About a year in - need help

[Hopeful_Beginner]

So, a quick update for anyone interested - today, I got the best results by A: bouncing my monolight off wall with umbrella attached, using low setting speedlight bounced against ceiling and B: removing the umbrella from my flash, bouncing the monolight off the wall on model's right side, having model move in closer to that corner, with a round reflector on the model's left side, held up by a step ladder (am in the process of buying a clamp for one of my light stands).

I also followed a quick tutorial on how to do basic levels editing in my photo editing software, and that made a HUGE difference also. I realize that I have been editing my photos all wrong this whole time, and that is not surprising as I never really learned how to do it properly, despite knowing how to read a histogram.

Here's a sample of A:


I did not do any work with healing tool to fix my complexion, just levels

 

[Hopeful_Beginner]

here's the unedited photo:

 

[Rico Tudor]

Here's a sample of A:

Elevate the key to 10 or 11 o'clock to avoid the sunset lighting effect, and further in front (key is currently more of a rim). You need a lot more fill unless this is a Gucci shoot. While bringing up the luminous curve from the original is essential, retaining correct hue in the highlights before they go to white is vital to a viable result. In this shot, only the skin tone is coming off the rails but the all-important fabric could be next. Postprocessing is a necessary skill. I'm a big fan of hard light but you should enlarge your key significantly in this application.

IMO.

I'd be happy to post my work on the original image if you permit.

--
Canon, Nikon, Contax RTS, Leica M, Sony, Profoto

 

[Frank Back]

You've discovered lighting ratios!

Download this freebie from Kodak and spend time with pages 133 to 138. You'll then know more than most. Really. - https://www.kodak.com/uploadedfiles...nce_Guide/kodak_essential_reference_guide.pdf

What's left is enough experience so you can see it. And execution. I've lot more in lighting gear than in camera gear but I always have these handy:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ANVIL-2-in-Spring-Clamp-99691/302755764

https://www.dollartree.com/bulk/White-Foam-Board Tape some together with white gaffer tape for the full length version and A clamp to stand.

I've been paid for portraits & head shots with one of these hung over a window . Hang it over a door way and fire speed light (zoomed out to 24mm) or mono light through it for a very large soft source. Or a couple of yards of white rip stop nylon

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...in-liner-in-white/1013876266?categoryId=13478

And you'll want some C47's but you may have them: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/sear...ICE_2|0&sortType=default&ci=40996&srtclk=sort

 

[Hopeful_Beginner]

would love to see your post processing work on the original photo, as well as layman's explanations please

 

[Hopeful_Beginner]

I will pore over the kodak document and apply the principles to my next works

about the curtain, what about one of those sheer polyester curtains, would these work?

also, foam boards and white duct tape are on my shopping list for this weekend - only difference between duct tape and gaffers tape is the adhesiveness right?

 

[Rico Tudor]

would love to see your post processing work on the original photo, as well as layman's explanations please

Processing sequence: color balance using b/g as white reference; curves to retain facial tones and bring up pants detail; bump saturation; crop; sharpen; resize. I used Gimp which is Photoshop-like freeware. Results would appear less flat if I didn't need to compensate for lack of fill. One can apply localized curves to bring up shadow detail but it's laborious and quickly looks fake.

Your space generates color casts which are evident on the b/g. This is difficult to fix unless you take broad measures like hanging white sheets on every wall and the ceiling.

--
Canon, Nikon, Contax RTS, Leica M, Sony, Profoto

 

[elliotn]

So, a quick update for anyone interested - today, I got the best results by A: bouncing my monolight off wall with umbrella attached, using low setting speedlight bounced against ceiling and B: removing the umbrella from my flash, bouncing the monolight off the wall on model's right side, having model move in closer to that corner, with a round reflector on the model's left side, held up by a step ladder (am in the process of buying a clamp for one of my light stands).

I also followed a quick tutorial on how to do basic levels editing in my photo editing software, and that made a HUGE difference also. I realize that I have been editing my photos all wrong this whole time, and that is not surprising as I never really learned how to do it properly, despite knowing how to read a histogram.

Here's a sample of A:


I did not do any work with healing tool to fix my complexion, just levels

That's close to the short loop lighting that Sailor has been advocating. If that's the look you're after, then great (just raise the light a couple of feet.) But it is a long way from the lighting that is typically used for fashion retail.

