828 (not) hitting the shelfs

[D P O'neil]

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

I've no idea why these pathetic tossers insist on posting up such
feeble trolls ('a friend told me', indeed!), but why oh why do
people respond en masse every time?!

In another current thread you have made over 7 posts of a similar nature, so I guess you have answered your own question?

I'd say there's a good argument for introducing separate volunteer
forum moderators who can weed out this disruptive drivel as soon as
it appears.

But you may also be in danger of being weeded out

What say you guys?
If you really want them to go away you have to learn to control yourself.

Dennis

--
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'

 

[Shutter.]

Hi Harry,

I know Laurence fairly well. No doubt in my mind that what he is saying about the store not selling the 828 is the truth.

Jim

Although I did not name the store specifically, I named the town,
the store's size, and his position. I will not put his name or the
name of the store out there until I clear that with him. If you had
one iota of real curiosity, you would call up the Swiss electronic
telephone book and find it. It is not that hard. Since they are not
open on Monday, I will call him on Tuesday and get permission and
ask him to put up his images.

I really have no curiousity about it. If there's a real store
taking that position it may be interesting if we knew some
specifics. Until such time its a unsubstantiated rumor.

The basic point is that such information is not really pertinent
for the anecdote related. Nevertheless, a couple of people attested
to the fact that I am not a troll nor do I spend my time spreading
rumors.

Never called you a troll

Finally, what surprises me is that you don't recognize that someone
publishing under his own name with a valid e-mail address and
responding to the yowling here is quite different than your usual
troll.

Again I never called you a troll. What "yowling" where you
referring to?

harry

--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act
of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen,
the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you want!
• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Shutter.]

Guys, I don't know BigMouth, but I do know Laurence. It's really not too far-fetched to believe this to be true. I believe it entirely because it came from Laurence, who certainly is a very trustworthy man, IMO.

I think people in the States may consider it hard to believe because Americans generally won't consider the quality of something before they sell it. They'll sell it to make a buck. I respect a shop that won't sell a product that doesn't measure up to it's standards.

Jim

Ok folks,

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you want!
• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Cyber_Shoot]

I think people in the States may consider it hard to believe
because Americans generally won't consider the quality of something
before they sell it. They'll sell it to make a buck. I respect a
shop that won't sell a product that doesn't measure up to it's
standards.

Jim

Ok folks,

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you

want!

• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Shutter.]

I think I've been around here long enough to not be considered a troll.

I think people in the States may consider it hard to believe
because Americans generally won't consider the quality of something
before they sell it. They'll sell it to make a buck. I respect a
shop that won't sell a product that doesn't measure up to it's
standards.

Jim

Ok folks,

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you

want!

• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you want!
• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Paul.R.Lindqvist]

I think people in the States may consider it hard to believe
because Americans generally won't consider the quality of something
before they sell it. They'll sell it to make a buck. I respect a
shop that won't sell a product that doesn't measure up to it's
standards.

Jim

Ok folks,

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you

want!

• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/366

• You're not in third grade anymore. Take as many recesses as you

want!

• Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.

http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

Erm we know for sure u aint a troll sir, whoever says otherwise should check again. And for the love of god drop it already, its true, still i dont see the big fuzz couldnt care less what he sells or not. as long he is happy with his bizz.

Regards
Paul L.
--

 

[jazzman27]

Ok folks,

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

Who am I. Just a guy looking to buy. I own a few digitals for hoby and I am interested in the "828" so I check in onec in a while. I think if you apoligize, that would put an end to this. Why, well although you may ahve ment well, when someone like myself as well as ppl who have purchased a product is being told to look out. It should be Fact and not gossip. I think a friend telling a friend telling a freind is not good information justold fation gossip. If i were to use this as helpfull infromation wich is what I hope this is all about, I would first have to beleave you after beleaving your friend after beleaving the store clerk. Thats too much red tape for me. If the camera didnt have flaws, after going through that much red tape it woukd by the time I hear it.

 

[Spikeman]

I too, can attest to the fact that you are not now, or have even
been, a troll.

Please forgive my over-zealous brethern. I don't see why this is
such a big deal, either way. If a shop decides not to sell
something. That's their choice. What difference does it make, why
they decided not to sell it?

Lot's of people still adhere to that "the only good digitals, are
the ones made by camera companies" adage. So what? Does their
thinking effect the quality of the images we get with our Sony's?

To the rest of the forum,
Laurence knows what he's talking about. He spends most of his
forum time defending a camera(s) that most Dslr elitists, keep
bashing. Does he still use this camera to capture outstanding
shots? You better believe it.

He doesn't care what others say about his photographic tool, of
choice. Neither should we

Just my opinion,
Steve

I agree 100%. Shakespeare wrote "Much ado about nothing" and so is this!

 

[urban75]

In another current thread you have made over 7 posts of a similar
nature, so I guess you have answered your own question?

Not quite. I raised some points at a specific poster, not swallowed a load of guff about an email from some unknown friend about some unknown store supposedly not stocking 828s.

But thanks for your fascinating contribution.

Really worthwhile.

Got any more?

