10D focus issue real

[Pearl Rider]

--
Mishkin™
Theoretical Measurbator

Why are you trying to make John doubt his camera? Here we have a guy (greg n) who comes on this forum condemning a camera that he (and probably the salespeople too) know very little about. He runs it through a quickie test and blasts TWO of them as having the "real" 10D focus issue. And the "measurebators" mass to defend him against people here. It seems like we get a rise in these "10D focus issue" campaigns any time there's a call to end them like what's been happening lately.

 

[Pearl Rider]

Honestly, that looks a bit soft (no pun intended)--maybe on
purpose. Can you link to the orignal, full size and before any
post processing? Just curious.

They're even coming from the Sigma forum to join in.

 

[Pearl Rider]

Kinda faul post mr. Fisher! Shame on you!

Anyway, I don't care that much for this camera or this issue, but I
did have a Canon camera once that had an awful way of handling
overexposure: Solid Magenta Area's!!!

And what do I see in this sample picture of yours: A white
hightlight area surrounded by an area of strong magenta cast.

My camera was the G1 in 2000. Looks like Canon still or again lost
his grip on this problem. Yuk, this magenta problem was the main
reason I sold the G1 after 7 months of frustration.

Btw I strongle recommend that you select your samples a bit more
careful from now on.

Theo

Here's another from the Fuji camp jumping in the pool. Silly.

 

[Pearl Rider]

I was not trying to stir up anything, I was frustrated and
dissapointed, if you don't like this post why do you read it, let
alone respond to it. it's getting to the point that if everyone
isn't a yes person here they get dissed by people.

Because I feel you are intentionally trying to stir up trouble. I guess I don't understand the NEED to get on a forum and ***** about everything that "disappoints" me. I was "disappointed" in the D100 but I didn't feel the need to get on the Nikon forum and cr@p on it like you're doing here. And the same old cry goes up... "if you don't LOVE Canon, you're attacked." Silly.

 

[Charlie Kerper]

I hate yours too, do you have any more pics I can hate?

No matter how I try to stop it, it just keeps on doing this...



--
'In cyberspace, you can't hear the screams...'
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'
'Being 6'8 means not having to say you're sorry...'

Equipment list in profile.

 

[DavidP #28649]

Nope, because that formula appears to express Tv as a decimal second, too. His didn't. Also, that one includes ISO, his didn't.

That formula is the same as mine, BTW. It just uses log2(x) instead of log10. Few people know how to calculate log2(x) . . . so I wrote the formula using log10 and did the appropriate conversions.

I also broke out the ISO term into a separate log calculation. Either way is correct, as they are mathematically equivalent. log(ab) = log(a) + log(b) and log(a/b) = log(a) - log(b)

I thought I should say that, since somebody once showed a formula
(didn't account for ISO, though) where Tv was actually expressed as
100 for 1/100, and 1000 for 1/1000, etc.

Could it have been the one on this page:
http://dpreview.com/learn/Glossary/Exposure/Exposure_01.htm
?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[greg n]

thank you for the comments, if i do the test again I think I will follow yours and some others advice, but I think I will e-mail the pictures to a few to get feedback,

Second, keep your images so that we can all see them, as well as
the EXIF data. Otherwise, it's just anecdotal evidence, which is
next to worthless because there is no evidence!

I had my D100 and gear stolen and I have been bouncing back and
forth between the D100 and the 10D, not to mention thinking about
the D2H. I have been reading all the forum info on the 10D and all
the reviews. Every online review has rated the 10D as the better
buy and better camera. So I read all the foums, there was a lot in
the canon forum about problems with focusing, but then a lot of
people saying people didn't know how to use their camera and it was
just a few cameras. I had two well known posters who have both
cameras e-mail me their take, both suggested the Af focusing and
low light abilities of the D100 over the less noise better picture
10d. Well I was still considering the 10D cause all the online
reviews were so pro for it. I took a flash card into the big camera
store in my area, along with some objects to photograph for
comparing the two. One object i took was a blue plastic comb, I
wanted to see just how much better these out of camera 10D pictures
were. We set the cameras to Jpeg fine and auto and the same or as
close to lenses, and everything as equal as possible. Took some
pics with the nikon then put the card in the 10D and took some
pics. I noticed the comb would not focus clearly like the D100 just
did, the teeth just sort of blurred or blended together. The sales
rep looked and noticed the same problem, he said we were using
cheaper lenses so that could be the trouble. He put on the 16-35, a
good lens, and still the same focus trouble. So then he got another
10D and we tried it, still the same thing. The picture was
basically clear but the focus was a little off and very noticeable
difference on the comb teeth from the Nikon. I could tell the sales
person was getting a little frustrated so he said I should just get
the D100 again. So out of two 10D's at this camera store both had
focus trouble. I think that is pretty high numbers. Listening to
some of the people on the Canon forum chastising members who are
concerned about their 10D focus for asking or complaining, well
maybe you should take another look. cause there does seem to be a
problem. If you got a good 10D then good for you, but don't diss
those that didn't. It would seem that Canon, and I am sure Nikon as
well, makes sure they send a good focusing 10d to the reviewers,
but does not take the same care with the ones they sell to the
general public. I know you can send the camera and lens into Nikon
for focus alighnment, but i do not think that is acceptable for a
camera of this value. I am not a troll, I am just a consumer who
wants a good digital DSL. I think it is great that Canon came out
with the better, cheaper, stronger 10D, but I think they should
have been more careful to get it right. Right now I am neither a
Nikon owner or a Canon DSL owner, just a concerned potential
consumer.