Here's a typical fashion retail shot, pulled at random off the M&S site — https://www.marksandspencer.com/floral-print-shirt-midi-dress/p/clp60446442?color=NEUTRAL



To achieve this look in your studio space, you need to:

1) ditch the umbrella

2) stop lighting from the side

3) stop lighting so close to the model

You need just one light source. It should be large (6ft+), and it should be quite some distance from the model (12ft+). It can be directly over the camera position, or to the left of camera (as here), or to the right.

The cheap ways of creating such a large light source have already been mentioned - bouncing your moonlight into a v-flat, shooting it through a shower curtain, or bouncing it against the studio ceiling/wall (if white).

 

[Frank Back]

I will pore over the kodak document and apply the principles to my next works

about the curtain, what about one of those sheer polyester curtains, would these work?

also, foam boards and white duct tape are on my shopping list for this weekend - only difference between duct tape and gaffers tape is the adhesiveness right?

Material doesn't matter, it just needs to be translucent so it diffuses the light. It does what an umbrella or softbox does, take a small light source and make it much larger.

The larger the source relative to the subject, the softer the light because so the more gradual the shadow transitions will be. A point source (like the sun on a blue sky day) will be hard light with sharply defined shadows.

But it will also reduce light intensity so diffusers are typically rated in Stops. A Stop is either a halving or doubling. So a 1 Stop diffusion panel will reduce light intensity by half. To compensate for that in your exposure you could use a 1 Stop larger aperture (ie f8 to 5.6) or 1 Stop increase in ISO (ie 100 to 200) or 1 Stop in shutter (ie 1/125th to 1/60th).

Gaff tape is cotton based so it tears easily and cleanly. More importantly, its a rubber based adhesive so it releases clean and leaves no residue on floors and gear. But stick it to itself and it's not coming apart. Its worth every penny. You can buy small rolls. I keep one in my camera bag and put a piece on my lens hoods so they don't fall off at events.

Duct tape will leave a mess and you'll need to cut it. Do not use duct tape to hold things to floors or walls or equipment unless your don't care about the floor, wall or equipment. And its typically shiny and reflective vs the typical matte of gaff tape. So it will show up on the seams of your foam boards - reflects specular light vs the the matte foam board and you won't enjoy that editing at all.

 

[Rico Tudor]

From Nordstrom.com, here's another typical retail fashion shot:

Well, okay, it's Gucci. Let's see: key hard and frontal and close, chest-sized speculars, shadows thrown across the room onto the back wall, wide angle lens, absolutely no "bokeh". The only rule in fashion photography: there are no rules. Note the huge fill, clean subject colors in a room far from neutral. Chances that photog used continuous light = 0.00%

--
Canon, Nikon, Contax RTS, Leica M, Sony, Profoto

 

[BAK]

Might I suggest you have illuminated the wrong side of the model and her clothes?

ADVICE (that conflicts with other advice you've received.

Do not use the wall as a lighting tool.

Using the wall forces you to move the model to change the light. Moving the model means all the other lights are now out of place.

BAK

 

[elliotn]

From Nordstrom.com, here's another typical retail fashion shot:

Well, okay, it's Gucci. Let's see: key hard and frontal and close, chest-sized speculars, shadows thrown across the room onto the back wall, wide angle lens, absolutely no "bokeh". The only rule in fashion photography: there are no rules. Note the huge fill, clean subject colors in a room far from neutral. Chances that photog used continuous light = 0.00%

A campaign by Harmony Korine, no less.

 

[Rico Tudor]

Wow, that's too cool!

 

[Sailor Blue]

Short Loop Lighting is called simply Short Lighting in this link. It is the number one most useful lighting setup for portraiture and works well for fashion.

Short loop lighting doesn't work well for fashion as it leaves too much of the clothing in the shade.

Perhaps I should have said simply Short Lighting. If you use short lighting you need feathering and either a reflector or fill light to control the density of the shadows.

Moving the light up or down or around the subject can leave you with short lighting but not with the loop of shadow from the nose along the line between the cheek and nose. Short loop lighting is always a good place to start but not always the best place to end.

You'll be hard pressed to find a single example of short loop lighting amongst the thousands of images on the womens' pages of the major fashion retailers' websites (so here in the UK - M&S, Topshop, H&M, Uniqlo, Zara etc.)

Classical portrait photography and contemporary fashion photography are two very different beasts. If the OP can tease out the differences she will be well on her way.