 

[Kevin Ruehle]

I just went to circuit city in NJ and the sales kid advised me not to buy the F828 because the quality was horrible.

I really dont think he new what he was talking about.

I am just amazed at all the bad press this camera is getting.

I have a F717 that I am happy with but would love to upgrade to something better.

I bought a 10D but returned it when I found out they may be replacing it after PMA.

I still think I will end up with an 828.

If I buy a DSLR I really think I will need to spend at least $2500 to get the focal lenth and speed of the 828. I Just cant make up my mind until the PMA show. I may buy the 828 and just compare it to the 717.

I really think you get a lot more for your money with the 828 with some sacrafices/Noise CA and whatever else.

I just want a step up from the 717 and I am not convinced that the 828 does that.

Ok folks,

Just got a mail from a good friend, he went to his friendly local
camera store to check out the 828 and they told him that they
refuse to sell it. After their in-house tests they came to the
conclusion that the quality is just terrible.

 

[f828]

Not actually. I used to work at a smaller camera store, and all
the people there were convinced that the only good manufacturers
are the camera manufacturers. Canon, Nikon, Olympus, and Minolta.
The rest is therefore junk, "especially Sony".

Though I'll admit they never tested a Sony.

sony's cams are all junk except 707, 717 and 828
this is all i know.
--
n/a

 

[Olga Johnson]

I've no idea why these pathetic tossers insist on posting up such
feeble trolls ('a friend told me', indeed!), but why oh why do
people respond en masse every time?!

I'd say there's a good argument for introducing separate volunteer
forum moderators who can weed out this disruptive drivel as soon as
it appears.

What say you guys?

I see nothing feeble about the message here. It doesn't surprise me that a camera shop would choose which camera to sell. You don't know what their profit is and you don't know how much a returned camera would cost them. So if they believe that the camera may be returned to them, choosing to not carry it as part of their stock may be a wise thing for them. It's just a business decision.

Olga

Olga

 

[Harry Behret]

Hey Jim,

My post was in response to georgi's post and my reference to the rumor was referring to bigmouth's initial post. Why Laurence got uptight is known only to him.

Harry
--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

 

[D P O'neil]

In another current thread you have made over 7 posts of a similar
nature, so I guess you have answered your own question?

Not quite. I raised some points at a specific poster, not swallowed
a load of guff about an email from some unknown friend about some
unknown store supposedly not stocking 828s.

But thanks for your fascinating contribution.

Really worthwhile.

Got any more?

--And you have the nerve to call other people "Tossers"!
Dennis
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'

 

[Laurence Matson]

The message in this was perhaps too subtle for those not wanting to hear, and many of you here are responsible for this message, including Phil. It speaks volumes about the on-going, at times erratic, but generally highly useful discussions taking place in these forums.

In my mind, it goes like this:

A shop department head in a remote part of the world becomes an enthusiastic reader of dpreview. In part, this was my doing because we have often chatted about things and discussed problems. His contact with dpreview started when he had a pro customer with a 14n issue; we looked at the images together, and then I suggested we see whether there was something in the Kodak forum on this. The Search engine was working (wonders never cease) and we had a result. He was a very happy new dpreview reader and had a customer with more information than he was getting from Kodak Germany.

When other cameras came out, he read every word of the reviews and checked out the forums occasionally (his mother tongue is German, but he has to be able to read English). Thus when the 828 was announced, reviewed, tested, and discussed, he was lurking, listening and reading. He got a mixed picture, which should not surprise anyone. Great images here; Phil's images (which he tore apart) and review; these discussions.

When his shipment came in, the first thing he wanted to do was form his own opinion (what a surprise), since he expected this one to be a big seller. (My guess he sells around 4-5 thousand cameras a year from simple pray&shoot to 14n and 1Ds; he does not carry the SD10 but has our galleries bookmarked.) He was appalled by his first shots. He retook them, took an entire set at regular focal-length intervals, and then randoms. All of them showed extraordinary amounts of CA and PF for the focal length. He then went back to Phil's reviews and compared the 828 with the 300D, the camera most mentioned as the 828's direct competitor. When he found noise levels there substantially higher in the 828 than in the 300D, he realized the problem.

He is not one to just dismiss this stuff. This is a shop where people actually take time to talk to each other. We spent about 30 minutes talking about these issues. What we did not do and what I urged his to do was to print out some of this stuff on his Epson 2100, since I said users had found these problems less apparent in print. He will obviously talk to Sony Switzerland, since they will want to know why the entire shipment came back save one camera. This is a small country and people work with each other.

If this is trolling - no matter how it started - then I'm sorry. There are a zillion cameras out there and people should get and use what they want. I happen to have one that has been the object of a little bashing, but that has not stopped me from using it or finding good things about it. BigMouth is also not a troll. He was passing on something he heard, which should be important here.

--
Laurence

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

Laurence

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)

 

[Harry Behret]

Laurence,

I'm sorry but the tale of one camera store in Switzerland deciding not to carry the 828 has little impact for me. I'm more interested in hearing the experiences of folks who actually use the camera. If you have some insights to share from your perspective thats great also.

