2 missing features with auto-iso

[Dennis]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[ultimitsu]

I agree, OP sounds like someone who has not properly used existing auto-iso (Nikon) before jumping to the conclusion that it is insufficient. No disrespect intended.

Perhaps the OP hasn't been clear enough, but I think what he asks is entirely reasonable and more than logical :

1) Currently, the fastest way one can modify the minimum shutter speed is by using custom / user modes. This has the following disadvantages :

a) the mode dial frequently isn't placed where you can access it as rapidly as a programmable dial. For example on a lot of bodies it's on the left hand shoulder and isn't exactly the easiest of controls to access while looking through the viewfinder.

Sure, but that is only because it is something you would only rarely change. Like everything else hiding deep in the menu.

b) it wastes valuable custom modes that could be used for broader, less specific setting changes - as an illustration on my EM1, which has four custom modes, three of them are used with nearly identical settings, only the minimum shutter speed being different - if I could quickly adjust the minimum shutter speed otherwise I would be able to coalesce those three custom modes into one, freeing up two extra custom modes.

I dont think "waste" is the right word. custom modes are meant to be used. the fact that changing MSS is something most people dont do often makes it an ideal candidate for the few who wish to use it more often as custom mode.

c) it limits the user to two, three, even four on an Olympus camera, minimum shutter speeds rapidly accessible.

Sure, but how many do you need really?

What the op would like is be to be able to set in P or A mode the minimum shutter speed with a programmable dial, thereby solving all the issues above. And if it's a question of not having enough programmable dials, well, for starters I still can't figure out why camera manufacturers still think only two programmable dials make sense on digital cameras - and Sony's proven you can find space for no less than five dials on the right hand side of a tiny mirrorless camera. And I'll remind people that using M mode is different, as what the OP would like is to set the MINIMUM shutter speed, allowing the shutter speed to float upwards if the light is strong enough, thereby not necessitating any input from the user to avoid overexposure. Sometimes, a fixed shutter speed isn't necessary to get the effect one needs, only a minimum shutter speed is.

I just dont buy what you said here. If light level is strong, then shutter speed automatically go up in Av mode to the point where auto-iso-increment doesnt kick in.

2) Currently, on Nikon cameras, and all those with a somewhat decent auto ISO implementation, users have to choose between either setting a fixed minimum shutter speed or let the camera automatically set the minimum shutter speed (with an optional user-selectable bias). This means that, if, for example, you're using a 28-300mm, non-stabilised lens and shooting people at an event :

a) You've set the minimum shutter speed to a fixed, 1/60th of a second speed : then everytime you'll go past 60mm or so you'll risk introducing camera shake.

I say, fixed MSS is generally a bad choice when variable MSS based on FL is available.

b) You've set the minimum shutter speed to "auto" with no bias : then everytime you go below 60mm or so there is a risk of introducing excessive motion blur as the camera will select a shutter speed as low as 1/28th of a second at the wide end.

c) You've set the minimum shutter speed to "auto" with a faster bias to avoid the camera using shutter speeds as low as 1/28th without a bias at the widest focal length : then you'll risk to unnecessarily raise ISO at most focal lengths, since the camera will pick, for example, 1/120th at 80mm while 1/80th would have been sufficient.

This situation you are referring to is, by all account rather rare and if it indeed is an issue, I say just use M + auto-iso and everytime you change FL, you make a judgement call as to what is the right SS for that FL to avoid both hand shake and subject motion blur. The camera can never be smart enough to work that out for you and whatever it does based on a basic fomular will always be an inferior choice.

The OP's request is to be able to optionally combine BOTH the fixed, minimum shutter speed, and the "auto" minimum shutter speed. In that case, if you've set the first to 1/60th of a second, the camera will use 1/60th as it's minimum shutter speed between 28 and 60mm, but will use the 1/focal rule above 60mm - eliminating all the issues raised above. It's an entirely logical request.

What you described here may be asking for something that current Auto-iso does not do, but it certainly isnt a realworld shortcoming that calls for any urgent fix. I started M + Auto-ISO whjen it first became available. I think current Nikon implementation is about as good as it gets without significant overhaul of customization access.

