A different monochrome method

[Jeff Biscuits]

Of course, you would have the sensor mounted in a solid casing that would include contacts to body electronics. This really isn't a far-fetched idea, especially so if you could design precision internal rails to locking mechanism, and some kind of user casing that prevents the sensor from being touched or harshly bumped.

It’s so not far-fetched that it was done over a decade ago.

 

[saltydogstudios]

Wouldn't it be quite the trick if you could design a sensor that allowed you to flip the X-trans or Bayer array out of the way to allow for an actual monochrome sensor underneath?

I think the mechanicals required would be a manufacturing challenge, given the 3-4 um dimensions involved.

Indeed. It would be far more viable to take the Ricoh GXR approach and have interchangeable sensor units.

Agreed, but I'm not fond of the lens-attached-to-sensor concept, as what's left behind it doesn't add up to all that much and the deal gets really expensive fast when buying several lenses.

I meant more like the GXR M-Mount module, which was a sensor plus a mount for a lens. This meant you had a body, a sensor, and a lens, all interchangeable with one another.

Which basically gives you this:

Now, if you could somehow be able to slip an interchangeable sensor into a perfectly registered slot from underneath behind the mount, that would be really something. You could offer various IR versions, as well. Pretty sure you'd have to live without IBIS though (as good photographers had endured for a few centuries until recently).

The GXR M-mount is well underrated. If it were full frame it would get a lot more use from me- and if the manual focusing aids were a bit more up to modern standards.

in my opinion one of the better sensors on the market (at the time).

 

[JNR]

Here is atest of the Q2M vs the 100S.

Helpful to those who primarily are interested in shooting Siemens star charts.

If you are just trolling, then troll away.

Oh no, I've been found out. I admit it! I admit it! I'm a card-carrying member of the secret society - Anti-Siemens Star Charts Association of America (ASSCA) - and now we've been found out! Paranoia Strikes Deep, Into Your Heart It Will Creep. As to the next line, apparently it starts here, actually.

Certainly hope you have a sense of humor... as this is really humorous! Thanks for inspiring me.

 

[Doppler9000]

Here is atest of the Q2M vs the 100S.

Helpful to those who primarily are interested in shooting Siemens star charts.

If you are just trolling, then troll away.

Oh no, I've been found out. I admit it! I admit it! I'm a card-carrying member of the secret society - Anti-Siemens Star Charts Association of America (ASSCA) - and now we've been found out! Paranoia Strikes Deep, Into Your Heart It Will Creep. As to the next line, apparently it starts here, actually.

Certainly hope you have a sense of humor... as this is really humorous!

It would seem your personal definition of “humor” is as idiosyncratic as your definition of “far-fetched”.

Thanks for inspiring me.

Whatever floats your boat!

 

[sir_c]

Calculating back what the original values could have been is just interpolation and applying statistics to image data.

The problem with monochromatic sensor data is that you really don't know what was absorbed.

If your sensor reads a value of 200 out of 256, how does it know it was either caused by a red-only signal of 200, or it was a mix of colors that have the same reading in monochrome?

I have no knowledge here, but my intuition tells me that reconstructing information from color data of neighboring pixels is more likely to give accurate results than when you look at absorption characteristics of silicon. That is because the former is being its guesses on actual sample data. Clever algorithms (aka AI) can check more pixels than just neighbors too and include shape detection and such.

 

[michaeladawson]

Calculating back what the original values could have been is just interpolation and applying statistics to image data.

The problem with monochromatic sensor data is that you really don't know what was absorbed.

If your sensor reads a value of 200 out of 256, how does it know it was either caused by a red-only signal of 200, or it was a mix of colors that have the same reading in monochrome?

I have no knowledge here, but my intuition tells me that reconstructing information from color data of neighboring pixels is more likely to give accurate results than when you look at absorption characteristics of silicon. That is because the former is being its guesses on actual sample data. Clever algorithms (aka AI) can check more pixels than just neighbors too and include shape detection and such.

Yes, I now suspect you are right in that the colors are estimated from the surrounding pixels. So my question would then be whether they are doing anything different from just a standard Bayer demosaic interpolation operation.

They make a big deal about their B&W mode. But then in actuality they simply claim that their B&W process is superior to converting a JPEG to B&W because they have a full monochrome 16-bit raw file. Which is no big deal because as far as I know Fuji, Sony, Nikon, and Canon all do this.

 

[Krummj]

You forget the third main advantage. It doesn't let you shoot in color, or recover a color photo in any way. Some people buy monochrome cameras specifically for this feature (which others view as the main drawback).

 

[Solomon]

I look at images from the monochrom and I'm not impressed. I grew up making greyscale images on film canisters I loaded myself, printed in my own darkroom. I love greyscale images. So every time someone posts them, I look again. But, I'm still not impressed. Perhaps it's my subconscious protecting me from lusting after something I certainly can't afford. But, I really doubt it. I think the Leica group are just the world's best salesmen.

 

[JNR]

I look at images from the monochrom and I'm not impressed. I grew up making greyscale images on film canisters I loaded myself, printed in my own darkroom. I love greyscale images. So every time someone posts them, I look again. But, I'm still not impressed. Perhaps it's my subconscious protecting me from lusting after something I certainly can't afford. But, I really doubt it. I think the Leica group are just the world's best salesmen.

I don't know, the crown probably goes to the Pixii guys who had the temerity to stick in the same APS-c sensor from the X-T4, fashion the body and mount after the Leica rangefinders - and claimed they'd solved the problem of color and monochrome all in one.

At least with Fuji, the Acros profiles are pretty convincing, and you can play around with your color temp and tint to get exactly the look you're after. As for a non-CFA sensor you totally lose that ability (need to use color filters again), but you do gain quite a bit of shadow quality, and you're starting with contrast that allows for amazing gradations.

If Fuji could match the Pentax for pricing (low $2,000s or about $400 above the actually quite impressive DSLR model), I think they'd have a good seller. Then we could all debate whether we miss the smell of D76 and stop bath on our hands and clothing. (I don't, but that isn't saying I'd indulge in a mono body at that price point either.)

 

[michaeladawson]

If Fuji could match the Pentax for pricing (low $2,000s or about $400 above the actually quite impressive DSLR model), I think they'd have a good seller. Then we could all debate whether we miss the smell of D76 and stop bath on our hands and clothing. (I don't, but that isn't saying I'd indulge in a mono body at that price point either.)

I have a compromise going. I don't do chemical prints, so I avoid the D76, stop bath, and fixer trays. But developing B&W film is easy and requires no darkroom. All you need is a changing bag to put the film on the reels. The chemicals are poured directly from the bottle into the tank and back again. Clean enough to do in your kitchen with no mess.

Of course, you still have to scan the negatives. And that can become an expensive and time consuming operation depending on how you choose to do it. But I enjoy it all as a hobby now that I'm retired.

 

[Doppler9000]

I look at images from the monochrom and I'm not impressed. I grew up making greyscale images on film canisters I loaded myself, printed in my own darkroom. I love greyscale images. So every time someone posts them, I look again. But, I'm still not impressed. Perhaps it's my subconscious protecting me from lusting after something I certainly can't afford. But, I really doubt it. I think the Leica group are just the world's best salesmen.

How about these images? Monochrome Sigma fp .