A double upgrade

[Tannin]

A double upgrade. (This might give you a chuckle.)

I'm an SLR man. So much, much nicer than those mirrorless things. (I had an EOS R once and it was truly awful. Worst Canon camera I have ever owned.)
Alas, I have one particular trip coming up where an SLR really won't be suitable, so I reluctantly went into my local camera shop and bought an R5 II last week.
It was very different to my 5DS R or 5D IV and I had a lot to learn. Normally, when I buy a new camera, I expect to just pick it up, adjust the settings to my liking, and start working with it straight away. But this mirrorless thing was going to need some concentrated study before it could be considered really usable. (Wildlife photography demands catching the instant - you can't afford to be mucking around trying to figure out how to change the AF mode or add some exposure compensation.So far as possible, you want everything set just the same as on all your other cameras so that you can rely on fast muscle memory to get the shot.)
So I sat down with it and with various on-line manuals. (Gone are the days when you used to get a proper manual in the box.) Spent hours and hours ... getting more and more frustrated.
The on-line manuals were often just plain wrong. They were telling me to press such-and-such and it wasn't there, they were saying to select a function in the green menu and there is no damn green menu. And so on.
I did take it out and try a few shots. It takes nice pictures, but I'm not entirely convinced about the controls and the viewfinder is really bloody awful. That nasty little EOS R I had for 18 months before I sold it had a better viewfinder than the new camera. (Or so my memory says - it was a while back so I could be dreaming.)
But this new one - you'd think that for $6000 retail Canon could make a better EVF. Very poor colour, not remotely natural. You can tweak the EVF white balance, but it doesn't help, you just get a different sort of awful. Not much contrast either.
But what about all those things about it that don't line up with what the manuals are saying? Maybe my copy is old stock and has old, outdated firmware? So I looked that up: latest firmware from Canon is 1.1.1. What is my copy running? 1.7. Eh? Is that 1.0.7? No, very clearly 1.7. Something is wrong.
So I turn the camera around looking to see where it says "Mark II" on the body. I can't find "Mark II" anywhere. Look at the box it came in.
Yep - the chap at the shop had charged me for an R5 II, and invoiced me for an R5 II, but the camera he handed me was an R5 Mark I.
Anyway, a few hours later I'd gone back in there and swapped it over for the right one. They were very apologetic, but as I said at the time, it isn't every week I get two major camera upgrades!
Thankfully, the Mark II's viewfinder is considerably better than the Mark I's. It's still awful, but a reasonably usable sort of awful. It's a very impressive camera and I'm sure it will serve me well, though nothing like as nice to use as a real one with a proper viewfinder. And now the on-line manuals make more sense!

(PS: Just in case you thought otherwise, we are talking about an honest mistake made by a decent assistant in a long-established, reputable shop. They fixed it all up straight away, and poor (name redacted) is probably still getting joshed about it by his workmates.)

 

[Digirame]

I'm using a R8 and RP. I still use my DSLR cameras too. I still like the OVF better than the EVF, especially for air shows. To make the R8 and RP easy to use, I customized one or more of the buttons. Also I'm switching from the LCD to the EVF viewfinder manually with a button (instead of it being done automatically with that eye sensor). I'm not sure if your R5 Mark II is similar. I'm just letting you know that you probably have to keep working on it, to figure out better ways to use it. I also use the green menu, where I have HDR and focus stacked & bracketed functions ready to access quickly...plus a few other things.

Hopefully the folks here will be able to help you navigate through this, so in time you'll better be able to use your camera. Congratulation on your new R5 Mark II.

 

[R2D2]

So I turn the camera around looking to see where it says "Mark II" on the body. I can't find "Mark II" anywhere. Look at the box it came in.
Yep - the chap at the shop had charged me for an R5 II, and invoiced me for an R5 II, but the camera he handed me was an R5 Mark I.

Wow, that would really goof a person up!!!