 

[Christof21]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

 

[MayaTlab0]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

Not just Fuji, this is the way most if not all auto ISO + minimum shutter speed systems work.

 

[MayaTlab0]

I agree, OP sounds like someone who has not properly used existing auto-iso (Nikon) before jumping to the conclusion that it is insufficient. No disrespect intended.

Perhaps the OP hasn't been clear enough, but I think what he asks is entirely reasonable and more than logical :

1) Currently, the fastest way one can modify the minimum shutter speed is by using custom / user modes. This has the following disadvantages :

a) the mode dial frequently isn't placed where you can access it as rapidly as a programmable dial. For example on a lot of bodies it's on the left hand shoulder and isn't exactly the easiest of controls to access while looking through the viewfinder.

Sure, but that is only because it is something you would only rarely change. Like everything else hiding deep in the menu.

There are plenty of things in cameras' menus that I'd like to change much more frequently

b) it wastes valuable custom modes that could be used for broader, less specific setting changes - as an illustration on my EM1, which has four custom modes, three of them are used with nearly identical settings, only the minimum shutter speed being different - if I could quickly adjust the minimum shutter speed otherwise I would be able to coalesce those three custom modes into one, freeing up two extra custom modes.

I dont think "waste" is the right word. custom modes are meant to be used. the fact that changing MSS is something most people dont do often makes it an ideal candidate for the few who wish to use it more often as custom mode.

Well I could already be using the freed custom modes on my Olympus for other uses, so I'd really benefit from coalescing most of these custom modes into one.

c) it limits the user to two, three, even four on an Olympus camera, minimum shutter speeds rapidly accessible.

Sure, but how many do you need really?

As far as I'm concerned I think around four with stabilised systems, three otherwise. But the OP's proposition basically allows you to quickly set the minimum shutter speed at any shutter speed, who wouldn't want that ?

Perhaps Allan Olesen's post would make you realise the usefulness of this : if it's a problem, instead of thinking about it as a minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, think of it as manual mode where the shutter speed automatically goes up when the light level is strong enough to create overexposure. It's conceptually the exact same thing.

If the programmable dial thing is an issue, it's also possible to have quick access to a more limited number of pre-selected minimum shutter speeds with, for example, a lever, or a cycling button. As long as it's faster than the current use of custom modes !

What the op would like is be to be able to set in P or A mode the minimum shutter speed with a programmable dial, thereby solving all the issues above. And if it's a question of not having enough programmable dials, well, for starters I still can't figure out why camera manufacturers still think only two programmable dials make sense on digital cameras - and Sony's proven you can find space for no less than five dials on the right hand side of a tiny mirrorless camera. And I'll remind people that using M mode is different, as what the OP would like is to set the MINIMUM shutter speed, allowing the shutter speed to float upwards if the light is strong enough, thereby not necessitating any input from the user to avoid overexposure. Sometimes, a fixed shutter speed isn't necessary to get the effect one needs, only a minimum shutter speed is.

I just dont buy what you said here. If light level is strong, then shutter speed automatically go up in Av mode to the point where auto-iso-increment doesnt kick in.

And it goes up when ? When the camera's able to satisfy your minimum shutter speed without having to raise ISO. The minimum shutter speed, which you can't adjust as quickly as the shutter speed in S or M mode (or, in many cameras, that you still can't even adjust anyway). That's exactly the gist of the issue.

2) Currently, on Nikon cameras, and all those with a somewhat decent auto ISO implementation, users have to choose between either setting a fixed minimum shutter speed or let the camera automatically set the minimum shutter speed (with an optional user-selectable bias). This means that, if, for example, you're using a 28-300mm, non-stabilised lens and shooting people at an event :

a) You've set the minimum shutter speed to a fixed, 1/60th of a second speed : then everytime you'll go past 60mm or so you'll risk introducing camera shake.

I say, fixed MSS is generally a bad choice when variable MSS based on FL is available.

