20D a real problem with it and other DSLRs

I recently have been seeing a woman exclusively. Predictably, she has become the subject of many of my pictures. She keeps telling me how good they are, and I keep rebuking her. Her family keeps asking for copies. Of course if they are printed out they are no larger than 5 x7. If e-mailed, they are resized for people who mostly freak out when the nose and lower eye lids take up the entire computer monitor. 100% is great for USM and other "tricks." Our friends think we are anal pains in the a$$e$ when we fret about "our mistakes.
--
Well behaved women rarely make history
 
Hi,

I am the first to admit the camera is light years smarter than I am. I love reading this forum, there is mountains of information to be learned. ( I take notes..especially from you Bill) What is difficult is the constant barrage of lens issues. I own some of these lenses. It adds one more variable to this newbie brain...what if my lenses are bad?? That is a scarey thought to have spent this kind of money and have them be defective. So, instead of taking real life photos, I am taking pictures of lens charts and the side of lens boxes driving myself crazy.

My conclusion is that my lenses do have some of the same issues as others, but I doubt I will use my Tamron 28-75 wide open at 28mm anytime soon. I love this lens, if it becomes a problem I will deal with it down the road. For now, I need to just to go take pictures and learn how to better use this great technology.
Debbie

'critiques are welcome..and needed.'
 
and really show up lens problems out near the edges...we never see with are 1.6 crop bodies.

I have heard if your technique isn't flawless you can be a very unhappy camper.

Other than at trade shows and in the shop I never really played with one. Then I have never done more than take bad snap shots of stuff. It might be fun to rent one for a weekend.

Or maybe that would be a bad thing for my budget and married life. (Note to self remember to be happy with what you have)
--
Bill
Taking It One Day At a Time



http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.' Unknown
'Every man dies; but, not every man lives' Braveheart
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't' Little Big Man
 
The difficulty level is the real allure for me. My "keeper" rate is starting to climb as I become more accustomed to the 20D. There are remarkably few "great" photos that I've taken. A few more "good" ones and whole bunch of "blah" ones. Thousands upon thousands and still cannot blame the equipment.

I do like the "brutally" honest aspect of this sport. I don't know of any better way to plow through those "walls" of learning than to shoot, shoot, and then shoot some more. Eat some crow now and then along with some humble pie.

I think some have this strange notion that now that they've invested all of this money, auto-magically they've somehow short-cutted the "Photography" part of the learning process. In my experience, there are no short-cuts. Thousands of dollars can never replace good solid technique. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a sharp knife than a dull one. Equipment does matter, but that's just the beginning.
--
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI
http://www.kbfoto.com
 
I do like the "brutally" honest aspect of this sport. I don't know
of any better way to plow through those "walls" of learning than to
shoot, shoot, and then shoot some more. Eat some crow now and then
along with some humble pie.
Really we need to push, experiment and try new things to get better. For sure we need to not worry about "sucking".
--
Bill
Taking It One Day At a Time



http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.' Unknown
'Every man dies; but, not every man lives' Braveheart
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't' Little Big Man
 
LOL - I have nothing else to add.... at least for the moment :)
--
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI
http://www.kbfoto.com
 
I can't agree more with what you said!

An Olympus Huh? I have an OM1, OMF, and a Pen-F All very good cameras! Some of my best pictures came from the OM1.

Anyways, I would like to add that when my Dad upgraded to the Canon 10D, He let all of his skills slide thinking the digital camera will do everything! You know, it's digital. Well, the first 1000+ pictures were crappy! And of course it's always the camera fault. He still uses it as a P&S mainly and it takes nice pictures, but he's still blames the camera for bad pictures. Now that I have a 20D, I'm forcing myself to compose almost every shot in full manual mode just to up my skills!

Thanks for the truth, it says that I'm not alone out there! (I'm not incompetent!!!!).

-BD
 
Many of you have probably alrerady read this, but check out what Alex Majoli has to say about digital off of Rob Galbraith:

"Digital, you can see everything," he says. "I used to try to catch as much detail in the blacks as I can, and now I can see everything. It's more than I need, so I try to go back to what I used to see in the past. It's wrong, psychologically. Digital is something different than film, but I try to go back to the idea of what film could do. Film is more black. I need the blacks."