There are a limited number of ways of lighting fashion or portraits and what is popular changes over time with some ways falling out of use while other ways come back into use.

The biggest difference I have seen between portraiture and fashion photography is that you use a harder light for fashion to create harder edges to emphasize the drape and folds of the garment and the weave of the fabric. You still want to light the subject with flattering light and to control the density of shadows.

 

[Sailor Blue]

There’s a million creative ways to light but for 3/4 or full length fashion for ecomm, position of the keylight boils down to two options basically: centered over camera, on axis toward model, tilted down at about 30-45 degrees and with the height low enough the catch shows in the upper half of the eye;

Butterfly lighting.

or similar height and distance, just 45 degrees to one side, feathered toward the side of the face in shadow (so that it’s no longer in shadow).

Short lighting without worrying about the loop of shadow from the nose. Adding a reflector or fill light gives you even more control over the shadow densities.

 

[Sailor Blue]

I will pore over the kodak document and apply the principles to my next works

about the curtain, what about one of those sheer polyester curtains, would these work?

I don't recommend a soft light for fashion but if want to try it then aim your monolight into a V-flat and use the bounced light as your large soft light source. It is simpler and easier than trying to shoot through curtains or fabrics.

The typical thin white curtains for windows won't diffuse the light enough so you would get a hot spot in the light that passes through the curtain.

Plastic shower curtains are better diffusers but you may find a hot spot in the light.

Translucent white nylon or Dacron fabric from a fabric store works well as a diffuser for portraiture or for small product photography.

Generally the fabric is stretched across a frame to produce a scrim, which is backlit. Hanging a shower curtain to translucent white nylon or Dacron fabric from a doorway, from background stands, or even from one stand with a horizontal board bolted to it are other ways of producing a scrim. Here is an example of a commercial scrim but it is easy to make a square or rectangular frame using PVC piping and joints then clamping the fabric to the frame.

Adorama - Matthews 48x48" Solid Frame Scrim with White Artificial Silk

By varying the distance of the scrim from the subject and the distance of the light from the scrim you can change the lighting from extremely soft to fairly hard and roughly control what parts of the subject are lit. It takes time to learn how to use a scrim well so I wouldn't recommend using scrims to you.

If you want to try a scrim take your camera with you when shopping. Set the lens to Manual Focus and ∞, place one layer of fabric over the lens, aim at a bright light source, and find the exposure. Add a second layer and see how much the exposure changed. You want fabric that reduces the exposure by about 1.3 stops to 2 stops. The more stops of light the fabric absorbs the more it will diffuse the light and reduce any hot spot.

I don't recommend using a large diffuse light source for fashion but I know that it is used, and elliotn's post is a good example of how it is used. This, however, is not a simple large light source like a curtain or fabric hung vertically and backlit, or even a scrim, it is a 60" or larger diameter umbrella elevated and aimed at the subject. You aren't ready to try this and you don't have the room in your studio for a large umbrella like this.

Stick with simple lighting.

jlafferty summed up the types of hard lighting I would also recommend, butterfly and short lighting while using an adjustable reflector or fill light to control shadow densities.

also, foam boards and white duct tape are on my shopping list for this weekend - only difference between duct tape and gaffers tape is the adhesiveness right?

Duct/Duck tape can will leave a residue when removed. Gaffer's tape doesn't leave a residue even if left in place for days and days. Gaffer's tape also has a very strong adhesive so be careful you don't do things like pull the paint and paper surface off a plaster board wall when removing the tape.

B&H - Impact Gaffer Tape (Black, 2" x 55 yd) GT10-255B B&H Photo

 

[itsDing]

Be carefull when using a tether Sailor, dont trip over it.

 

[jlafferty]

Big difference between campaign/ad/editorial fashion and ecomm. That is to say that while there may be no rules at all with the former, the latter is all about rules, precision and consistency.

From Nordstrom.com, here's another typical retail fashion shot:

Well, okay, it's Gucci. Let's see: key hard and frontal and close, chest-sized speculars, shadows thrown across the room onto the back wall, wide angle lens, absolutely no "bokeh". The only rule in fashion photography: there are no rules. Note the huge fill, clean subject colors in a room far from neutral. Chances that photog used continuous light = 0.00%

--
http://jimlafferty.com
General scoundrel. Evocative beats academic.