 

[DavidP #28649]

If Mishkin's question makes John doubt his camera, then John has a problem.

Mishkin asked a simple question: how does he auto-focus on the eyes?

The answer, I'm sure, is that he doesn't. He lets the DOF keep her eyes "close enough" to the plane of focus to appear focused. Either that, or he manually focuses.

On a shot with that magnification, even the 1D's AF sensors aren't really small enough to focus solely on the eye. You're gonna pick up the forehead or nose.

Why are you trying to make John doubt his camera? Here we have a
guy (greg n) who comes on this forum condemning a camera that he
(and probably the salespeople too) know very little about. He runs
it through a quickie test and blasts TWO of them as having the
"real" 10D focus issue. And the "measurebators" mass to defend him
against people here. It seems like we get a rise in these "10D
focus issue" campaigns any time there's a call to end them like
what's been happening lately.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[greg n]

thank you for your comments, I had the E-10 before my Nikon D100 it was a great camera. I agree the 10D is a great camera, that is why i have been reading everything about it for the last two weeks. from my search it appears that the 10D just takes the best all round pictures in it's class.

affended by the two posters that have tried to say I am a troll. I
feel sorry for them as I think they are insecure people and are the
type to critisize rather than offer help. >
If you check my posts from the last few weeks I have been inquiring

into the D100 vs. the 10D and mostly questions of the 10D.> So when I tried the camera for my self and with the help of the
sales staff, and still we could not get the focus to work right,
and on two cameras. Well then I am thinking there is a focus issue.
So I am discussing it further here. I still like the 10D I am just
frustrated and dissapointed by todays activity. In any case I thank
those that have given positive suggestions. Greg N

Hi Greg: I understand that the D100 is good at low light focus.
How was the lighting?
I havn't read all of the threads below but if this hasn't been
asked, what focus was the 10D set at? (I presume the 7 point
default). What was the D100 set at?
I was shooting some birds today with my 10D, 28-135 is canon. I was
able to lock on to birds shooting thru small finger thick branches
that were just outside of the circle part of the viewfinder. The
bird was about 4" behind the front branches and locked quick and
accurate "no hunting" on the center focus setting. I have heard
from many previous D30 and D60 owners that the 10D is much better
at focusing than their old cams. Did this forum light up like a
christmas tree with focus issues on those cams?
IMO Center point should be the default setting but Canon choose the
more vunerable 7Point. I really wonder how many of the OOFs we
would hear about if the default was set to center?

--
Those that believe they can, can because they believe.

--
Those that believe they can, can because they believe.

 

[DavidP #28649]

If you're not 100% sure how the salesmen set-up the camera (in particular, which AF point to use, and also insist on the One-Shot mode -- do NOT use the AI-Focus mode), I'd say it's worth a trip back to have them compare the cameras again for you.

It didn't sound like you were really wanting to go with the D100 again to me. If I got the wrong impression, sorry.

Anyway, I'd hope that the camera salesman knew what he was doing. But these days, you just never know.

This isn't an attack, nor a flame. I don't think you're a troll. You may have encountered two 10D's that had AF calibration issues. But you may have encountered a camera that was set-up poorly for this test.

If you'd hung on to the image files, and posted them, we could've looked to see if that's what happened or not.

PS -- I also assume the salesman is smart enough to make sure that the comb is further away than the minimum focusing distance.

If you haven't already committed to the D100, I'd go back again.

The sales rep nor another one that tried to help could not get the
10D to focus clearly on the comb teeth, they trie two cameras and a
different lens;16-35. I was set to get the 10d but become
frustrated as they were and have come back to the drawing baord to
deside. I made this post as I was frustrated and have read so much
of the focus issue, but all the reviews are saying how great the
10D is, so obviously something was wrong in this case. I am
affended by the two posters that have tried to say I am a troll. I
feel sorry for them as I think they are insecure people and are the
type to critisize rather than offer help. Aslo they either don't
think before they post or are two lazy to do some research before
they make their false accusations. At this point it would not
matter if I was the President of Canon they would still insult me.