It doesn't lie, as film seems to have done in the past.

Fortunately, it helps us find weaknesses we never knew were there, and for the most part, improves our skills. If only more people could see this...

What a great post.
--
Learning. Day by day. How exciting.
 
From what I've read here, and experienced myself, Canon should put this in the manual somewhere after 'install the battery', but before 'press the shutter'. It would probably save Canon a lot of tech support money and time. With my film Rebel I was taking what I thought were really good shots. When I got my 20D I so excited about my first few shots, and when I saw them I was really dissappointed. They were absolute junk. At the time I knew nothing about sharpening / USM, (now I know next to nothing, which is a small step up). I was considering sending it back but I started reading here. After reading quite a few posts here I was sure I should send it back. Then I read some more and held onto it and kept on practicing. I've had the camera for a few months now and still am not getting what I would like to, but I am seeing some progress. I do appreciate the kind folk on here who post helpful tips and posts such as this one. I recently got a Feisol CF monopod and tripod, and a new Speedlite 580EX so we'll see how much those help.
 
Understanding how Canon ETTL works is a huge help when taking flash photos; which can be hugely frustrating until the "Light" goes on.
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

Big hint here...shot with the camera in manual mode. Dial in an aperture that will give you the DOF wanted and then a reasonable shutter speed. I also like 400ISO with the flash (the flash doesn't have to work as hard and seems to recycle quicker)
--
Bill
Taking It One Day At a Time



http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.' Unknown
'Every man dies; but, not every man lives' Braveheart
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't' Little Big Man
 
About a year ago I started entering contests at digitalphotocontest.com. My standards and self-criticism were raised to unheard-of levels. They continued to increase as I entered at bestfoto.com, shutterbugs.biz, photoshowdown.com, digitalphotochat.com, steves-digicams.com, digitalimagecafe.com, and betterphoto.com. I won POTD at each of these sites over the year and even got a few monthly prizes. What I found was that I had to continually push my "vision", technique, and post-processing to compete. It taught me a lot. It also forced me to the point where my Nikon 5700 was limiting what I could accomplish, so I bought a 20D in September, which has been great for me.

On the downside, I can't flip through a magazine or advertisement now without unconsciously critiquing all the photos I see. It never ceases to amaze me how many photos printed in photography magazines would NEVER win at a POTD site. Blown highlights, flat tonal range, misplaced DOF, tilted horizons, you name it, I see it looking through these mags.

In a way, it has left me a bit jaded, so I took a few months off from the contest thing. I've just gotten back into it this week, and I've decided I'm only going to enter at 2 sites, Digital Image Cafe and Betterphoto as well as upload to stock sites (talking about stock sites got me banned for some reason as Todd Art, so I'm not going to discuss those) I'm trying to be more relaxed about the whole thing and just enjoy the process and maybe make a little money off it on the side.

--
M_Todd_M

Feel free to view my paintings and photos at
http://www.muskopf.org
and
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/gallery.asp?memberID=84404
 
I have done some of the POTD contest and they are fun. BUT...notice the big but here...But some are ways for those running the contest to build stock photo portfolios. If you read the agreement you sometimes find that all images submitted become the property of the people running the contests to do with what they want.

ALWAY ALWAYS read the rules and the user terms of agreement!!!

If the people running the contest end up owning the rights to the photo I would suggest not entering unless you are willing to give your rights away for free.

BTW watch for this if you submit unsolicited photos to newspapers and or TV news services. Many of them also have things if you dig through the small print that state any image submitted to them becomes there property to do with what they want. So if you get that shot of Tom Cruise next week making out with somebody other than Katy...don't just send it to the Enquirer. Negotiate that $100K deal first.
--
Bill
Taking It One Day At a Time



http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.' Unknown
'Every man dies; but, not every man lives' Braveheart
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't' Little Big Man
 
I agree with you. I went through the process you described when I got my 300D - it tooks months to get used to it. However, the 20D I have didn't work as well (with my 24-70L and 70-200 f4L) - Canon fixed it and it now works very well. So, how is this explained? How come I see similar problems and they are dismissed as user error?

