Albert Voss
Forum Enthusiast
Some of them could, as they are unexpected bad. But others, as the ISO range comparison came out as if real.
Albert
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A1 versus 10D image comparison
- Thread starter Albert Voss
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Albert
MarkLe
Veteran Member
I am sorry Albert,
but this comparison doesn't make sense: I came to this forum to get info on the A1 for a friend who asked me about minolta: when I saw the images I was shocked: then I realized that really doesn't seem fair at all (to me).
If I look on my first pictures I can post a couple of bad shots taken with my 1Ds as well... in that picture the A1 had pretty much everything wrong, starting from the Wb,shutter speed, aperture and ending with focus ..everything
I'll keep looking for infos.
Mark, NYC
1ds,10D,s400
but this comparison doesn't make sense: I came to this forum to get info on the A1 for a friend who asked me about minolta: when I saw the images I was shocked: then I realized that really doesn't seem fair at all (to me).
If I look on my first pictures I can post a couple of bad shots taken with my 1Ds as well... in that picture the A1 had pretty much everything wrong, starting from the Wb,shutter speed, aperture and ending with focus ..everything
I'll keep looking for infos.
Mark, NYC
1ds,10D,s400
Arun Vajpey
Well-known member
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digislr
Veteran Member
The 300D, Sigma SD9, 7hi comparison was cool. I preffered the 7hi shots the majority of the time in that one.
I admit, I did my own tests with the A1 and Fuji S2, but the A1 isnot a DSLR, so it should not be compared to one. BUT the guy who posted the 10D/A1 images may have just used auto settings on both. I did this with the S2 and the A1 choked with the WB. Also, the crops are going to show the weakness of the A1.
I have been plugging away with the S2, but at times I do feel like I would of held on to the A1 (even though I had a lemon) becuase it does have the ability to take incredible shots.
I admit, I did my own tests with the A1 and Fuji S2, but the A1 isnot a DSLR, so it should not be compared to one. BUT the guy who posted the 10D/A1 images may have just used auto settings on both. I did this with the S2 and the A1 choked with the WB. Also, the crops are going to show the weakness of the A1.
I have been plugging away with the S2, but at times I do feel like I would of held on to the A1 (even though I had a lemon) becuase it does have the ability to take incredible shots.
both cams were doing their job with auto-whitebalance. seems that the minolta a1 had problems with that under the test conditions.
but don't look on the wrong colours only, also look on the noise which is really bad on the a1 shot especially aboth iso 100.
this testshots aren't surprising, it's what i expected.
the logical conclusion is that you'll get more "horsepower" for spending more money.
regards,
werner
but don't look on the wrong colours only, also look on the noise which is really bad on the a1 shot especially aboth iso 100.
this testshots aren't surprising, it's what i expected.
the logical conclusion is that you'll get more "horsepower" for spending more money.
regards,
werner
I read about this comparison in the german D7x forum. As far as I remember, the owner of the A1 just bought his cam and set up a test with his buddy (10 D owner).
As he was not too familiar with the A1 yet the whitebalance was completely off. (maybe amongst other settings)
However, even if there was a user who was experienced with the A1, what kind of result do you expect?
For about 3 times the price of the A1 you get the Canon 10 D and lense, and it performs quite a bit better than the A1. Surpise, surprise.
So don't take this test any more serious than you would a comparison between a VW Golf and a Porsche 911.
The 10 D is a super cam, and it would be my "step up" of choice if I ever feel the desire to go deeper into photography. The A1 would have looked much better against an equaly price / non dslr 5 Mpix cam.
P.S. I don't own a Minolta digicam yet!
As he was not too familiar with the A1 yet the whitebalance was completely off. (maybe amongst other settings)
However, even if there was a user who was experienced with the A1, what kind of result do you expect?
For about 3 times the price of the A1 you get the Canon 10 D and lense, and it performs quite a bit better than the A1. Surpise, surprise.
So don't take this test any more serious than you would a comparison between a VW Golf and a Porsche 911.
The 10 D is a super cam, and it would be my "step up" of choice if I ever feel the desire to go deeper into photography. The A1 would have looked much better against an equaly price / non dslr 5 Mpix cam.