If you check my posts from the last few weeks I have been inquiring
into the D100 vs. the 10D and mostly questions of the 10D. I have
been doing this too learn more about the 10D as I have read it is
the best in it's price range. So I tried to compare the two cameras
and was unable to do so, becuase of a focus problem. I have no
doubt that the 10D is an excellent camera. However I have been
following the posts and there have been many concerns about the AF
of the 10D and many people telling those people they are wrong.

So when I tried the camera for my self and with the help of the
sales staff, and still we could not get the focus to work right,
and on two cameras. Well then I am thinking there is a focus issue.
So I am discussing it further here. I still like the 10D I am just
frustrated and dissapointed by todays activity. In any case I thank
those that have given positive suggestions. Greg N

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

AFTER they get to clean ISO 1600. I'd prefer even higher, but Canon hasn't even got there . . . yet.

Time will tell if the Foveon chip can ever get as clean as the Canon CMOS chips.

I want SD9, with Canon on it, with Canon mount.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

I wouldn't just email them, I'd post them.

Yes, you'll suffer slings and arrows (from one side or the other, maybe both).

But the more people looking at it, the better. IMO.

Plus, you can add a little more fuel to the fire.

I hope you do test again. And I hope you find a 10D that's to your liking.

thank you for the comments, if i do the test again I think I will
follow yours and some others advice, but I think I will e-mail the
pictures to a few to get feedback,

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[greg n]

thank you for your post. You are right I am really wanting the canon, unless the D2H is really cheap, not likely. funny you say that, both Nikon guys that I e-mailed for comparing views, that have both cameras, both said they felt I really just want the 10D so just get it. I think I will try to go back Tuesday, Holiday on Monday. though I think I will just e-mail the photo's to a few, don't want to go through the whole post like this again

It didn't sound like you were really wanting to go with the D100
again to me. If I got the wrong impression, sorry.

Anyway, I'd hope that the camera salesman knew what he was doing.
But these days, you just never know.

This isn't an attack, nor a flame. I don't think you're a troll.
You may have encountered two 10D's that had AF calibration issues.
But you may have encountered a camera that was set-up poorly for
this test.

If you'd hung on to the image files, and posted them, we could've
looked to see if that's what happened or not.

PS -- I also assume the salesman is smart enough to make sure that
the comb is further away than the minimum focusing distance.

If you haven't already committed to the D100, I'd go back again.

The sales rep nor another one that tried to help could not get the
10D to focus clearly on the comb teeth, they trie two cameras and a
different lens;16-35. I was set to get the 10d but become
frustrated as they were and have come back to the drawing baord to
deside. I made this post as I was frustrated and have read so much
of the focus issue, but all the reviews are saying how great the
10D is, so obviously something was wrong in this case. I am
affended by the two posters that have tried to say I am a troll. I
feel sorry for them as I think they are insecure people and are the
type to critisize rather than offer help. Aslo they either don't
think before they post or are two lazy to do some research before
they make their false accusations. At this point it would not
matter if I was the President of Canon they would still insult me.

If you check my posts from the last few weeks I have been inquiring
into the D100 vs. the 10D and mostly questions of the 10D. I have
been doing this too learn more about the 10D as I have read it is
the best in it's price range. So I tried to compare the two cameras
and was unable to do so, becuase of a focus problem. I have no
doubt that the 10D is an excellent camera. However I have been
following the posts and there have been many concerns about the AF
of the 10D and many people telling those people they are wrong.

So when I tried the camera for my self and with the help of the
sales staff, and still we could not get the focus to work right,
and on two cameras. Well then I am thinking there is a focus issue.
So I am discussing it further here. I still like the 10D I am just
frustrated and dissapointed by todays activity. In any case I thank
those that have given positive suggestions. Greg N

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[johnd1]