Anyway, a few hours later I'd gone back in there and swapped it over for the right one. They were very apologetic, but as I said at the time, it isn't every week I get two major camera upgrades!
Thankfully, the Mark II's viewfinder is considerably better than the Mark I's. It's still awful, but a reasonably usable sort of awful. It's a very impressive camera and I'm sure it will serve me well, though nothing like as nice to use as a real one with a proper viewfinder. And now the on-line manuals make more sense!

Don't fret. The transition to mirrorless is indeed TOUGH, but it helps to keep an open mind and work your way through each "issue." We've all been through the process!

As far as the viewfinder is concerned, it helps to set the "Display frame rate set" to "FPS"

Set "High speed display"

You can also choose "Blackout-free display"

And disable "Power Saving"

Shoot using Electronic Shutter for the smoothest view in the viewfinder when shooting bursts. This is a biggie.

Shoot H+ bursts when shooting fast action (you can set the framerate for all of your burst rates)

Pre-capture has proven to be a huge boon for me.

I have my AF settings listed in a previous thread here...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4779162

(that includes my dual back button AF settings too)

Work your way through the camera's settings. Start by setting up everything in your most used Exposure Mode (mine is full Manual). Then copy those settings to each of the threee Custom Modes. This will save you time and effort going back and forth. Set your Custom Modes to "Auto Update" at least at first so you don't have to manually save each time you make a change.

I like to then program the M-Fn button (right next to the shutter button) to scroll through the Custom Modes. It's very fast to switch from a "still subject" mode (my C1) to say a "BIF" mode (my C2). I program C3 to be a slow(er) shutter low light mode (like subjects in the shade).

The R5ii is an incredibly capable camera with a lot of little nuances. Don't get frustrated. And you can always come back here for help! :-D

Happy shooting!

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 

[Zeee]

The R was awful for certain things but after getting it my 7D2 never came out of the bag. AF was too much fun. On sensor AF so more dealing with that mirror assembly AF drift and most importantly no MFA. I hated MFA.

I had both the 5D4 and 7D2. I sold the 5D4 for the R. Same sensor so I liked that. Today I’d give up photography if I had to go back to a DSLR.

 

[John Crowe]

Thankfully they believed you. Not camera stores, but I have run into sellers who don't go by "the customer is always right" matra.

Canon has not released an RF body to tempt me yet, so I find your comments about the evf very entertaining. RF enthusiasts tend to push the hyperbole.

Do let us know how you make out.

 

[Tannin]

Cheers John. In real life, the world is populated by photographers using a mix of SLRs and mirrorless bodies. (Not to mention the odd rangefinder or P&S.)

Here on DPR, which is and always has been a community of unrepentant gear-heads (I'm not complaining, it takes one to know one), discussion and enthusiasm has always been focussed on the new and different. Reading DPR, you'd think that 98% of all photographers were mirrorless fans. If something else new comes along next week, that will become the new DPR darling.

Me, I'm very much a gear-head, and I used to buy almost every new higher-end camera Canon made - 20D, 40D, 50D, 7D, 7D II, 1D III, 1D IV, 5D II, 5D IV, 5DS, 5DS R - but Canon hasn't produced anything nice enough to tempt me for quite a few years now. This new R5 II is very much an exception, and I'm buying it because I need it for a particular job, not because I want it.

However, there is a silver lining. Over the past 6 years or so I have saved a fortune not buying cameras because Canon stopped making nice new ones.

(And I've spent all that money I saved, plus maybe a bit more, buying a lovely little collection of fine acoustic guitars. ) Canon's loss has been a gain to Maton, Furch, Brook, Guild, Cole Clark, and several others.

 

[R2D2]

Cheers John. In real life, the world is populated by photographers using a mix of SLRs and mirrorless bodies. (Not to mention the odd rangefinder or P&S.)

Here on DPR, which is and always has been a community of unrepentant gear-heads (I'm not complaining, it takes one to know one), discussion and enthusiasm has always been focussed on the new and different. Reading DPR, you'd think that 98% of all photographers were mirrorless fans. If something else new comes along next week, that will become the new DPR darling.

