16MP is enough for APS-C

In my case, even 12 Mp is enough for me. I shoot a lot of landscape and I can always try to stitch when wanting very high resolution. After a weekend in the mountains, it is not unusual for me to bring 700 or 1000 photographs shot in Raw and it takes a lot of time to process 16 Mp images in my workflow, never mind 24 Mp. I would rather prefer that Nikon would focus on better noise and DR, but I am afraid that more Mp are on their way to us.

Rgds
--
Francisco Romero
 
i just printed a d7000 shot at 24x36, looks brilliant. i dont know that anyone needs more than 16, but if noise is not increased i dont see the harm. pcs are fast, storage is cheap, lets you crop more after the fact if you need to.
 
The NEX7 is the acknowledged DX resolution leader for the moment. I don't see much difference between that and the D3200. I'm very impressed.
The NEX5n has a 16mp sensor and has less noise at low ISO than the NEX7.

I don't see much difference in image quality between these cameras either, so what is the point?
 
This is the same line we hear every time sensor resolution increases.
And it is still a very valid argument.
Who are you to say what is "enough" for other users?
The op was specifically about APS-C sensors and the realities of diffraction limiting ultimate resolution, once again, a valid argument (unlike yours).
Technology advances, resolution increases, possibilities increase, it's all good.
No, actually, it isn't. There is plenty of evidence that the megapixel race is very bad for a real improvement to enthusiast photographers. Simply matching dynamic rage of a lower resolution sensor is meaningless if you consider developing the same sensor could have resulted in much better dynamic range and high ISO performance. There is plenty of evidence of this with manufacturers that stick with a given resolution and develop the technology .
If you don't ever want more than 16mp than you are just being closed minded.
On the contrary, being closed minded is simply running with the crowd (and the marketing department of any given manufacturer)
I suggest that 10 years from now you will be using a camera with many more than 16mp and you will be glad to have it. It's called "progress" and without it we would still be riding horses to work and using outhouses (no offense intended to current outhouse users ;-)).
The same progress that tells people they need a 6litre v8 engine in the family car when a much more efficient 2.5 litre v6 engine would do everything required.

That is the sort of "progress" that will have us all back on horseback soon enough.
 
I think at a lot of people are writing in a selfish manner.
"I don't need 24mp, so don't make cameras like that"
Another one:
"I don't need video capabilities in my SLR, so don't make cameras like that".
Its a strange way of writing.

I personally welcome (on my 3200) 24mp, this gives me a 13.5inch x 20inch @300dpi which my clients like.

If somebody wants to buy a D800 with 36mp for professional work, or to photograph his cat, who am i to say they can't do that.
Live and let live.

Personally i don't think that there as a great deal of difference between 16mp and 24mp for the average user.

Also remember (and i stand to be corrected) if a APS-C 16mp was converted to full frame, it would be 24mp, and a APS-C 24mp converted to full frame would be 36mp.

We all have PLENTY of choices for all cameras, of all different shapes and sizes...in fact i think that we are all spoilt for choice.
Regards
 
Also remember (and i stand to be corrected) if a APS-C 16mp was converted to full frame, it would be 24mp, and a APS-C 24mp converted to full frame would be 36mp.
No, it wouldn’t. The 1.5× crop factor refers to focal length , which is a linear value. The megapixel count, however, is a square value, which means that the conversion factor for the MP number is 1.5² = 2.25.

So, 16 MP on DX would scale to 36 MP on FX (which is why the D800 DX crop mode counts 16 MP), and 24 MP on DX would scale to 54 MP on FX.
--
Pics, or it didn’t happen!
 
The MaxIso aka Meshuggah record is still stuck in comparing apples and oranges. A Nikon isn't a Canon, different technologies and sensors.

You have an opinion that has been proven false by current facts. The 7D proves nothing this regard. It has two processors cope with the readout and data, but still only manages 8fps.

Speed comes at a cost ($). Nikon always had slower readout with Sony sensors than Sony. The D4 continued the market for speed in the Nikon lineup. Noise performance is similar to the D800, despite a 20 MP difference.
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
Here's my take on this. Lets say in this imaginary world, noise, color, and DR is exactly the same no matter the MP. Wouldn't it be amazing if you could take a picture with a 18mm of the golden gate bridge, from like a mile away, and later crop so far in that you could make a 8x10 of somebody's face in one of the cars? If we had a million MP at our disposal, imagine the possibilities.