P.S. I don't own a Minolta digicam yet!
lharris
Veteran Member
My local store does this with all their cameras and did a test with the A1, 10D, Rebel and Pentax. The A1 compared quite favorably --in fact amazing.
I would like to note that one of the reasons for the store doing this is that
I have found a variance in A1 units performance. My first unit is in dispute with the seller--but it was defective as per Minolta regarding several items and most definitely the white balance.
With a working A1 and aknowledgeable user, the A1 did extremely well. Even in blow-ups. Now this isn't perfect because defaults were used and
sharpening algorithms vary--but that A1 unit--the one I am keeping-was delivering to expectations in performance.
I wrote Phil regarding some A1 variances. Whether he considers that in his review--is of course--up to him.
Regards.
I would like to note that one of the reasons for the store doing this is that
I have found a variance in A1 units performance. My first unit is in dispute with the seller--but it was defective as per Minolta regarding several items and most definitely the white balance.
With a working A1 and aknowledgeable user, the A1 did extremely well. Even in blow-ups. Now this isn't perfect because defaults were used and
sharpening algorithms vary--but that A1 unit--the one I am keeping-was delivering to expectations in performance.
I wrote Phil regarding some A1 variances. Whether he considers that in his review--is of course--up to him.
Regards.
Not only is the white balance wrong, but the photos are not in focus.
It seems to me a lot of people in this forum using D10s must be a bit insecure in their purchase if they have to constantly compare such obviously different cameras.
If you're making a living with your camera, or have money to blow, go with the D10.
If you're on a budget of less than $1000 dollars and want to have your camera more often than not (and don't want to lug around a tripod I might add) the A1 is a top contender.
Enough already. Go take some pictures!
Visit my galleries at:
http://www.pbase.com/georgew
No one made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.
Edmund Burke
It seems to me a lot of people in this forum using D10s must be a bit insecure in their purchase if they have to constantly compare such obviously different cameras.
If you're making a living with your camera, or have money to blow, go with the D10.
If you're on a budget of less than $1000 dollars and want to have your camera more often than not (and don't want to lug around a tripod I might add) the A1 is a top contender.
Enough already. Go take some pictures!
Visit my galleries at:
http://www.pbase.com/georgew
No one made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.
Edmund Burke
KEITH-C
Forum Pro
The whole scene at the moment seems be cluttered with people who have only a rudimentary understanding of cameras let alone qualified to comment on new digital cameras.
These comparisons are of no value whatsoever! The A1 pictures are not even approaching my D7i in quality. What ever the reason they are out off focus ,incorrectly exposed & the white balance is incorrect. I think that it is important to say this because any unwary person who is trusting enough to believe these pics as a truthfull representation of the two cameras would not touch the Minolta A1 with a bargepole.
In other areas of activity these shots would amount to a libel worthy of contemplating legal action for miss-representation. I will be generous & state that whoever took the A1 images just didn't know what he was doing.
Maybe my monitor needs adjusting but even the colours on the 10D shots look a little odd.
Keith-C
These comparisons are of no value whatsoever! The A1 pictures are not even approaching my D7i in quality. What ever the reason they are out off focus ,incorrectly exposed & the white balance is incorrect. I think that it is important to say this because any unwary person who is trusting enough to believe these pics as a truthfull representation of the two cameras would not touch the Minolta A1 with a bargepole.
In other areas of activity these shots would amount to a libel worthy of contemplating legal action for miss-representation. I will be generous & state that whoever took the A1 images just didn't know what he was doing.
Maybe my monitor needs adjusting but even the colours on the 10D shots look a little odd.
Keith-C
The original poster states that the 300D was using RRAW files. With RAW files you can set whatever white balance you want before conversion!
ANY camera the uses AWB with strobes (or 250w softlights) from the PC sync socket will have THE EXACT SAME ISSUE as the A1 because it sets its auto white balance based on the available ligfht in the room, but the actual EXPOSURE gets done with the strobes/soft light - which is a completely different light than the camera used for AWB. That's why you ALWAYS need to set manual white balance when using an external light source via the PC sync terminal socket, unless you are using RAW.