IMHO, people experienced with a DSLR who think that have a problem should do two things:

1) Do not post a description of the problem here because it won't help.
2) Send the camera to Canon for calibration.
 
I agree. I and others were finding our winners from one site were being "borrowed" by Korean, Chinese, and Mexican web sites also. They would even say "these are todays winners from xxxxxcontest.com". Interesting.

Also, almost all the local contests run by parks departments, camera stores, newspapers, and TV stations all give all the rights to the photos to those entities, which is why I don't enter.

I'm pretty comfortable with Betterphoto and Digital Image Cafe. They both have clauses as far as they can use winning photos to promote their sites, but not anything unreasonable.

You know, I'll probably get banned again now that I've "promoted" specific contest sites. Silly.

--
M_Todd_M

Feel free to view my paintings and photos at
http://www.muskopf.org
and
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/gallery.asp?memberID=84404
 
First, like everything made at times there will be a dud. Canon cameras and lens are no exception.

I got a DOA EF 135mm f/2.8 Soft Focus once. First click of the shutter and the aperture blades stuck shut. I returned it; no big deal.
I agree with you. I went through the process you described when I
got my 300D - it tooks months to get used to it. However, the 20D I
have didn't work as well (with my 24-70L and 70-200 f4L) - Canon
fixed it and it now works very well. So, how is this explained? How
come I see similar problems and they are dismissed as user error?
They are dismissed as user errors because so often that is exactly what they are. How often do we see post here from somebody complaining about "soft images" that if they actually post the image and EXIF data you find the shutter speed is very low and they are handholding. Well DUH you need to up your shutter speed it wasn't the cameras fault. How often do we see the post about my camera back focus. They show an image of a subject with a bush, fence, brick wall, you name the high contrast object behind the subject that is tack sharp. Well yeah the cameras focus sensor picked up the high contrast subject. We see focus test in low light where the focus clearly is within the depth of focus when viewed at normal size. Of course the image is at 100% and the focus wasn't dead in the middle or better the1/3 back and the person is complaining about focus error. We'll Canon's specs call for within 1 depth of focus with the 1.6 bodies. So the camera is preforming as advertised.

A while ago a guy posted a picture of a rabbit silhouette in a weedy spot surrounded by a chain-link fence. Lens used was a 70-200f/2.8 at f/8 focal length 200mm shutter speed handheld was 1/60 sec. Nothing in the image was sharp...motion blur big time. He is complaining about a focus problem. He been shooting for 30 years and worked as a photographer for a newspaper. His opinion was the 20D was junk. Golly my opinion was he didn't have clue. It wasn't the camera it was the shaky person holding it. Other images posted the focus was where he said it should be but they all showed motion blur... DUH! So yes often the problem is the user.
IMHO, people experienced with a DSLR who think that have a
problem should do two things:
I think you missed the first thing to do.

Rule out and or eliminate possible technique problems. Be honest with yourself. Then get a good high contrast target. Drop the camera and lens on a good tripod (been at this a long time...notice good tripod...some tripods and heads aren't much better than handholding...but that is for another thread) mirror lockup, timer and shutter release. Make sure the distance is reasonable. Take a bunch of photos. OK..key here.. open them up or print them at 8x12 inches this is the size Canon uses to judge focus and is in the specs. Look at it at reasonable distance. Next you are going to need to know the depth of field distance. Did it focus within the DOF? Notice I didn't say in the middle or 1/3 back. If it isn't ( and it isn't focused on the grass, stick, fence or brick wall behind the target) you could have problem. If you do then send it to Canon. From what I have seen here often even if it is within spec they may tighten things up a bit and make it even better.
1) Do not post a description of the problem here because it won't
help.
2) Send the camera to Canon for calibration.
--
Bill
Taking It One Day At a Time



http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.' Unknown
'Every man dies; but, not every man lives' Braveheart
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't' Little Big Man
 
You have mirrored my own experience.

How many thousands of camera and lens returns and exchanges could Canon avert by putting this in the manual and calling it "READ THIS FIRST".

--
Gary Coombs, W9VJ
http://GaryCoombs.com
My Profile contains my Equipment List

A good photograph is knowing where to stand. -Ansel Adams
 

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