2 x SpeedLite problem

[foxikk]

I think that should be simple and easy but it wasn't...

Recently i got 2 speddlite 580 and tried to use them both as a light source.
One on camera and One off camera but it didn't work.
The one on camera was Master (ETTL) and off camera Slave (ETTL)

When I shoot 2 flashes goes off but you can see light only from one on the photo, the one on camera was giving the light.
When I set flashes MANUAL they both give light.

What Im doing wrong. Can I use both flashes in TTL as a light sources or not.

 

[Jim Cassatt]

I think what you are seeing is the preflash from the master. I had that experience and could not figure out what was happening.

Try the whole thing with the master on your camera. Vary the intensity ratio between the two and you should see that everything is working fine.
--
Jim
http://www.pbase.com/jcassatt

 

[GHwell]

Start here

master on camera set to ettl, channel 1, ratio A , flash on. set it in the center of the ratio guide.

off camera set to slave, ettl, channel 1, ratio B flash on. make sure they can see each other with the IR beam. the slave beam must point to the camera flash and you will need at least a 30 degree angle or a small room that bounces the IR beam around

When I say flash on I mean two things. Of course turn on the switch but on the 580 in the mode settings you can turn the flash off it sends out signals and a focus beam but does not actually fire a full flash. It will fire the preflash so you mAy think it is firing THIS MAY BE YOUR PROBLEM

 

[Port Royal Dad]

Here's an awesome site for configuring multiple speed-lights.
http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

It is put together by a guy whose name is Chuck Gardner. He does a superb job of explaining the speed-light set up.

Read about half-way down you'll see step-by-step instructions.

Things to think about:

• Speed-lights have to be on the same Channel, Pick a channel, like 1
• The Speed-lights have to be in different Groups, the Master will default to Group A, make sure the slave is set to Group B
• The Master can be set to trigger the slave only and not contribute to the exposure
• The Master can be set to trigger the slave, but also contribute to the exposure

When both are contributing to the exposure, you can use the A:B ratio to adjust the output for each. It's a way cool wireless setup!!!!

Check your settings

Regards, Mike

--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 

[foxikk]

Here's an awesome site for configuring multiple speed-lights.
http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

It is put together by a guy whose name is Chuck Gardner. He does a superb job of explaining the speed-light set up.

Read about half-way down you'll see step-by-step instructions.

Thanks for the explanation. I tried reading this web site before I had problems. I tried different setting and didn't work. I had different groups. both flashes showing zig zag icon for light and both flashes go off but only 1 - master on camera was giving the light.

Maybe that has to do something with TTL and enough light and maybe that's way second lamp wasn't needed ?!

I tired with st-e2 and then both flashes worked together but never with only 2. I try to play with it later this week and ... i'll be back for more or maybe not

thanks

 

[GHwell]

try moving the slider all the way to the right on the master this will reduce the power of the master in ettl. No matter what you should be getting some light from the second flash Have you tried putting the other flash on the camera as the master? try this also set the master in manual the slave in ettl now on the master set the b channel to full power and the a channel to 1/64 power this will push the slave to the max

 

[Port Royal Dad]

For instance, I use the 30D. Of course yours will be different, but look at you Custom Function settings. You could have a CF setting that's causing you a conflict.

On my 30D

CF 05, AF- Assist Beam
0: Emits
1: Does Not Emit
2: Only external flash emits

CF 07, Flash Firing
0: Flash Fires
1: Flash does not fire

Regards, Mike
--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 

[Port Royal Dad]

...and not only for trouble shooting, but for seeing the cause and effect of changing the speed-light ratio output levels.

Regards, Mike

try moving the slider all the way to the right on the master this will reduce the power of the master in ettl. No matter what you should be getting some light from the second flash Have you tried putting the other flash on the camera as the master? try this also set the master in manual the slave in ettl now on the master set the b channel to full power and the a channel to 1/64 power this will push the slave to the max

--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 

[foxikk]

many suggestion i like that. i try them all but later this week. I dont have time right now to do that. I know that ma C.Fn are set correct. I have assist beam on and flash firing. The only thing I dont know and didn't try is the slider for ratio. I got something about grouips A:B or A:B C and not reallynothing about movig power ratio

 

[Port Royal Dad]

In ETTL mode, the flash power output between the A:B and/or C groups will be determined on how the camera meters the scene. Experiment with all the ratios, 1:8 and 8:1 (cause and affect)...it makes a significant difference in which ratio you use, which light or not that is told to provide more output over the other.

r/Mike

many suggestion i like that. i try them all but later this week. I dont have time right now to do that. I know that ma C.Fn are set correct. I have assist beam on and flash firing. The only thing I dont know and didn't try is the slider for ratio. I got something about grouips A:B or A:B C and not reallynothing about movig power ratio

--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 

[GHwell]

The ration silder is numbered each way from the center by moving it to the right it reduced the power of the on camera flash while keeping the second or and the third flash set to the original power setting. this is how you can control the power of the slave flashes while in ettl mode. move it to the left and you reduce power to the slaves. The way they do the numbering is confusing so just remember each dot is worth one half F stop and each number is a whole stop of power reduction

 

[GHwell]

come back and let everyone know what it was please

 

[foxikk]

will do.. if I find solution for that.