Amen for that. But in that case (people photography with a 28-300mm lens), it actually is the best of the three options in the 28-60mm (or so) focal length range, since you will prevent the shutter speed going to low at the wide end, or, if you've set a faster bias, the ISO going higher than needed above 28mm. But it's no longer the best above 60mm or so. So, problem.

b) You've set the minimum shutter speed to "auto" with no bias : then everytime you go below 60mm or so there is a risk of introducing excessive motion blur as the camera will select a shutter speed as low as 1/28th of a second at the wide end.

c) You've set the minimum shutter speed to "auto" with a faster bias to avoid the camera using shutter speeds as low as 1/28th without a bias at the widest focal length : then you'll risk to unnecessarily raise ISO at most focal lengths, since the camera will pick, for example, 1/120th at 80mm while 1/80th would have been sufficient.

This situation you are referring to is, by all account rather rare

is it ?

and if it indeed is an issue, I say just use M + auto-iso and everytime you change FL, you make a judgement call as to what is the right SS for that FL to avoid both hand shake and subject motion blur.

Meaning that I would have to frequently change a setting which I wouldn't have had to bother about much if the OP's suggestions were implemented. Not as convenient.

The camera can never be smart enough to work that out for you and whatever it does based on a basic fomular will always be an inferior choice.

The camera's algorithms may indeed not be smarter, but they surely are a lot faster than me - and the whole point of the OP's proposition is to reduce the number of user inputs needed when an algorithm could replace them to some degree. If smarter is needed, well, the OP's first proposition would allow you to quickly correct the camera's algorithm, and of coure there still is manual mode if needs be.

The OP's request is to be able to optionally combine BOTH the fixed, minimum shutter speed, and the "auto" minimum shutter speed. In that case, if you've set the first to 1/60th of a second, the camera will use 1/60th as it's minimum shutter speed between 28 and 60mm, but will use the 1/focal rule above 60mm - eliminating all the issues raised above. It's an entirely logical request.

What you described here may be asking for something that current Auto-iso does not do, but it certainly isnt a realworld shortcoming

I think we've proven above that the current implementation presents a number of shortcoming.

that calls for any urgent fix.

Yep, Nikon has far bigger issues to solve. And a lot of other manufacturers are still in the stone age when it comes to their auto ISO implementation anyway.

 

[Allan Olesen]

I guess I'd like to see something like Auto ISO in M where it bumps the shutter speed (or decreases the aperture) if overexposing at base ISO, because the alternative (what the OP describes) still leaves me with the situation where the camera may not be putting as much light on the scene as possible ... if I say the min shutter speed is 1/250s and it decides to go to 1/500s at ISO 1600 instead of 1/250s at ISO 3200.

No. That will not happen with the OP's proposal.

The OP is asking for a direct way to set minimum shutter speed when the camera is set to A + Auto ISO + minimum shutter speed. That will not create the problem you describe. In fact, it is exactly the same mode as you and I have described, just with other words and mode selections.

 

[Allan Olesen]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

This is exactly one of the two existing modes I alread described. I also described why it is insufficient: You have no direct control of the minimum shutter speed.

 

[Jeff Charles]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

Which issues has Fuji left unfixed?

 

[MayaTlab0]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

Which issues has Fuji left unfixed?

Well, for example, since we're on about auto ISO and minimum shutter speed in this thread, Fuji used to provide a non-adjustable, focal-length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, but, later on, due to user complaints, switched it to a customisable, fixed value minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, and people complained that Fuji didn't allow users to keep the previous auto minimum shutter speed setting - for obvious reasons since it a fixed value only can be cumbersome with a zoom lens. Basically, Fuji did one step forwards, one step backwards. Why couldn't they at least just copy what Nikon's doing is flabbergasting. They already have all the algorithms in place, they just have to design a bunch of extra menu options, something they've shown they are perfectly able to do when they want to.

 

[Jeff Charles]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

Which issues has Fuji left unfixed?

Well, for example, since we're on about auto ISO and minimum shutter speed in this thread, Fuji used to provide a non-adjustable, focal-length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, but, later on, due to user complaints, switched it to a customisable, fixed value minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, and people complained that Fuji didn't allow users to keep the previous auto minimum shutter speed setting - for obvious reasons since it a fixed value only can be cumbersome with a zoom lens. Basically, Fuji did one step forwards, one step backwards. Why couldn't they at least just copy what Nikon's doing is flabbergasting. They already have all the algorithms in place, they just have to design a bunch of extra menu options, something they've shown they are perfectly able to do when they want to.