Paul
ANY camera the uses AWB with strobes (or 250w softlights) from the PC sync socket will have THE EXACT SAME ISSUE as the A1 because it sets its auto white balance based on the available ligfht in the room, but the actual EXPOSURE gets done with the strobes/soft light - which is a completely different light than the camera used for AWB. That's why you ALWAYS need to set manual white balance when using an external light source via the PC sync terminal socket, unless you are using RAW.
Paul
It would have been just as far off with the 10D - except he was using that with RAW files. With RAW files you can set you own white balance before conversion to JPG. The same could have been done with the A1 images if they would have been shot in RAW!
Excellent results. Take a look at this site where someone does a much fairer comparison. In some cases the lowly 7i (pre-model to A1) delivers better detail than the 300D with kit lens. Take a look at the yellow tree leaves on PICT2174a.jpg:
http://www.pbase.com/maderik/c_fall
Your making an assumption based on NO good data. At ISO 100 the A1 can do suprisingly well against the 10D with EF lenses.
Very bad analogy.
You have a lot to say, but what are you basing it on? That completly laughable link of the original poster?
I wish you would get an A1 because then you wouldn't be talking so much nonsense.
Paul
Ed Starkey
Leading Member
Of course the A1 is showing more detail because it has that HUGE DOF compared to the 10D at the same F-stop.
And besides WB being off and all, RAW just gives 1 stop more of latitude with highlights and shadows.
Will you be able to tell in a 4x6 picture? I don't think so.
What about a 11x14" the A1 will lose - hands down.
ED
And besides WB being off and all, RAW just gives 1 stop more of latitude with highlights and shadows.
Will you be able to tell in a 4x6 picture? I don't think so.
What about a 11x14" the A1 will lose - hands down.
ED
Hi Paul,
maybe you got my post all wrong. As a matter of fact, I have been following the A1 very closely since it was announced. I was just about to buy a 7hi when then news of the A1 broke. The features of the A1 sounded so good, that I stayed patient awaiting the release.
As soon as it hit the shops her in Germany, many members of the http://www.D7-forum.de.vu bought the cam and started testing and posting sample pictures.
I assume that the member who did the comparison of A1 to 10 D wanted to show how good the A1 can do against the no doubt very good 10 D (especially with the lense set up used in this test). But as he was quite inexperienced with the cam, it tourned out the way it did (the owner of the 10 D is a different person. Not the same user!) So what I wanted to say was, this was a bad setup to call it a fair comparison. It would probably be best to erase the old test and do a new one, at least concerning the A1.
That said, I still think that the 10 D can tourn out better pictures when equiped with the right lense and a good photographer using it. I have seen plenty of very good photos from the 10 D in very difficult light situations. I know that the Minolta 2/3 chip can not match that quality, especially at higher ISO settings.
When reaching my decision of which cam to buy, I narrowed it down to the A1 and the Canon 300 D (same price range).
I now concluded that the A1 will be my cam of choice, as I have seen the forum members turning out some very good photos and the usability of the cam is much better for my use than the 300 D. I love the range of the lense and the AS will be a very usable feature for me as I do not want to carry any extra equipment (tripod, lenses etc) around with me.
Paul, as you accusing me of talking too much nonsens, I assume you do so to defend the A1. I am sure I will defend it as well as soon as I get my hands on it, but maybe in a more settle way, as I think people are entitled to their own opinion. I have read the threads on noise and the FOSi bug (long night exposure) and still think, the A1 is the right cam for me!
I that sense, I hope we will be able to share constructive hints and experiences in the future.
Cheers
Smatty
maybe you got my post all wrong. As a matter of fact, I have been following the A1 very closely since it was announced. I was just about to buy a 7hi when then news of the A1 broke. The features of the A1 sounded so good, that I stayed patient awaiting the release.
As soon as it hit the shops her in Germany, many members of the http://www.D7-forum.de.vu bought the cam and started testing and posting sample pictures.
I assume that the member who did the comparison of A1 to 10 D wanted to show how good the A1 can do against the no doubt very good 10 D (especially with the lense set up used in this test). But as he was quite inexperienced with the cam, it tourned out the way it did (the owner of the 10 D is a different person. Not the same user!) So what I wanted to say was, this was a bad setup to call it a fair comparison. It would probably be best to erase the old test and do a new one, at least concerning the A1.
