a550's Face Detection feature. Good idea?

[Amirk]

beaky

Remind me again how taking one shot, waiting for LCD playback, reviewing, re-
composing, taking a second (or more) shot is quicker than taking a single shot.
Oh, and your subject has now disappeared as well.

I already answered you . Even if you are using DOF preview, you would have to look at LCD anyway to confirm that you got it right. DOF preview is not precise, and you can get misses anyway, especially at lower F-stops where it's dim. You offered a 10-photo pillar challenge. How would know all your 10 photos met the criteria if you don't check the results on LCD? What if there are misses? How would you know there are misses without checking the result on LCD? DOF offers nothing if you need to confirm on LCD anyway.

You have been spanked, even if you don't admit it.

 

[tko]

I can't find the link that analyzes this effect. Basically, a pure mat/ground focusing screen allows accurate DOF preview because all the light is projected onto the screen. However, modern dSLR use microprism focusing screens to make the view brighter (which you need w/a crop sensor). The microprism shoots some of the light straight through. This portion of the light does not accurate represent DOF over some range because your eyes are focusing directly on the subject, not on the projected image on the screen.

Here's a note from the Nikon F4 focusing screen web site.

"Type G: Clear Fresnel field with extra-bright 12mm-dia. microprism focusing spot for viewing and focusing in poor light. Four models (G1, G2, G3, G4) available correspond to lenses with different focal lengths. However, Nikon warns Depth-of-field preview is not suitable with this screen as the overall microprism may project confusing visual when activated the DOF lever."

 

[beakydave]

Remind me again how taking one shot, waiting for LCD playback, reviewing, re-
composing, taking a second (or more) shot is quicker than taking a single shot.
Oh, and your subject has now disappeared as well.

I already answered you . Even if you are using DOF preview, you would have to look at LCD anyway to confirm that you got it right. DOF preview is not precise, and you can get misses anyway, especially at lower F-stops where it's dim. You offered a 10-photo pillar challenge. How would know all your 10 photos met the criteria if you don't check the results on LCD? What if there are misses? How would you know there are misses without checking the result on LCD? DOF offers nothing if you need to confirm on LCD anyway.

You have been spanked, even if you don't admit it.

No you didn't answer me - explain how taking one shot, waiting for LCD playback, reviewing, re-composing, taking a second (or more) shot is quicker than taking a single shot. Let me guess - you can't. Try timing it with a real camera (if you have one).

Just what part of "my DOF preview gives me accurate results, I don't need to check LCD" do you not understand? I would be confident that all my 10 shots were correct because I'd know I'd got the DOF correct before pressing the shutter. That is what DOF preview is for. As I say, just because you're incapable of using it correctly doesn't mean that others are.

Carry on spanking - you're missing every time.

 

[Russell Ervin]

--



http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

 

[Amirk]

Just what part of "my DOF preview gives me accurate results, I don't need to
check LCD" do you not understand?

Not true. DOF is not precise and you get misses. With smaller F-Stop the OVF is dark, and it's not easy to discern the exact focus area. You get misses anyway. The only way to confirm whether DOF met the exact criteria is to look at the final result on LCD. You are not skipping the step of looking at LCD with DOF preview. The results need to be confirmed. What exactly does DOF offer if yo have to check LCD anyway? Nothing.

You have lost the debate, beaky. Keep trying harder.

 

[mike_2008]

As one of the debaters it is not for you to judge who wins but rather the people following the debate. Unfortunately there is no one left following this debate as it got boring a while ago. You seem to think there is an absolute best way of doing things and anyone who doesn't follow 'your' way is a loser. Why not accept we are all different, and on technique there are no perfect ways of doing things, only that which makes us most comfortable and which experience shows us works well.

You have lost the debate, beaky. Keep trying harder.

--
http://mike2008.smugmug.com

 

[beakydave]

Nah - far too amusing

--



http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

 

[beakydave]

DOF is not precise and you get misses.

Not true. What are you basing your claims on? I'm basing mine on actual usage of a camera, something that appears to be alien to you.

But your claim is a red herring anyway.

Now stop side-stepping the issue and answer the question put to you directly - explain how it is quicker to take a shot, wait for LCD playback, review, re-compose, fire off another shot (or more) than it is to take a single shot. It's a straightforward question - if you can't answer it sensibly then enough said.

 

[Amirk]

beakyd

Now stop side-stepping the issue and answer the question put to you directly -
explain how it is quicker to take a shot, wait for LCD playback, review, re-

compose, fire off another shot (or more) than it is to take a single shot. It's a
straightforward question - if you can't answer it sensibly then enough said.

I already answered you. With DOF preview you still need to confirm the result on LCD. You are not side-stepping LCD playback.

the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo
for apertures wider than 2.8 ..

the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo
for apertures wider than 2.8 ..

the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo
for apertures wider than 2.8 ..

