Kevin Bjorke32030
Leading Member
550EX on-camera uses the manual power settings -- but not when triggered via wireless ST-E2
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G1 manual flash problems - a summary
- Thread starter JC46960
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Kevin, The Olympus 3040 looks good, but the batteries man, the batteries, 40 / 50 pictures of stamina only, compared to 200 + (150+) witg the G1...
Are you still a G1 hater, after some afterthoughts, maybe?
yours,
Anders H.
Are you still a G1 hater, after some afterthoughts, maybe?
yours,
Anders H.
Serendipity, really. I was running some more tests and happened to set the subject up a little further away from the camera than usual. I wanted a full frame subject, so I zoomed the camera. The exposure was dead on. I zoomed out a little, and it was over exposed again.
This is the way it should work. The only EX series flash I own is the 380EX, which has no manual controls. When any camera is in manual mode, it should just tell the flash when to fire - not how much light it should produce. The settings on the flash (if available) tell the flash how much light to produce. There are no such settings on the 380EX, so it always fires at full power when the camera is in manual mode.
I hope that answered your question.
Peter T44178
Senior Member
This problem apparently did not exist with the original firmware.
While it is related to zoom, MY G1 over exposes 3 stops at full wide and over exposes 2 stops at full tele on f5.6 & 1/125 setting. I guess mine is a little unluckier that J.C.'s
Serendipity, really. I was running some more tests and happened to
set the subject up a little further away from the camera than
usual. I wanted a full frame subject, so I zoomed the camera. The
exposure was dead on. I zoomed out a little, and it was over
exposed again.
This is the way it should work. The only EX series flash I own is
the 380EX, which has no manual controls. When any camera is in
manual mode, it should just tell the flash when to fire - not
how much light it should produce. The settings on the flash (if
available) tell the flash how much light to produce. There are no
such settings on the 380EX, so it always fires at full power when
the camera is in manual mode.
I hope that answered your question.
A good picture doesn't prove anything. Even with a badly behaved camera I can compensate my flash setting and get the result through trial and error. But that is NOT photography.
Michael
Michael
Peter, I took the plunge!
I covered that internal flash with neatly trimmed black electrician tape (doesn't look bad at all), plug in a modified hotshoe to PC adapter, mount the flash on a bracket (or tripod) and connect through PC synch. The black tape seems to obsorb the radiated heat pretty well, but I really don't care if that internal flash blows. I asked a camera shop man to "take out the bulb", but he said there wasn't a "bulb" and he might have to cut the wires -- forget that route. The guy also said it was very unlikely if the rest of the camera would be affected if the internal flash blew. A little clunky for portable use, but not any worse than any digicam w/o a shoe and I don't need this setup for outdoor.
For outdoor fill I just put my Sunpak 383 directly on the shoe as normal and use Av / Tv -- works quite fine as well.
I'm reasonably comfortable with this workaround. But unless Canon corrects the problem, this G1 will be the last Canon cam I ever own.
A lot of work to reach this point, but I feel better this way than buying a 550EX and reward Canon for screwing it up. This also allows me to use studio light if I ever want to get into that.
Michael
I covered that internal flash with neatly trimmed black electrician tape (doesn't look bad at all), plug in a modified hotshoe to PC adapter, mount the flash on a bracket (or tripod) and connect through PC synch. The black tape seems to obsorb the radiated heat pretty well, but I really don't care if that internal flash blows. I asked a camera shop man to "take out the bulb", but he said there wasn't a "bulb" and he might have to cut the wires -- forget that route. The guy also said it was very unlikely if the rest of the camera would be affected if the internal flash blew. A little clunky for portable use, but not any worse than any digicam w/o a shoe and I don't need this setup for outdoor.
For outdoor fill I just put my Sunpak 383 directly on the shoe as normal and use Av / Tv -- works quite fine as well.
I'm reasonably comfortable with this workaround. But unless Canon corrects the problem, this G1 will be the last Canon cam I ever own.
A lot of work to reach this point, but I feel better this way than buying a 550EX and reward Canon for screwing it up. This also allows me to use studio light if I ever want to get into that.
Michael
Peter T44178
Senior Member
So how did you modify the hotshoe adapter? I'm puzzled as to why this works.
I only know it works, God knows why. I'll post the picture of the modified adapter when I have a chance, maybe tonight.
Peter, I tried to take a picture of the modified adapter but the details don't show very well. It's easy enough to explain, though.
Note that there is a metal clip under each side of the shoe. Under the right hand (looking from behind the camera) clip there is a tiny switch. The clip and that switch that gets pressed down as you slide in a flash or adapter.
The trick is to trim off most of the adapter's right hand foot so that as it slides in the metal clip does not get pressed down. You'll need to keep just a little bit of the foot for retention (about 3/16 inch). This way the camera doesn't even know the external flash is there. I guess in this case the G1, intentional or not, simply closes the trigger exactly the same time it fires the internal flash.
The adapter has a metal clip on each foot, so you will need to disassemble the bottom plate, chop off the right hand side portion of the metal clip (a wire cutter will do), reassemble the bottom plate, then trim off the unwanted part of the bottom plate using a sharp utility knife. It's easier than to trim the bottom plate while it's loose. If you can turn on the internal flash with the adapter in place then you have it done right, if not just trim some more.
Now cover that internal flash with black electrician tape and you're in business. A little of light will go through the tape, but it'd be too weak to affect exposure (my estimate is GN = 1 ft at ISO 50).
I ran tests on all aperture settings at 1/250 and 1/10 in total darkness, the results are identical. I also ran spot checks at other speeds and all came out OK... it works!
No more testing for me, just photography from now on.
Note that there is a metal clip under each side of the shoe. Under the right hand (looking from behind the camera) clip there is a tiny switch. The clip and that switch that gets pressed down as you slide in a flash or adapter.