That said, I still think that the 10 D can tourn out better pictures when equiped with the right lense and a good photographer using it. I have seen plenty of very good photos from the 10 D in very difficult light situations. I know that the Minolta 2/3 chip can not match that quality, especially at higher ISO settings.
When reaching my decision of which cam to buy, I narrowed it down to the A1 and the Canon 300 D (same price range).
I now concluded that the A1 will be my cam of choice, as I have seen the forum members turning out some very good photos and the usability of the cam is much better for my use than the 300 D. I love the range of the lense and the AS will be a very usable feature for me as I do not want to carry any extra equipment (tripod, lenses etc) around with me.
Paul, as you accusing me of talking too much nonsens, I assume you do so to defend the A1. I am sure I will defend it as well as soon as I get my hands on it, but maybe in a more settle way, as I think people are entitled to their own opinion. I have read the threads on noise and the FOSi bug (long night exposure) and still think, the A1 is the right cam for me!
I that sense, I hope we will be able to share constructive hints and experiences in the future.
Cheers
Smatty
Albert Voss
Forum Enthusiast
Not much to add, I basically think on the same lines.
Knowing that the (in)famous comparison I pointed to, had its shortcomings that are obvious, I still thouht it worth a view. That it did stir up such an furor, much more than on the german forum, came as a surprise for me.
Albert
Knowing that the (in)famous comparison I pointed to, had its shortcomings that are obvious, I still thouht it worth a view. That it did stir up such an furor, much more than on the german forum, came as a surprise for me.
Albert
morepix
Veteran Member
Yeah, but there's still something I fail to understand about your point. If the A1 set WB based on ambient room light, which is presumably warmer than flash, and then if the photo was taken with strobe light, I should think the result would be too blue, not too yellow. White balance set for 3500 deg K, actual light at 5000 deg K ==> blue exposure, in my book.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
How can you what the ambient light was, or the temperature of the 250w softlights?
Paul
Paul
That picture taken on the 300D was at 31mm and F8. With that sensor size the DOF should cover about 8ft to infinity (using hyperfocal distance focusing) . The bushes in front of the tree or other trees in back of the tree, do not appear to be any sharper, but the objects in the very foreground are obviously OOF. That shows me the 300D was focused correctly and the aperture and focal length combination would have provided sufficient DOF.
Paul
Paul
morepix
Veteran Member
digislr
Veteran Member
Actually I just looked again and saw there was more than one pic. To me, his A1 images are consistent with my A1 images when auto WB is used. These are 100% crops guys. This is what the A1 churns out at 100%.
Plus, its not meant to be better than a 10D, it just cant happen. To me, it appears normal and the same as my A1 shots at 100%
Plus, its not meant to be better than a 10D, it just cant happen. To me, it appears normal and the same as my A1 shots at 100%
Ed Starkey
Leading Member
And I thought this was shot with the 10D, not the 300D??
Anyway, what lens was used on the 10D/300D for the basket shot? Anyone know how far away the camera was to the subject (so we can determine DOF properly)??
Canonite!?
I was a happy Minoltanite (??) up until I sold my D7i (which I loved). Is the A1 a great camera?? Sure is!! But not in the same class as the 10D. If I had the money I'd own both - but a poor old engineer like myself has to have only one.
Also if anyone is hoping the A1 is in the same class, please don't. It sure is at the top of consumer digicams, but there is a difference between the two. As long as that is understood, all A1 owners should be very, very happy!!
ED
Anyway, what lens was used on the 10D/300D for the basket shot? Anyone know how far away the camera was to the subject (so we can determine DOF properly)??
Canonite!?
I was a happy Minoltanite (??) up until I sold my D7i (which I loved). Is the A1 a great camera?? Sure is!! But not in the same class as the 10D. If I had the money I'd own both - but a poor old engineer like myself has to have only one.
Also if anyone is hoping the A1 is in the same class, please don't. It sure is at the top of consumer digicams, but there is a difference between the two. As long as that is understood, all A1 owners should be very, very happy!!
ED
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