Did you get that? Or do you want me to repeat it a few more times?

f1.4 up to f2.8, even when you press DOF button, you are not going to notice any difference in OVF. When you take the picture and look at LCD, only then will you see the real DOF.

Viewfinders of digital AF cameras are optimized for brightness, at the expense of DOF precision. Stop lying that you get exact preview with DOF button. You don't. When F-stop is too small, the viewfinder is too dark to judge. When F-stop is larger than F2.8, the viewfinder does not show the exact DOF that you get in real photo. In fact, with F-Stop F-2.8 and up, you won't even notice anything if you press DOF -- even if you do, the result in actual photo will be different.

The results need to be confirmed via LCD ANYWAY. You are doing an extra step with DOF preview, without side-stepping confirmation step on LCD.

Try hearder, beakyd .. try harder.

 

[beakydave]

Now stop side-stepping the issue and answer the question put to you directly -
explain how it is quicker to take a shot, wait for LCD playback, review, re-

compose, fire off another shot (or more) than it is to take a single shot. It's a
straightforward question - if you can't answer it sensibly then enough said.

I already answered you. With DOF preview you still need to confirm the result on LCD. You are not side-stepping LCD playback.

the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo
for apertures wider than 2.8 ..

the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo
for apertures wider than 2.8 ..

the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo
for apertures wider than 2.8 ..

Did you get that? Or you want me to repeat it a few more times?

f1.4 up to f2.8, even when you press DOF button, you are not going to notice any difference in DOF in OVF. When you take the picture and look at LCD, only then will you see the real DOF.

Viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness, at the expense of DOF precision. Stop lying that you get exact preview with DOF button. You don't. When F-stop is too small, the viewfinder is too dark to judge. When F-stop is larger than F2.8, the viewfinder does not show the exact DOF that you get in real photo.

The results need to be confirmed via LCD. You are doing an extra step with DOF preview, without side-stepping vonfirmation step on LCD.

Try hearder, beakyd .. try harder.

Which website did you cut and paste that from? So you've had to resort to calling me a liar, rather than answering the question. Says everything, really. I've nothing to prove to you. Do you really think it matters to me in the slightest whether or not you believe me? You really are a tool of the first order.

 

[Amirk]

Note beakyd is now resorting to insults. Ha ha ha!

He didn't even know that viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness, at the expense of DOF precision. The fact is that you are not even going to notice a difference when you press the DOF preview button with F-stop greater than F2.8. For such larger aperature, the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo! And if F-stop is too smalll, it will be too dark!

You still must confirm that you got correct DOF on LCD! If not, you will have to take another shot.

Thanks for playing, beakyd. You have been educated,

 

[beakydave]

Note beakyd is now resorting to insults. Ha ha ha!

Only because it seems to be the only language you understand

He didn't even know that viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness, at the expense of DOF precision. The fact is that you are not even going to notice a difference when you press the DOF preview button with F-stop greater than F2.8. For such larger aperature, the viewfinder does not show the DOF that you get in the actual photo! And if F-stop is too smalll, it will be too dark!

You still must confirm that you got correct DOF on LCD! If not, you will have to take another shot.

Thanks for playing, beakyd. You have been educated,

You can carry on quoting the words of others as much as you want. I'm only interested in actual results from my camera. I can reassure you that the output from my 50 1.4 at f/2 is exactly as I see it in the viewfinder. Call me a liar if you want - means nothing and if you think that wins you the argument....


But really, have you considered how idiotic your points are? At apertures greater than 2.8 (which I hardly ever use) I don't need to check DOF. And if you could be bothered reading what I'd said earlier I acknowledged that there are circumstances where DOF preview is harder to use. But not nearly as often as you seem to think.

 

[Kzoozoomer]

Phixel is posting this as a wind up. Please don't humour him.

Strange post. What are you implying?
-Phil

Strange post indeed, especially since it essentially stopped being your thread 2 days ago when two guys decided to turn it into their own internet ping-pong match.

 

[RedFox88]

DOF preview is not useless on digital.

And what happens if that magic moment has gone?? Re-take the shot won't cut it.

If it's so useless why do other models and makers include it? Find me a higher level camera without a DOF preview..

You can see the DOF while you are looking through the viewfinder. No need to shoot then view the LCD. Plus you can look at a few different aperture values quickly while keep looking through the viewfinder without having to take a few shots then go review them.

And as Barry said.. if the moment or light is gone while you're chimping and you didn't fine tune your exposure because you were still looking at DOF.

 

[Amirk]

RedFox88

You can see the DOF while you are looking through the viewfinder. No need to
shoot then view the LCD.

Nope. The viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness, at the expense of DOF precision. DOF seen via the OVF is nowhere close to exact. And when F-stop is larger than F2.8, you won't even see a difference via DOF preview.

 

[beakydave]

You can see the DOF while you are looking through the viewfinder. No need to
shoot then view the LCD.