And I was thinking that PRE-FLASH from master on camera flash was triggering slave to early and that's why didn't work. I hope I will play with it on sunday

 

[GHwell]

That has nothing to do with triggering the canon slave flash. The Ir beam sends out that information. The preflash is what gathers the information for the master to decide what to do then it sends out an Ir beam of information

 

[ScratchDisk]

Hi,
Are we assuming that the camera body is a 5DMkII?

Also are the 580's the originals or MkIIs as well? Knowing these make it easier to advise. Certainly both ETTL/Autoflash (with A:B ratio & FEC for C etc) and Canon Manual Flash (i.e remote M power setting from the master) should be possible.

All outgoing 'Pre-flashes' from any 5xxEx master or from a 7D or 60D controller are a mixture of white visible light and 'near-IR'. (The ST-E2 filters out the white visible component with an IR-pass filter). Under Canon Wireless, the outgoing 'pre-flash' is a complex coded stream as explained here; (esp on page 2. 'How it works');
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/flash/wireless_flash.do

The return 'pre-flashes' are obviously white light sensed TTL by the camera body.

Chuck Gardner's site is generally excellent - since writing it, he has agreed the '.. mixture of white visible light and 'near-IR' .. ' notion, for 5xxEx outgoing 'pre-flashes'.

 

[paulcroft]

May I also recommend, as another has done above, that you spend time inwardly digesting Chuck Gardner's site:

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

There's a wealth of invaluable info here. Take your time, read Chuck's pages and understand what's happening. He gives a step by step guide on how to set things up and also explains why following the advice found in Canon's flash manual results in failure.

Once things are working, if you copy Chuck's primary advice and use the on camera flash as the fill light and the off camera flash as the key light you'll not only find things such as why setting the A:B ratio to 1:1 results in an actual shadows:highlights ratio of 1:2, you'll also understand why. Just one of the many useful things you'll learn.

I can't recommend this site highly enough and am hugely grateful to those like Chuck who give us the benefit of their experience for free.

Paul

 

[california_sunset]

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

If you like the technical side and don't mind a lot of history read the eos flash bible several times. To really gain a deep understanding of how multi flash canon ttl responds to different situations takes a great deal of practice. Also read your manual a few time and as you read it follow along physically with the flashes... using all the settings and taking practice shots.

--
Dan Scheele
Hermosa Beach, California, USA

 

[foxikk]

Finally i Have the answer!

Yep the camera is Canon 5D MK2 and flashes are 580ex and 580ex II.

I tried everything, all possible setting.... groups, ratios, channels, etc. Nothing seem to be working.

Master - Slave - Channel 1 - Group A, Ratio A:B or A:B C.. nothing

I tried all the combination possible, except one which I didn't think was important. And that thing was CHANNEL.... 1, 2 or 3 didn't work. As soon I set both on CH.4 everything started to work... weird.

I don't know why other channels didn't work as long as they both were set to the same channel (interference?!) but on Channel 4 they work flawlessly.

So the solution was simple and unexpected. So now it's time to play with new light setup.

Thanks everyone for help and sticking with me with this problem.
I hope other will find this helpful also

 

[Port Royal Dad]

But I wonder if you took the speedlights outside, away from other potential sources of interference if the channels 1-3 would work?

I'd be curious...you might have a defective speedlight.

But glad that "channel 4" works.
Regards, Mike

Finally i Have the answer!

Yep the camera is Canon 5D MK2 and flashes are 580ex and 580ex II.

I tried everything, all possible setting.... groups, ratios, channels, etc. Nothing seem to be working.

Master - Slave - Channel 1 - Group A, Ratio A:B or A:B C.. nothing

I tried all the combination possible, except one which I didn't think was important. And that thing was CHANNEL.... 1, 2 or 3 didn't work. As soon I set both on CH.4 everything started to work... weird.

I don't know why other channels didn't work as long as they both were set to the same channel (interference?!) but on Channel 4 they work flawlessly.

So the solution was simple and unexpected. So now it's time to play with new light setup.

Thanks everyone for help and sticking with me with this problem.
I hope other will find this helpful also

--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)