You may get sharp shots at 1/160, if you shoot a series of frames. However, certain frames may be blurred, if you move too much, subject moves, or moves faster and closer to your camera position. So, as a guide if you want to eliminate it, try doubling or trebling the shutter relative to the focal length (again base this on my other factors above). So a 50mm lens, I rarely shoot below 1/200 if stuff is moving, stationary well then I might do 1/100 or 1/50 with very steady hands in low light with a totally static subject. My 135mm lens, I rarely shoot it anything less than 1/320, and if stuff is moving fast I up it. It's experience, you'll learn and grow from it. A 24mm lens? I can shoot it right down to 1/15 and get pixel sharpness with a D810, on a very good day. If people are moving and are close up in my face, it'll be well over 1/100 and more. Oh and lastly, forget this shutter shock stuff, irrelevant here, and the camera is well dampened for it. If your not getting sharp photos with this camera, it's your fault (unless the AF system misses on occasion!).

I agree, thank you for your comments

Or you could just get a D700 and be done with it, the more I shoot with that thing the more I realise it's a camera that just doesn't get in the way. For weddings I will continue to use it. Both D700 and D810 are good cameras, for different reasons though.

Maybe i will I like the D700 to death.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it is very appreciated as i am eager to push my own limits.

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[primeshooter]

All these shots are okay. Take your 105mm lens right in that first shot (because the reality is the rest are plenty sharp for someone that's just held this camera). It would appear you / or camera has focused on the far left bird so the others to the camera mid and centre are out of the dof therefore appear blurrier. Also probably a bit of subject movement here, which makes it hard to see if the AF system got the bird or somewhere between the bird and the far left fence (back focus - but I don't think so, I just think the bird moved and you pressed at that time with an insufficient speed of shutter.

Problably, yes. Perhaps i was too focused (haha) on seeing errors that could be contributed to the D810.

With the D810 I always use AF-C and AF-ON decoupled focus. It works best. This aside, you have to consider many factors if you want "pixel" sharpness. For a start, subject motion, photographer motion, focal length of lens and subject to camera distance are the main factors that influence this. Also lastly, the AF system, any AF system can miss slightly.

In my case, i think it was shutter speed predominantly

So...taking that 105mm lens. You may get sharp shots at 1/160, if you shoot a series of frames. However, certain frames may be blurred, if you move too much, subject moves, or moves faster and closer to your camera position. So, as a guide if you want to eliminate it, try doubling or trebling the shutter relative to the focal length (again base this on my other factors above). So a 50mm lens, I rarely shoot below 1/200 if stuff is moving, stationary well then I might do 1/100 or 1/50 with very steady hands in low light with a totally static subject. My 135mm lens, I rarely shoot it anything less than 1/320, and if stuff is moving fast I up it. It's experience, you'll learn and grow from it. A 24mm lens? I can shoot it right down to 1/15 and get pixel sharpness with a D810, on a very good day. If people are moving and are close up in my face, it'll be well over 1/100 and more. Oh and lastly, forget this shutter shock stuff, irrelevant here, and the camera is well dampened for it. If your not getting sharp photos with this camera, it's your fault (unless the AF system misses on occasion!).

I agree, thank you for your comments

Or you could just get a D700 and be done with it, the more I shoot with that thing the more I realise it's a camera that just doesn't get in the way. For weddings I will continue to use it. Both D700 and D810 are good cameras, for different reasons though.

Maybe i will I like the D700 to death.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it is very appreciated as i am eager to push my own limits.