Now we all know that cropping that far in will start to show flaws in the shot, but with enough light and a fast enough shutter, we can push far past the limit of even 24MP. The only real limit is noise, because if we crop in far enough with a million MP sensor, we will end up with too noisy a crop. If we can improve overall noise performance, and keep DR and color good, more MP is always better. IF . The only other issue people could have is file sizes. I think there are definite limitations for either side, which is why they keep offering both to consumers.

I notice that the 7D is supposed to have an 18mp sensor, yet its fps is 8. The D7k for example only has 16mp, yet its fps is lower (6 if i remember correctly). This means that contrary to what I've read here, file size isn't the only factor in fps rates. The 7D has twin processors, no doubt lending to its speed. I'm starting to understand the tradeoff of more MP. Noise seems to become worse the more MP you have contrary to some opinions. The 7D is proof they can increase fps without sacrificing MP, so there must be another reason that a camera such as the D4 exists. Nikon made both the D4 and D800 at the same time, and they are worlds apart in resolution. The only explanation for this is noise. As the 7D shows, fps can't be why the D4 has less MP. They could have just added more processing power to the D800 and jacked it up to 11fps as well.
All things being equal the higher mp camera from the same camera company of the same generation will have more noise. As newer models appear on the market the higher mps cameras normally beat even the lower mps cameras of the previous generation in noise.
 
What this is really about is that dslrs are expensive, and people don't like buying a new camera one year only to see it surpassed by a cheaper model within 18 months. It makes people feel ike they're being played for suckers. In the ancient days of film cameras were pretty much the same from generation, to generation, being capable of the same exact IQ depending on the film, and lens used. Those days are over, and we are ever more on the mp treadmill at least until 12/21/2012.
 
There you have it in a nutshell. "I just don't see a need for any more resolution beyond 16MP in an APS-C sensor".
Please don't apply your needs and wants to others.

You are correct in assuming that more than 16MP is not needed most of the time, but that does not follow all the time as many other posters have mentioned.
Looking at the images from my D7000 on screen and also in large prints, I just don't see a need for any more resolution beyond 16MP in an APS-C sensor. A 24MP APS-C sensor is already diffraction limited by f8, so what's the point? More dynamic range is always welcome, but I don't want more megapixels in the bargain. Are you listening Nikon?
--
Regards,
Peter.
http://gowerphotos.tripod.com
 
What this is really about is that dslrs are expensive, and people don't like buying a new camera one year only to see it surpassed by a cheaper model within 18 months. It makes people feel ike they're being played for suckers. In the ancient days of film cameras were pretty much the same from generation, to generation, being capable of the same exact IQ depending on the film, and lens used. Those days are over, and we are ever more on the mp treadmill at least until 12/21/2012.
I suppose you have a point ask some d300s owners about that one!

I actually think most would be very happy with the 16mp CMOS sensor in a D300 type body. You'd think that would be pretty easy to do (plus a few tweaks etc)

Has not happened though
 
Also remember (and i stand to be corrected) if a APS-C 16mp was converted to full frame, it would be 24mp, and a APS-C 24mp converted to full frame would be 36mp.
No, it wouldn’t. The 1.5× crop factor refers to focal length , which is a linear value. The megapixel count, however, is a square value, which means that the conversion factor for the MP number is 1.5² = 2.25.

So, 16 MP on DX would scale to 36 MP on FX (which is why the D800 DX crop mode counts 16 MP), and 24 MP on DX would scale to 54 MP on FX.
--
Pics, or it didn’t happen!
Excellent...thanks for that, in fact I'm going to write this down.
Regards
 
Every time a new sensor with higher MPs is released, the crowd of the previous "latest and greatest" start these threads about THEIR number of megapixels being enough.

Why do people get so threatened by newer tech. that they have to create these threads to try and rationalize why their camera is still better.

6MP was enough... 10MP was enough... then 12 MP was the plateau... then 16MP was enough.... on and on it will go.

Zzzz...
 
that example was made to show the approximate resolution advantage with the weaker AA filter.
 
I agree that 16Mp is enough for APS-C ... in my case, it is more than enough.