Another auto ISO issue is that in the X100T, they kept 1/125 as the fastest minimum shutter speed. That was a common complaint about the X100. It was fixed in the X-E2, and I assume in the X-T1, by going to 1/500, but they reverted to 1/125 in the X100T.

 

[MayaTlab0]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

Which issues has Fuji left unfixed?

Well, for example, since we're on about auto ISO and minimum shutter speed in this thread, Fuji used to provide a non-adjustable, focal-length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, but, later on, due to user complaints, switched it to a customisable, fixed value minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, and people complained that Fuji didn't allow users to keep the previous auto minimum shutter speed setting - for obvious reasons since it a fixed value only can be cumbersome with a zoom lens. Basically, Fuji did one step forwards, one step backwards. Why couldn't they at least just copy what Nikon's doing is flabbergasting. They already have all the algorithms in place, they just have to design a bunch of extra menu options, something they've shown they are perfectly able to do when they want to.

Another auto ISO issue is that in the X100T, they kept 1/125 as the fastest minimum shutter speed. That was a common complaint about the X100. It was fixed in the X-E2, and I assume in the X-T1, by going to 1/500, but they reverted to 1/125 in the X100T.

Actually they didn't exactly revert to 1/125 with the X100T since the X100S never got updated in the first place - contrary to all other X cameras that received the update at the time - for absolutely no logical reason at all .

 

[Jeff Charles]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

Which issues has Fuji left unfixed?

Well, for example, since we're on about auto ISO and minimum shutter speed in this thread, Fuji used to provide a non-adjustable, focal-length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, but, later on, due to user complaints, switched it to a customisable, fixed value minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, and people complained that Fuji didn't allow users to keep the previous auto minimum shutter speed setting - for obvious reasons since it a fixed value only can be cumbersome with a zoom lens. Basically, Fuji did one step forwards, one step backwards. Why couldn't they at least just copy what Nikon's doing is flabbergasting. They already have all the algorithms in place, they just have to design a bunch of extra menu options, something they've shown they are perfectly able to do when they want to.

Another auto ISO issue is that in the X100T, they kept 1/125 as the fastest minimum shutter speed. That was a common complaint about the X100. It was fixed in the X-E2, and I assume in the X-T1, by going to 1/500, but they reverted to 1/125 in the X100T.

Actually they didn't exactly revert to 1/125 with the X100T since the X100S never got updated in the first place - contrary to all other X cameras that received the update at the time - for absolutely no logical reason at all .

Thanks for the clarification. "Revert" was the wrong word. I probably should have written that Fuji has continued their inexplicable limitation of minimum shutter speed to 1/125 in their X100 series cameras.

At least their cameras have that feature, which Sony Alpha and Olympus mFT cameras do not.

--
Jeff
Leave it in the ground!

 

[MayaTlab0]

It can be designed not to do that. For example, in aperture priority mode, FujiX cameras will only increase shutter speed above the minimum shutter speed, when the scene is too bright at minimum ISO. When the scene darkens, they increase ISO to max ISO, and once max ISO is reached, they begin decreasing shutter speed below the shutter speed minimum. It works well.

That sounds good ... I find Fuji very intriguing; they seem to make decisions based on photographers needs more than any other camera company.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I have Fuji and strongly disagree with this though I admit most people think like this...

They let many issues unfixed.

Which issues has Fuji left unfixed?

Well, for example, since we're on about auto ISO and minimum shutter speed in this thread, Fuji used to provide a non-adjustable, focal-length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, but, later on, due to user complaints, switched it to a customisable, fixed value minimum shutter speed in auto ISO, and people complained that Fuji didn't allow users to keep the previous auto minimum shutter speed setting - for obvious reasons since it a fixed value only can be cumbersome with a zoom lens. Basically, Fuji did one step forwards, one step backwards. Why couldn't they at least just copy what Nikon's doing is flabbergasting. They already have all the algorithms in place, they just have to design a bunch of extra menu options, something they've shown they are perfectly able to do when they want to.