Me, I'm very much a gear-head, and I used to buy almost every new higher-end camera Canon made - 20D, 40D, 50D, 7D, 7D II, 1D III, 1D IV, 5D II, 5D IV, 5DS, 5DS R - but Canon hasn't produced anything nice enough to tempt me for quite a few years now. This new R5 II is very much an exception, and I'm buying it because I need it for a particular job, not because I want it.

However, there is a silver lining. Over the past 6 years or so I have saved a fortune not buying cameras because Canon stopped making nice new ones.

(And I've spent all that money I saved, plus maybe a bit more, buying a lovely little collection of fine acoustic guitars. ) Canon's loss has been a gain to Maton, Furch, Brook, Guild, Cole Clark, and several others.

My view is that some people haven't made the paradigm shift yet (and yet others may never!). :-D

R2

 

[Zeee]

Thankfully they believed you. Not camera stores, but I have run into sellers who don't go by "the customer is always right" matra.

Canon has not released an RF body to tempt me yet, so I find your comments about the evf very entertaining. RF enthusiasts tend to push the hyperbole.

I miss the OVF for some reasons but one thing about the EVF that would be hard to give up is Exposure Simulation.

Do let us know how you make out.

 

[Zeee]

Cheers John. In real life, the world is populated by photographers using a mix of SLRs and mirrorless bodies. (Not to mention the odd rangefinder or P&S.)

There are. I'm just past that. Far too gone for me in the joy I have using ML.

Here on DPR, which is and always has been a community of unrepentant gear-heads (I'm not complaining, it takes one to know one), discussion and enthusiasm has always been focussed on the new and different. Reading DPR, you'd think that 98% of all photographers were mirrorless fans. If something else new comes along next week, that will become the new DPR darling.

Why not. This is a gear forum. Lot's of other site that barely discuss gear.

Me, I'm very much a gear-head, and I used to buy almost every new higher-end camera Canon made - 20D, 40D, 50D, 7D, 7D II, 1D III, 1D IV, 5D II, 5D IV, 5DS, 5DS R - but Canon hasn't produced anything nice enough to tempt me for quite a few years now. This new R5 II is very much an exception, and I'm buying it because I need it for a particular job, not because I want it.

I've had all our these from the 20D and 5D and up. I bought them because it is part of the hobby and I felt like it.

However, there is a silver lining. Over the past 6 years or so I have saved a fortune not buying cameras because Canon stopped making nice new ones.

(And I've spent all that money I saved, plus maybe a bit more, buying a lovely little collection of fine acoustic guitars. ) Canon's loss has been a gain to Maton, Furch, Brook, Guild, Cole Clark, and several others.

I love listening to it but buying all of those guitars would a waste to me. However as an avid fisherman for 50 years I calculate fish (I kept) cost me $500 a lb. Boats, trailers, life jackets, tackle, bait, licences and replacing the bottom end of the motor after hitting a rock and so on. It would have cost me less to go to a grocery store.

Unless you are into knitting there aren't very many inexpensive hobbies.

 

[Zeee]

The thing about ML is you have to forget about how you shot using a DSLR. ML is an entirely different creature. While subject and eye detect is amazing it can fail and you need to learn how to "quickly" take control over it instead of the other way around. The algorithms (AI) just keep getting better with FW and new model updates. At times I'm stunned how quickly it will find the eye. A very small bird in pond that would just need far too much cropping it finds it. It may not be the eye but it will find the head. If the system can make out the eye it will switch to it..

When ML first came out Arther Morris out a rather expensive guide. I emailed him to ask a few questions. He told me some people were unhappy and sometimes returning them because it was a whole new ball game. He was hinting about that control I spoke about. I was aware of it so I didn't get it nor did push it. That info was available here, youtube, etc.

Once you master the ML system it's a joy to use.