However, I can see that for Nikon, the trend is toward 24Mp for APS-C right now. I dont know when this trend toward more and more Mp will stop. Hopefully we wont be seeing 36Mp then 50Mp for APS-C ... etc. To push more MP is relatively straight forward for the engineers so they continue to go for MP.

My wish is to see R&D focusing on the harder and more challenging aspects of sensor development and getting us we get better IQ as well better DR as well as continued improvements in AF performance in low light, etc. Of course, I cant wait to see better support for DX lenses too... my wish list includes items like a 16mm F:2.0 DX, 18mm F:1.8DX, 50-150mm F:2.8 VR, etc.

To me, those developments would make the APS-C DX format much richer and much better positioned then more and more Mp's.

--
Escaping (CT, USA) http://www.pbase.com/cvanlang
D700 / D300 / D7000 / D90 / K-5 / K10D / K-m / G2 / GF1 / V1 / LX5
 
The NEX5n has a 16mp sensor and has less noise at low ISO than the NEX7.
I see no difference on the DPR test setup at 100 that couldn't be attributed to a different raw conversion.Too close to make that call.
I don't see much difference in image quality between these cameras either, so what is the point?
Well, the point is obviously that both the D3200 and the Nex7 are the highest res DX cameras on the market. The D3200 stands out because it is 699 with lens.

Guys, you might as well face it, 24MP is coming to an enthusiast DX camera near you whether you like it or not. My prediciton is that people are gong to like a D400 a lot if it ever comes out. How's that for going out on a limb?
 
I'm sorry, but I had 8MP with my old Rebel, and it wasn't anywhere close to what any of the higher MP cameras can put out, especially for landscape work. Blurry treelines and mountain ridges tell the tale. The way some of you are carrying on you would think that all the world's landscape photogs are wasting their time with 4X5 and Phase One. Now that I have 36 unfiltered MP to play with, I'm here to tell you that additional fine detail is visible on a monitor and any size print at 8X10 or bigger without a problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51747496@N08/7476475470/sizes/l/in/set-72157630351021266/
 
This is the same line we hear every time sensor resolution increases.
And it is still a very valid argument.
Who are you to say what is "enough" for other users?
The op was specifically about APS-C sensors and the realities of diffraction limiting ultimate resolution, once again, a valid argument (unlike yours).
Technology advances, resolution increases, possibilities increase, it's all good.
No, actually, it isn't. There is plenty of evidence that the megapixel race is very bad for a real improvement to enthusiast photographers. Simply matching dynamic rage of a lower resolution sensor is meaningless if you consider developing the same sensor could have resulted in much better dynamic range and high ISO performance. There is plenty of evidence of this with manufacturers that stick with a given resolution and develop the technology .
If you don't ever want more than 16mp than you are just being closed minded.
On the contrary, being closed minded is simply running with the crowd (and the marketing department of any given manufacturer)
I suggest that 10 years from now you will be using a camera with many more than 16mp and you will be glad to have it. It's called "progress" and without it we would still be riding horses to work and using outhouses (no offense intended to current outhouse users ;-)).
The same progress that tells people they need a 6litre v8 engine in the family car when a much more efficient 2.5 litre v6 engine would do everything required.

That is the sort of "progress" that will have us all back on horseback soon enough.
In some ways you are correct, in some other ways u are not.

There are plenty of people who want a APS-C camera that does 24mp, that won't be used over 200asa, and does videos.
Aha i see a camera that fits the bill.....it looks like a 3200.

If a person wants to shoot sport pictures at night, then i would suggest another camera.
Live and let live.
Regards
 
Quick question. I have heard that the kit lens with the 3200 isn't capable of 24mp. If the D3200 has a 24mp sensor but the kit lens that comes with it is not capable of that high of resolution than what's the point?
 
Plus, the lens maker side of the equation will also have to row the boat a bit harder and generate some better grades of glass too. Nikon seems to be on a roll cranking out new lenses and patents of late for all these new bodies.

Storage-making companies will love it and gain from it as well.

Make the bodies cheap. Lenses not so much. Sort of like cheap printers and thousands of dollars a gallon for their overpriced, yet better and more longer-lasting (??) ink.

Besides, what will the 16MP crowd think when their Apple iPhone has 24MP (leaving the Nokia Pure 88 41MP phone out of it for now.).

Mack
 

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