Another auto ISO issue is that in the X100T, they kept 1/125 as the fastest minimum shutter speed. That was a common complaint about the X100. It was fixed in the X-E2, and I assume in the X-T1, by going to 1/500, but they reverted to 1/125 in the X100T.

Actually they didn't exactly revert to 1/125 with the X100T since the X100S never got updated in the first place - contrary to all other X cameras that received the update at the time - for absolutely no logical reason at all .

Thanks for the clarification. "Revert" was the wrong word. I probably should have written that Fuji has continued their inexplicable limitation of minimum shutter speed to 1/125 in their X100 series cameras.

At least their cameras have that feature, which Sony Alpha and Olympus mFT cameras do not.

Agreed ! And it used to be even worse in Pana land where until the GH4 they didn't even have auto ISO in manual mode (or shutter + aperture priority).

Although, on the Olympus, there is an unofficial, partial workaround. The "slow flash sync speed" option actually acts as a minimum shutter speed option, even when you aren't using flash (don't ask about the logic of this, it's Olympus). With a set of serious limitations though (the main one is that regardless of the speed you've set it at, it never goes below 1/35mm equivalent focal, so you can only use it to limit the minimum shutter speed to faster speeds than 1/focal).

 

[Allan Olesen]

Thanks for the clarification. "Revert" was the wrong word. I probably should have written that Fuji has continued their inexplicable limitation of minimum shutter speed to 1/125 in their X100 series cameras.

At least their cameras have that feature, which Sony Alpha and Olympus mFT cameras do not.

I am a bit confused now. What is it that those Fuji cameras have?

If I understand it correctly from you two, some of their models have a completely fixed minimum shutter speed, while others have a minimum shutter speed which can only be set within a rather limited range and is never dependent on focal length. Is that correct?

 

[idr]

And

3 - Option to select a limit for aperture so that e.g. in dim light once my preferred limit it reached the camera would start to raise ISO without first forcing aperture wide open. This would help me on travels with my Tamron 16-300 which is quite fine if I could block the f3.6 which is very blurry. I can deal with f5.6 and ISO 1600 but any ISO with f3.6 is a wasted shot.

Arent you talking about Av mode with Auto-iso? You set aperture to F5.6, let the camera pick shutter speed and ISO based on metering. You can set minimum SS on a ratio to FL or as fixed.

Yes, that is something I'll try next time. But I would like the aperture setting be dynamic and not fixed. I guess aperture around f8-10 is the sweet spot on many zoom lenses. Av mode would not let me get f8 (automatically) even if lighting would allow.

The whole point of Av mode is that you, the photographer, dictate the aperture to suit your artistic vision. If you do not want to bother with this, you should just use full Auto and let camera decide all parameters. This conversation thus would not be about AUTO-ISO, but about full Auto.

Sorry I probably should not have replied "yes" in the first place as I was not talking about Av mode.

I was wishing for an option to rule out certain apertures in Auto ISO just to let me use Auto ISO without ruining my non-artsy pics with unintended blur caused by bad lens wide open.

That option should be easy to implement. Cannot see how that kind of an option would hurt art shooters. It would not cripple Av mode. It would help me use to my cheap hyperzoom lens in fast situations where don't want to use all my concentration on settings or don't have the time for that.

And using Full Auto does not help as the camera would again use the horrid f3.6.

 

[MayaTlab0]

Thanks for the clarification. "Revert" was the wrong word. I probably should have written that Fuji has continued their inexplicable limitation of minimum shutter speed to 1/125 in their X100 series cameras.

At least their cameras have that feature, which Sony Alpha and Olympus mFT cameras do not.

I am a bit confused now. What is it that those Fuji cameras have?

If I understand it correctly from you two, some of their models have a completely fixed minimum shutter speed, while others have a minimum shutter speed which can only be set within a rather limited range and is never dependent on focal length. Is that correct?

Early X system cameras had a non-customsable focal length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO. Like Nikon on "auto" minimum shutter speed, without the possibility to bias it.