The trick is to trim off most of the adapter's right hand foot so that as it slides in the metal clip does not get pressed down. You'll need to keep just a little bit of the foot for retention (about 3/16 inch). This way the camera doesn't even know the external flash is there. I guess in this case the G1, intentional or not, simply closes the trigger exactly the same time it fires the internal flash.
The adapter has a metal clip on each foot, so you will need to disassemble the bottom plate, chop off the right hand side portion of the metal clip (a wire cutter will do), reassemble the bottom plate, then trim off the unwanted part of the bottom plate using a sharp utility knife. It's easier than to trim the bottom plate while it's loose. If you can turn on the internal flash with the adapter in place then you have it done right, if not just trim some more.
Now cover that internal flash with black electrician tape and you're in business. A little of light will go through the tape, but it'd be too weak to affect exposure (my estimate is GN = 1 ft at ISO 50).
I ran tests on all aperture settings at 1/250 and 1/10 in total darkness, the results are identical. I also ran spot checks at other speeds and all came out OK... it works!
No more testing for me, just photography from now on.
Peter T44178
Senior Member
Congratulations Michael, that's quite clever.
The biggest annoyance I have have with using the internal flash to trigger is that it recharges much more slowly than my external flash and it wears the battery down a lot quicker. But at least it works.
The biggest annoyance I have have with using the internal flash to trigger is that it recharges much more slowly than my external flash and it wears the battery down a lot quicker. But at least it works.
I updated my web page with all the details (in the "Conclusion" section). So, see that page for the details.
http://home.nc.rr.com/bagleyhome/Digital%20Photography.htm
To summarize, I got the camera back from Canon, and can see no change. I still have the problem. I called them back and spoke to a technician. He was very patient and, after 15 minutes of explanation, I believe he correctly understands the problem. He is trying to verify the problem on another G1 now. He'll contact me with more information when he has it.
I'll post another update when I hear back from him.
J. C.
http://home.nc.rr.com/bagleyhome/Digital%20Photography.htm
To summarize, I got the camera back from Canon, and can see no change. I still have the problem. I called them back and spoke to a technician. He was very patient and, after 15 minutes of explanation, I believe he correctly understands the problem. He is trying to verify the problem on another G1 now. He'll contact me with more information when he has it.
I'll post another update when I hear back from him.
J. C.
Peter T44178
Senior Member
I assume you were talking to the technician only about problems with your Canon flash, right?
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. The problem is not with my Canon flash, the problem is with my G1. So, I talked with the technician "about problems with my G1". As many of us know (you included), my problem is not related to flash manufacturer. So, I did not pose the problem as a "problem with my Canon flash". Taking your question literally, the answer is, "No, I did not talk to the technician only about problems with my Canon flash."
However, I think what you're asking is whether I told the technician that the problem is specific to Canon flashes. I don't really want to use Canon flashes for my purposes, so, No, I did not tell the technician that the problem is Canon flash specific. We all know that the problem is with the G1 regardless of what flash is used. If they fix it for Canon flashes, it will be fixed for all flashes. At least that is my opinion for my specific problem.
In a nutshell, I asked the technician if he has access to the internet (he does), so I told him I have my tests detail on my web site. I verbally explained the tests, but suggested he read for himself. He said he would. That's where we left off.
J. C.
Peter T44178
Senior Member
Yes, I realize the problem is with the camera. Most of us here who are concerned about the problem have third party flash. You are the only person I'm aware of who also has a problem with Canon flash.
Those of us who have contacted Canon can not get them to even listen to us because a third party flash is involved. So I'm assuming that you either got lucky or they are listening to you because it involves Canon flash.
Those of us who have contacted Canon can not get them to even listen to us because a third party flash is involved. So I'm assuming that you either got lucky or they are listening to you because it involves Canon flash.
It will be interesting to see if that is actually the case. I don't understand why you seem to be the only person having problems with Canon flash.
Hi Peter,
I'm curious, have you run tests with the Canon flashes or do you only own third pary flashes?? One main difference with my tests may be that I'm using the hot shoe adapter, cord 300 and off-camera shoe adapter. If I put the Canon flash on the camera and run my tests, there are no problems. I would bet that there would not be a problem with the off-camera shoe cord 2 (OCSC2), either. The OCSC2 is designed to preserve E-TTL. Therefore, it has extra electronics that the adpaters and normal cords don't have. My guess would be that those who don't have the problem with manual flash tests on the G1 are testing using a system (on-camera or OCSC2) that is capable of preserving E-TTL.
This is just a theory, though. I don't own the OCSC2, so I can't run tests with that.
For those of you who have run manual falsh tests using the Canon flashes, did you take the flash off-camera?? If so, what cord did you use???
J. C.
Peter T44178
Senior Member
I don't have Canon flash. Yes, I'm sure it is the hot shoe adapter.
I'm very interested in seeing how Canon handles this. If you do get this resolved, I guess the rest of us will have to lie and tell Canon that we are using a Canon flash with a hot shoe adapter. I guess that this is a software problem though and will require a firmware update.
Kevin B. has documented that ST-2 remote transmiter + 550EX don't work at all in manual mode, even though the ST-2 is suppose to fully support E-TTL. Someone else from this board (I can't remember) said Canon told him that the G1 is not intended to support remote trigger.
Until Canon specifically says something about non-Canon flash support in their firmware update announcement, don't update your firmware.
Michael
Until Canon specifically says something about non-Canon flash support in their firmware update announcement, don't update your firmware.
Michael
Peter T44178
Senior Member
I've always been puzzled by people calling this a wide-angle problem. I get the problem at all focal lengths.
Because Kevin named it so, and I think he was the first to officially documented it here.
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