Nope. The viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness, at the expense of DOF precision. DOF seen via the OVF is nowhere close to exact. And when F-stop is larger than F2.8, you won't even see a difference via DOF preview.

Stop quoting words of others and convince us you have actual expereince. When aperture is greater than 2.8 (which in the real world I hardly use) DOF preview is unncessary.

But since you're so fond of listening to others, rather than using a camera yourself to find out the truth, here's an extract from the first site I came across on a Google search on DOF preview:

"Professionals applaud its virtues. However, many amateurs say it’s a waste of time".

Well, I'm no pro, but one thing is certain - you are an amateur in every sense of the word.

Here are some more :

"Like many beginners, I too wasted a lot of time taking numerous images while changing the aperture settings between shots, until I found the setting that blurred my background exactly as I intended. Now I preview the background blur (or sharpness depending on what you require) and correct the depth of field before taking the photograph."

Just accept, if you are able, that there are photographers who, unlike you, are less interested in theory than they are in taking real photographs with real cameras. Just because you are incapable of using, or have no confidence in, a particular technique doesn't mean everyone else is. Go ahead - call us all liars, it's a pointless accusation when we know what the real world truth is.

 

[Amirk]

Stop quoting words of others and convince us you have actual expereince.

Whining about quotes will not change the fact that the viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness -- NOT DOF precision.

DID YOU GET THAT? Let me repeat:

The viewfinders of current AF cameras are optimized for brightness -- NOT DOF precision.

That's a FACT. DOF seen via the OVF is nowhere close to exact. You will not see the same DOF in the actual photo that you might see in DOF preview.

And that simple fact crushes your claim that DOF has any use at all in modern digital SLR. It doesn't.

Well, I'm no pro, but one thing is certain - you are an amateur in every sense of
the word.

We already know you are no pro. You are a troll.

As for "pros", we have many here who claim to be pro and most of them are the biggest idiots on this forum -- take Barry and Walt (the anti-liveview grandma) for example. Thanks god I am not a "pro".

beakyd, you have been defeated and humiliated.

Don't give up, though. Try harder.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

And that simple fact crushes your claim that DOF has any use at all in modern digital SLR. It doesn't.

So please explain why many models of DSLR have a DOF preview then?

We know the DOF in not representative at fast apertures in DOF preview, but then we know it is for other ones.

You seem to have again lost the argument, and continue to spam this forum with useless dribble, more fighting and name calling..what a great forum member you are!

 

[Amirk]

beakyd

Stop quoting words of others and convince us you have actual expereince.
When aperture is greater than 2.8 (which in the real world I hardly use) DOF
preview is unncessary.

Notice what kind of idiot we are dealing with. He now claims that DOF preview is "unnecessary" for F-stop 2.8 and greater (after I told him that you won't even notice any difference in viewfinder with DOF preview button if F-Stop is F2.8 or greater).

And DOF preview is NOT usable with F-Stop F5.6 and greater since the viewfinder gets too dark. What's left then?

And DOF preview is not accurate anyway, as I already said above.

So here we have this situation: beaky now admits DOF is useless with F-Stop 2.8 and greater.

beaky admits that with F-stop too small, like F5.6 and above, the viewfinder gets too dark with DOF.

And DOF is inaccurate anyway in between.

Thanks for admitting that DOF is a useless gimmick, beakyd.

 

[beakydave]

Ah, imagination running riot again!

Stop quoting words of others and convince us you have actual expereince.
When aperture is greater than 2.8 (which in the real world I hardly use) DOF
preview is unncessary.

Notice what kind of idiot we are dealing with. He now claims that DOF preview is "unnecessary" for F-stop 2.8 and greater (after I told him that you won't even notice any difference in viewfinder with DOF preview button if F-Stop is F2.8 or greater).

And DOF preview is NOT usable with F-Stop F5.6 and greater since the viewfinder gets too dark. What's left then?

And DOF preview is not accurate anyway, as I already said above.

So here we have this situation: beaky now admits DOF is useless with F-Stop 2.8 and greater.

I didn't say it was useless - I said it was unnecessary, just as flash is when shooting a landscape in bright sunlight. Or are you now claiming that flash is also a useless gimmick? It wouldn't surprise me. Yes you did 'tell me' that I wouldn't notice any difference with apertures of 2.8 or greater. I told you that yes I can, even if I don't need to use it at such apertures. You chose not to believe me - do I care?

beaky admits that with F-stop too small, like F5.6 and above, the viewfinder gets too dark with DOF.

And that is perhaps the most inaccurate statement you have come up with. If you're going to call me a liar, at least have the decency to refer to what I actually said. At no point did I ever refer to f5.6. At no point did I say that the viewfinder gets too dark. So, you've had to resort to inventing comments in order to defend your increasingly untenable position.

And DOF is inaccurate anyway in between.

Just because you are unable to use it properly doesn't make it so.

Thanks for admitting that DOF is a useless gimmick, beakyd.

The only person to do that here is you