The X100 series, on the other hand, had a customisable, non-variable (fixed) minimum shutter speed - logical because of the fixed focal length. Unfortunately the fastest available shutter speed was 1/125.

Users complained about the early X system cameras' minimum shutter speed implementation, and Fuji implemented later on the X100 implementation on the X system cameras via a firmware update, this time with the ability to go as fast as 1/500th (but unfortunately, Fuji never updated the X100(s,t) limit to 1/500th).

Users complained that they no longer could enjoy an automatically variable minimum shutter speed with zoom lenses. So, basically, one step forward, one step backwards.

rant mode on

I personally find this auto ISO fiasco frankly worrying about the state of camera manufacturers' design teams in general, as it isn't uncharted territory, Nikon's been showing the way to all other camera manufacturers for years now (so no need to think creatively, just copying would already be a good start), technically it's more than likely easy to make since, taking Fuji as an example, they've shown they already have all the necessary algorithms, and it takes only a few extra menus to make (I don't think it's a big deal, for example all the necessary graphical elements already exist elsewhere on Fuji cameras), and still, more than half a decade or so later, only Canon and I believe Samsung finally have an auto ISO feature that matches Nikon's (which, as this thread demonstrates, can be further improved). Meanwhile Panasonic's still stuck in the early cambrian period of auto ISO implementation, barely out of the primordial mud.

rant mode off

 

[Allan Olesen]

Thanks for the clarification. "Revert" was the wrong word. I probably should have written that Fuji has continued their inexplicable limitation of minimum shutter speed to 1/125 in their X100 series cameras.

At least their cameras have that feature, which Sony Alpha and Olympus mFT cameras do not.

I am a bit confused now. What is it that those Fuji cameras have?

If I understand it correctly from you two, some of their models have a completely fixed minimum shutter speed, while others have a minimum shutter speed which can only be set within a rather limited range and is never dependent on focal length. Is that correct?

Early X system cameras had a non-customsable focal length dependent minimum shutter speed in auto ISO. Like Nikon on "auto" minimum shutter speed, without the possibility to bias it.

The X100 series, on the other hand, had a customisable, non-variable (fixed) minimum shutter speed - logical because of the fixed focal length. Unfortunately the fastest available shutter speed was 1/125.

Users complained about the early X system cameras' minimum shutter speed implementation, and Fuji implemented later on the X100 implementation on the X system cameras via a firmware update, this time with the ability to go as fast as 1/500th (but unfortunately, Fuji never updated the X100(s,t) limit to 1/500th).

Users complained that they no longer could enjoy an automatically variable minimum shutter speed with zoom lenses. So, basically, one step forward, one step backwards.

OK. Then I don't understand your comment about Sony cameras. What you describe is not better or worse than what Sony provides, just equally bad in a different way.

A Sony a77 in A + Auto ISO will use a minimum shutter speed of either 1/60 second or approx. 1/(1.5 * FL), whichever is fastest. There is no option to change that (except of course by forcing it by narrowing down the allowable ISO range).

 

[MayaTlab0]

OK. Then I don't understand your comment about Sony cameras.

Not the same person .

What you describe is not better or worse than what Sony provides, just equally bad in a different way.

Agreed.

 

[Allan Olesen]

OK. Then I don't understand your comment about Sony cameras.

Not the same person .

Well, I said I was confused, didn't I. Perhaps it is just a general state and not related to what you and Jeff write...

 

[stevenjames]

If I'm not mistaken what the OP asked for sounds pretty much the way Nikon's auto-iso works.

I set the minimum shutter speed and max iso. The camera will use the lowest shutter speed I set then ramp up iso until it meets that minimum. If it can't get a proper exposure with max iso and min. shutter speed it will do the only thing left to do and use a longer shutter speed.

Nikon has the "My Menu" option where I am able to put my most often accessed menu items / camera settings and I can rank them or list them in order. I then set my camera function button to "go to the top item in my menu" which for me is the auto iso settings. Once there a click of the left button and I'm at my menu with all my items.

I don't know if this is what you mean or if its already been mentioned, I haven't read the 3 pages of replies here but this works great for me, makes perfect sense and I don't feel the camera lacking in features.

Steve