I think that a lot of the adverse reaction to this thread was due to the way it was started. Bigmouth has been on DPR for a few days now and all I've seen of him/her is this post and some other negative posts directed towards Yehuda. He/she may be a fine person but I can't tell from his/hers contributions so far. The initial post appears to have as its sole purpose the intent to stir folks up. Please note that I said "appears".

Harry
--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

 

[jonwilly]

Hi Harry

This store is obviously in private hands and the owner has had the spirit of his convictions to implement a restriction as regards the sale of the F828 (ALLEGEDLY) But at the same time retailing most of the other SONY cameras

During the course of retailing power tools and equipment I refused also to sell certain manufactures models due to poor reliability or internal build quality. yet still promote their other models.

My membership and access to STF has only been since Dec03 but i found an amount of chat not associated at all with camera related issues and i commented as such suggesting there was possibly room for something like the current STF but at least another one SONY forum for unrelated camera issues, yes i know there are other areas such as open talk etc but this particular SONY area appears to enjoy an excessive number of participants and is in danger of sinking under its own success, personally my time is limited and i cannot always keep up with the fast pace as regards current threads as they scroll quickly by onto page 1-2-3 and when i get back to a relavent topic i end up on a guilt trip at possibly being accused of dredging up old news if i respond to it.

I am guilty of posting a non camera topic this was in response to a King size contributor (COMPLIMENT) suggesting "lighten up" & "have fun" this when STF was getting a little abrasive, I believe he has your ear but somewere i may have rubbed him up the wrong way ??

My apologies for going off topic.

Yes life is to short to drink bad wine, so use it for cooking and open another.

Jon

I'm sorry but the tale of one camera store in Switzerland deciding
not to carry the 828 has little impact for me. I'm more interested
in hearing the experiences of folks who actually use the camera. If
you have some insights to share from your perspective thats great
also.

I think that a lot of the adverse reaction to this thread was due
to the way it was started. Bigmouth has been on DPR for a few days
now and all I've seen of him/her is this post and some other
negative posts directed towards Yehuda. He/she may be a fine person
but I can't tell from his/hers contributions so far. The initial
post appears to have as its sole purpose the intent to stir folks
up. Please note that I said "appears".

Harry
--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act
of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen,
the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

 

[Harry Behret]

jon,

This store is obviously in private hands and the owner has had the
spirit of his convictions to implement a restriction as regards the
sale of the F828 (ALLEGEDLY) But at the same time retailing most of
the other SONY cameras

No problem at all.

My membership and access to STF has only been since Dec03 but i
found an amount of chat not associated at all with camera related
issues and i commented as such suggesting there was possibly room
for something like the current STF but at least another one SONY
forum for unrelated camera issues, yes i know there are other areas
such as open talk etc but this particular SONY area appears to
enjoy an excessive number of participants and is in danger of
sinking under its own success, personally my time is limited and i
cannot always keep up with the fast pace as regards current threads
as they scroll quickly by onto page 1-2-3 and when i get back to a
relavent topic i end up on a guilt trip at possibly being accused
of dredging up old news if i respond to it.

You have to learn how pick and choose which threads are interesting to you. Right now we are in a very active mode things should calm down in a short while. I usually will go over the last 3-4 pages myself when I've been off the board for a while. Just hop in if you see something that interests you.

I am guilty of posting a non camera topic this was in response to a
King size contributor (COMPLIMENT) suggesting "lighten up" & "have
fun" this when STF was getting a little abrasive, I believe he has
your ear but somewere i may have rubbed him up the wrong way ??

Sooner or later we all rub someone the "wrong way". It can't be helped here. Just keep contributing & keep your sense of humor and things will usually work themselves out.

Harry
--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

 

[jonwilly]

This store is obviously in private hands and the owner has had the
spirit of his convictions to implement a restriction as regards the
sale of the F828 (ALLEGEDLY) But at the same time retailing most of
the other SONY cameras

No problem at all.

My membership and access to STF has only been since Dec03 but i
found an amount of chat not associated at all with camera related
issues and i commented as such suggesting there was possibly room
for something like the current STF but at least another one SONY
forum for unrelated camera issues, yes i know there are other areas
such as open talk etc but this particular SONY area appears to
enjoy an excessive number of participants and is in danger of
sinking under its own success, personally my time is limited and i
cannot always keep up with the fast pace as regards current threads
as they scroll quickly by onto page 1-2-3 and when i get back to a
relavent topic i end up on a guilt trip at possibly being accused
of dredging up old news if i respond to it.

You have to learn how pick and choose which threads are interesting
to you. Right now we are in a very active mode things should calm
down in a short while. I usually will go over the last 3-4 pages
myself when I've been off the board for a while. Just hop in if you
see something that interests you.

I am guilty of posting a non camera topic this was in response to a
King size contributor (COMPLIMENT) suggesting "lighten up" & "have
fun" this when STF was getting a little abrasive, I believe he has
your ear but somewere i may have rubbed him up the wrong way ??

Sooner or later we all rub someone the "wrong way". It can't be
helped here. Just keep contributing & keep your sense of humor and
things will usually work themselves out.

Harry
--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act
of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen,
the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams