5 models 3 years same sensor !

[ekaton]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

It`s the lenses, the lenses..... Last week I added the 90mm to my stable and that thing is optically so excellent that my humble XT10 feels as if it got a MP boost under the hood. Feels now at least like a 20MP sensor ;-)

Please.

The XF 90 is $1k, the Zeiss-Zeiss Batis 85 OIS is $1.2k.

You think the XF90 can pump out better microcontrast and sharpness than the Zeiss paired with a 24mp Sony APS-C sensor?

 

[psilocibo]

I though Fuji was using Sony's sensors all the time and only the distribution array (xtrans) was actually developed by them...

 

[mg_k]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

It`s the lenses, the lenses..... Last week I added the 90mm to my stable and that thing is optically so excellent that my humble XT10 feels as if it got a MP boost under the hood. Feels now at least like a 20MP sensor ;-)

Please.

The XF 90 is $1k, the Zeiss-Zeiss Batis 85 OIS is $1.2k.

You think the XF90 can pump out better microcontrast and sharpness than the Zeiss paired with a 24mp Sony APS-C sensor?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photography

I was never overly impressed with the 24MP Sony sensor with AA filter. The 36MP one in the A7r and now the new 42MP chip in the A/rII are another story But in most direct comparisons between a Fuji X trans sensor and a Sony 24MP FF file the lenses will be more important than the sensor.

You aren't overly impressed is one thing, but fact is it still produces better sharpness, has more mp and captures more fine details in the raw files than Fuji.

And the Zeiss lens easily blows the XF90 out of the water.

Trust me I was real close of purchasing the XF90 since I absolutely love my XF56, but after reconsidering the whole situation as a system I decided Fuji system isn't the one in the long run.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photography

 

[Christof21]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

I totally agree with you.

There is more than this... There is no IBIS, no real big improvement. Fuji is not innovative, the x-trans is a non innovation. Fuji just uses a Sony sensor and people waiting for an organic sensor can wait for eternity !

I follow Fuji rumors and Sony rumors... This is night and day. Of course, Fuji is not as big as Sony but I would not be surprised if many Fuji users switch to the Sony FF system. Sony is a good investment for the future.

It is time for Fuji to wake up.

 

[forpetessake]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

Fuji nowadays resembles Canon of yesterday, they were also milking the same 18MP sensor in countless models and fell quite behind the other players on the market.

I guess the old 16MP APS-C Sony sensors are cheap nowadays, because the technology is polished and demand is low (who else apart from Fuji buying them?) So Fuji will keep using them as long as people are buying their cameras.

But I believe the competition from Sony FF and APS-C cameras is heating and can force Fuji to move to the newer sensors or lose customers. Had Fuji used bayer CFA as everybody else, the transition would have been painless, but they created an obstacle for themselves with that weird x-trans CFA, and, as practice showed, for no good reason.

 

[Christof21]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

Fuji nowadays resembles Canon of yesterday, they were also milking the same 18MP sensor in countless models and fell quite behind the other players on the market.

I guess the old 16MP APS-C Sony sensors are cheap nowadays, because the technology is polished and demand is low (who else apart from Fuji buying them?) So Fuji will keep using them as long as people are buying their cameras.

But I believe the competition from Sony FF and APS-C cameras is heating and can force Fuji to move to the newer sensors or lose customers. Had Fuji used bayer CFA as everybody else, the transition would have been painless, but they created an obstacle for themselves with that weird x-trans CFA, and, as practice showed, for no good reason.

The X-Pro2 will certainly have the Sony A6000 sensor. Not the latest sensor (Sony will certainly launch a new camera soon), Fuji had always the previous generation of Sony sensor.

But for me this is a minimum update. Sony is better in many areas now, they have IBIS for instance, lenses which are amoung the best lenses, and their system is compatible with Canon lenses for instance (with AF !) Even auto-iso is better now with Sony (I regret that Fuji did not improve with firmware update !!)

 

[mg_k]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

Fuji nowadays resembles Canon of yesterday, they were also milking the same 18MP sensor in countless models and fell quite behind the other players on the market.

I guess the old 16MP APS-C Sony sensors are cheap nowadays, because the technology is polished and demand is low (who else apart from Fuji buying them?) So Fuji will keep using them as long as people are buying their cameras.

But I believe the competition from Sony FF and APS-C cameras is heating and can force Fuji to move to the newer sensors or lose customers. Had Fuji used bayer CFA as everybody else, the transition would have been painless, but they created an obstacle for themselves with that weird x-trans CFA, and, as practice showed, for no good reason.

The X-Pro2 will certainly have the Sony A6000 sensor. Not the latest sensor (Sony will certainly launch a new camera soon), Fuji had always the previous generation of Sony sensor.

But for me this is a minimum update. Sony is better in many areas now, they have IBIS for instance, lenses which are amoung the best lenses, and their system is compatible with Canon lenses for instance (with AF !) Even auto-iso is better now with Sony (I regret that Fuji did not improve with firmware update !!)

And one can almost certainly bet their life saving that the new a7000 will have even better af in terms of even faster fps, larger buffer, more pdaf points (possibly covers the whole sensor), ibis and 4k video.

What about Fuji? An outdated Sony sensor, no ibis or 4k, and still has worse AF than Sony's last year offering, priced similar to A7II.....
--

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[Christof21]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

Fuji nowadays resembles Canon of yesterday, they were also milking the same 18MP sensor in countless models and fell quite behind the other players on the market.

I guess the old 16MP APS-C Sony sensors are cheap nowadays, because the technology is polished and demand is low (who else apart from Fuji buying them?) So Fuji will keep using them as long as people are buying their cameras.

But I believe the competition from Sony FF and APS-C cameras is heating and can force Fuji to move to the newer sensors or lose customers. Had Fuji used bayer CFA as everybody else, the transition would have been painless, but they created an obstacle for themselves with that weird x-trans CFA, and, as practice showed, for no good reason.

The X-Pro2 will certainly have the Sony A6000 sensor. Not the latest sensor (Sony will certainly launch a new camera soon), Fuji had always the previous generation of Sony sensor.

But for me this is a minimum update. Sony is better in many areas now, they have IBIS for instance, lenses which are amoung the best lenses, and their system is compatible with Canon lenses for instance (with AF !) Even auto-iso is better now with Sony (I regret that Fuji did not improve with firmware update !!)

And one can almost certainly bet their life saving that the new a7000 will have even better af in terms of even faster fps, larger buffer, more pdaf points (possibly covers the whole sensor), ibis and 4k video.

Not so sure... I wonder if Sony wants to really improve their APS-C cameras. They focus on FF.

They want people to move to FF.

What about Fuji? An outdated Sony sensor, no ibis or 4k, and still has worse AF than Sony's last year offering, priced similar to A7II.....

But the chance for Fuji is that Sony does not focus on APS-C. Hopefully, they did not develop good APS-C lenses though they proove with FF that they can build stunning lenses.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photography

 

[57LowRider]

Fuji is not perfect, but it is starting to get onto my wick, this constant bagging of an otherwise excellent system.

Own up, deeds, it's awful, and almost unusable without a photography degree

Meanwhile, I'm seriously considering buying an Instax printer to pair with my X-T1 and shooting portraits / groups, with the proviso that I Get It Right enough that I only use the in-cam tools for PP. Strangely, the IQ of the camera hasn't degraded over time, so it might be worth the investment for fun and thrill.

 

[DocetLector]

It`s really nice to have a couple of Sony fanboys around - so I don`t need to visit the Sony forum to know what`s going on there!

 

[DocetLector]

Reading the first sentence of the OP I get the impression he wants a new sensor just for the sake of getting a new sensor. " I want a new toy because I´ve played long enough with the old one !" If somebody thinks that way he is certainly better off with Sony. But thinking about photography - well that´s a different story.

 

[DocetLector]

""And the Zeiss lens easily blows the XF90 out of the water" - you are talking nonsense (again). If that is your own experience just show 2 pictures for comparisation - if not just read a few reviews and you will learn that the Zeiss Batis 1.8/85 is excellent - same with Fuji XF90! (The Fuji lens gets even better scores at some reviews)

 

[Haikoman]

I don't see what the problem is here.

 

[illumidata]

DPR's own comparison shots tell me the status quo is unchanged in 3 years.

In the mirrorless space, you can trade detail for noise. If you want a genuine sensor improvement you either wait or switch to DSLR.

This isn't even a worse case scenario. Anyone shooting an available light portrait would encounter these results.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...1&x=0.2968337730870712&y=-0.12632497897785674

 

[DarnGoodPhotos]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

New APSC sensor next year.

How do you know they haven't paid off their R&D costs?

 

[Dick Barbour]

Otto, you are exaggerating: he never mentioned the cave! Nothing wrong with some friendly banter - if that's what you had in mind??

3-year old cameras are (some examples maybe??):

Leica M240

Canon 6D

Canon 1D C

Canon 5DIII

Nikon D800E

Nikon D4

source: dpreview

Hardly comparable to the D1 you mentioned - or the Canon 30D (don't think they ever made a D30?)

Deed

Not exactly appropriate for this discussion, but yes, Canon did make a D30, in the year 2000. It was the first really affordable prosumer DSLR and had a 3MP CMOS sensor for a retail price of around $3,000. I didn't have one but did have its successor the D60 with a whopping 6MP and access to a ton of great Canon glass. I still look back at some of my photos from the D60, and remember what a great feeling it was to have digital images that I could process and print myself, that surpassed anything I had ever been able to do with film. So maybe it is appropriate to the current discussion: Look how far we have come since then, or maybe how far we haven't come as far as the ability to make photographs that please us is concerned.

Just for nostalgia's sake, here's one of my first raw files from the D60, taken in 2002 (albeit processed with ACR and PS CC2015):


Canon D60 from raw file, Nov. 2002

****

 

[DarnGoodPhotos]

DPR's own comparison shots tell me the status quo is unchanged in 3 years.

In the mirrorless space, you can trade detail for noise. If you want a genuine sensor improvement you either wait or switch to DSLR.

This isn't even a worse case scenario. Anyone shooting an available light portrait would encounter these results.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...1&x=0.2968337730870712&y=-0.12632497897785674

Check out the difference if you switch to the Sony A7S.

--
www.darngoodphotos.com

 

[AlexRuiz]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

Have a look around at what competent photographers are able to do with that 3 year old sensor.

Look at your work. If you are not satisfied with it, I guarantee you it's not the camera.

 

[DarnGoodPhotos]

Fuji has been milking a same cow, it begins to get stale regardless how good it is.

It's due time for new sensor.

Can Fuji sell enough cameras to pay-off the investment?

Not sure if I am an investor, especially with what Sony is doing with their A7 series.

Have a look around at what competent photographers are able to do with that 3 year old sensor.

Look at your work. If you are not satisfied with it, I guarantee you it's not the camera.

When shooting ambient light at night, I guarantee that no increase in my skill can give me IS0800 noise at ISO6400.

I know that the A7S has fewer and therefore larger "pixels" not he sensor, but just look at the high-ISO improvement.



--
www.darngoodphotos.com

 

[Les Lammers]

Hopefully Fuji introduces a new 24MP sensor with the X-Pro2

I think that's what the OP said.

and if the X-Pro2 doesn't have a new sensor, who cares. This one is very, very good and with what they're claiming will be an improved EXR-III processor (with better DR and better high ISO rendering) and the technology of the X100T and X-T1/X-T10 combined this will be quite a formidable piece of gear even without a higher MP sensor. The only people who are that hung up on the MP war are the measurebators who pixel peep every image to death on their computer but never print anything for display. That's a big difference. If Fuji doesn't release a new sensor until the organic sensor with Panasonic is ready it wouldn't be that big a deal.

Glad Fuji has blind fanboy like you, you're exactly the reason why they will keep milking and not being competitive. Thank YOU!
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photography

I too am in the if ain't broke don't fix it group. Will more MP's make better images for you?