I had my D100 and gear stolen and I have been bouncing back and
forth between the D100 and the 10D, not to mention thinking about
the D2H. I have been reading all the forum info on the 10D and all
the reviews. Every online review has rated the 10D as the better
buy and better camera. So I read all the foums, there was a lot in
the canon forum about problems with focusing, but then a lot of
people saying people didn't know how to use their camera and it was
just a few cameras. I had two well known posters who have both
cameras e-mail me their take, both suggested the Af focusing and
low light abilities of the D100 over the less noise better picture
10d. Well I was still considering the 10D cause all the online
reviews were so pro for it. I took a flash card into the big camera
store in my area, along with some objects to photograph for
comparing the two. One object i took was a blue plastic comb, I
wanted to see just how much better these out of camera 10D pictures
were. We set the cameras to Jpeg fine and auto and the same or as
close to lenses, and everything as equal as possible. Took some
pics with the nikon then put the card in the 10D and took some
pics. I noticed the comb would not focus clearly like the D100 just
did, the teeth just sort of blurred or blended together. The sales
rep looked and noticed the same problem, he said we were using
cheaper lenses so that could be the trouble. He put on the 16-35, a
good lens, and still the same focus trouble. So then he got another
10D and we tried it, still the same thing. The picture was
basically clear but the focus was a little off and very noticeable
difference on the comb teeth from the Nikon. I could tell the sales
person was getting a little frustrated so he said I should just get
the D100 again. So out of two 10D's at this camera store both had
focus trouble. I think that is pretty high numbers. Listening to
some of the people on the Canon forum chastising members who are
concerned about their 10D focus for asking or complaining, well
maybe you should take another look. cause there does seem to be a
problem. If you got a good 10D then good for you, but don't diss
those that didn't. It would seem that Canon, and I am sure Nikon as
well, makes sure they send a good focusing 10d to the reviewers,
but does not take the same care with the ones they sell to the
general public. I know you can send the camera and lens into Nikon
for focus alighnment, but i do not think that is acceptable for a
camera of this value. I am not a troll, I am just a consumer who
wants a good digital DSL. I think it is great that Canon came out
with the better, cheaper, stronger 10D, but I think they should
have been more careful to get it right. Right now I am neither a
Nikon owner or a Canon DSL owner, just a concerned potential
consumer.

--
Steve
D60
Sony 707
L fever high

 

[DavidP #28649]

But we want to know the answer! Even those that say they're tired of the AF threads. LOL. I promise they want to know.

I doubt the D2H is going to be cheap.

How much Nikon glass do you have? If a lot, switching to Canon will be difficult (at least it would be for me).

Even if the two cameras in that store happen to both have a focus calibration issue, I'm sure you can find one that doesn't. Does the store have any MORE of them?

If I had a store and I verified that two of the bodies in stock (selected randomly) had this AF calibration issue (note: we're still not certain that's what the problem is here), I'd be worried about the rest of my stock. I'd be testing them, too, before selling them.

Whatever your decision, happy shooting!

thank you for your post. You are right I am really wanting the
canon, unless the D2H is really cheap, not likely. funny you say
that, both Nikon guys that I e-mailed for comparing views, that
have both cameras, both said they felt I really just want the 10D
so just get it. I think I will try to go back Tuesday, Holiday on
Monday. though I think I will just e-mail the photo's to a few,
don't want to go through the whole post like this again

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DougH]

Your results don't sound like a focussing problem. If it were a focussing problem, then some of the teeth should have been clearly in focus, but you are saying that none are.

This sounds like the expected softer image that Canon DSLRs produce. Did you take the photos home and process them on your PC and apply some USM?
--

 

[Theo Lumens]

Here's another from the Fuji camp jumping in the pool. Silly.

I have owned cameras from 7 brands. Among them Fuji, Canon, Nikon.

So what. I mostly use the S2pro now. So what.

Get back in you box.

Theo

 

[greg n]

My D100 was stolen with my Lowepro pack and most of my gear, so right now I have no investment committment to either Nikon or Canon. That is why I have so stuck on trying the 10D. Anyone thinking of trying the prosumer DSL's would be hard pressed to avoid reading all the shining reviews of the 10D, You have to consider it. So I am in similar boat, only difference is I have owned the D100, which I thought was a great camera. However like I said seeing all the great reviews of the 10D, well it's only natural to be interested. I was surprised to find out how many D100 people own both, and in that case you need two whole systems. I will try to get the pictures again.

I doubt the D2H is going to be cheap.

How much Nikon glass do you have? If a lot, switching to Canon
will be difficult (at least it would be for me).

Even if the two cameras in that store happen to both have a focus
calibration issue, I'm sure you can find one that doesn't. Does
the store have any MORE of them?

If I had a store and I verified that two of the bodies in stock
(selected randomly) had this AF calibration issue (note: we're
still not certain that's what the problem is here), I'd be worried
about the rest of my stock. I'd be testing them, too, before
selling them.

Whatever your decision, happy shooting!

thank you for your post. You are right I am really wanting the
canon, unless the D2H is really cheap, not likely. funny you say
that, both Nikon guys that I e-mailed for comparing views, that
have both cameras, both said they felt I really just want the 10D
so just get it. I think I will try to go back Tuesday, Holiday on
Monday. though I think I will just e-mail the photo's to a few,
don't want to go through the whole post like this again

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Olga Johnson]

Here's another from the Fuji camp jumping in the pool. Silly.

I have owned cameras from 7 brands. Among them Fuji, Canon, Nikon.

So what. I mostly use the S2pro now. So what.

Get back in you box.

Theo

 

[HZA]

Somebody probably has alread requested this greg, (long message thread), but since you used your compact flash to do the comb test, can you post the results from the Nikon D100/Canon 10D that caused you such headaches?

-hza

----------------
http://hza.pgbco.com