Too much shutter lag with digital rebel............

[PaulyOly]

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing my mind. I spent 4 hours yesterday shooting osprey inflight shots and almost every shot of the bird flying towards me was slightly out of focus. If he was flying parallel to me then it was sharp. My camera/lens might be backfocusing sligtly as well since it seems if it's flying away from me they tend to be sharper.

heres' the best shot flying towards me from today.



now here's one of the bird flying parallel to me.



kind of hard to tell with these processed pics, i'll follow this up with some unprocessed 100% crops.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 

[PaulyOly]

heres' crops from the two pics above.





the shutter speed are of course very different, but most of my shots against the blue sky when the bird was flying towards me were very oof and i didn't save them, seemed to be worse the closer the bird got, i can only assume this is from shutter lag unless someone knows different.

Does anyone know the actual shutter lag time of the rebel compared to say the new 1d mk II, i might stop buying glass and save for that $5,000 monster, would i see a significant difference though.

 

[Anthony Congiano]

Hi,

I dont' have a reader here at work so... can you post the shutter speed and the F stops for the images?

You have to insure a high shutter speed to stop the action but, you also have to have a narrow F stop (high F stop number) in keep the subject in focus as it moves toward you.

There really isn't much (if any at all) shutter lag however, time does pass as the camera's focus locks to when you hit the shutter. If the focus locks on the bird, then you hit the shutter but... the bird is moving toward you, you could be snapping the image as the bird has moved out of the ideal depth of field range.

Anthony
http://www.congiano.com

 

[Daniella68313]

yes there is. When I shot this photo, I pressed the shutter button before the bird took the pose. As I saw it take that pose I was cursing saying "too soon!" but then when I saw the photo, I got the pose! Yes there must some lag because I pressed the shutter just before before the bird took the pose. maybe 1/2s not sure before. In that case the shutter lag was a good thing..some other times I simply lost the pose I wanted and attibuted it to my slow reflexes..not sure anymore. So when I got the shot that I thought I woudl not get because I pressed the shutter too soon...that was a confirmation for me that there is a shutter lag.

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most
non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing
my mind. I spent 4 hours yesterday shooting osprey inflight shots
and almost every shot of the bird flying towards me was slightly
out of focus. If he was flying parallel to me then it was sharp.
My camera/lens might be backfocusing sligtly as well since it seems
if it's flying away from me they tend to be sharper.

heres' the best shot flying towards me from today.



now here's one of the bird flying parallel to me.



kind of hard to tell with these processed pics, i'll follow this up
with some unprocessed 100% crops.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

Those are really awesome!

did you use a TC with your 400mm lens for those phoos?

 

[Justme]

I notice lag (just a bit) too (think it was while taking my squirrel pics) but I just excused it by telling myself it's not a 1D. Still, it's waaaaay faster than any (haven't tried that many) non DSLR digicam I've used.

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most
non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing
my mind. I spent 4 hours yesterday shooting osprey inflight shots
and almost every shot of the bird flying towards me was slightly
out of focus. If he was flying parallel to me then it was sharp.
My camera/lens might be backfocusing sligtly as well since it seems
if it's flying away from me they tend to be sharper.

heres' the best shot flying towards me from today.



now here's one of the bird flying parallel to me.



kind of hard to tell with these processed pics, i'll follow this up
with some unprocessed 100% crops.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

--
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/digital_rebel_2
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/the_adventure_of_squirrels
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/cabot_trail__cape_breton

 

[Justme]

Four hours shooting Osprey in flight. How fortunate are you? You got some really up close shots there. I get red tail hawk shots that fill up an unimpressive 1/80th or so of the sensor capacity. It doesn't help that it's only that size because I'm using the Tamron 1.4x TC at the 300mm end.

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most
non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing
my mind. I spent 4 hours yesterday shooting osprey inflight shots
and almost every shot of the bird flying towards me was slightly
out of focus. If he was flying parallel to me then it was sharp.
My camera/lens might be backfocusing sligtly as well since it seems
if it's flying away from me they tend to be sharper.

heres' the best shot flying towards me from today.



now here's one of the bird flying parallel to me.



kind of hard to tell with these processed pics, i'll follow this up
with some unprocessed 100% crops.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/digital_rebel_2
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/the_adventure_of_squirrels
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/cabot_trail__cape_breton

 

[PaulyOly]

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, i'm talking about the time between hearing the beep and the camera recording the picture or the time between focus lock and the camera recording the picture. I would assume on a camera with zero shutter lag i should be able to take a pic of a car coming straight at me and it be sharp assuming my shutter speed was fast enough.

Daniella, please delete my pics in your post if you add a pic, i have to wait forever if there are to many pics in the same post, you should really delete them anyway, but i also forget to do this.

Nice pie-billed grebe by the way, i love those birds.

 

[PaulyOly]

I'm talking the time it takes the camera to record the image after you hear the beeps, i do not prefocus, i push the shutton all the way down the first time so if there were no shutter lag then there should be no oof due to the bird moving towards me, as for motion blur the oof pics of the bird coming straight at me would not have any motion except forward motion and i was shooting on a tripod, of course there would be slight motion up and down, but nothing significant. I wish i had saved some of the bad ones as they were shot with very high shutter speeds.

heres' the exif for both pics.

osprey coming at me.

Focal Length 400 mm
Exposure Time 1/640 sec
Aperture f/7.1
ISO Equivalent 200

osprey parallel to me.

Focal Length 400 mm
Exposure Time 1/1600 sec
Aperture f/8
ISO Equivalent 200

like i said i realize that the shutter speeds are greatly different, i shot over 300 pics and almost every shot of the bird flying towards me was signifcantly less sharp than the bird flying parallel to me regardless of shutter speed. So shutter lag has got to be the culprit.

Hi,

I dont' have a reader here at work so... can you post the shutter
speed and the F stops for the images?

You have to insure a high shutter speed to stop the action but, you
also have to have a narrow F stop (high F stop number) in keep the
subject in focus as it moves toward you.

There really isn't much (if any at all) shutter lag however, time
does pass as the camera's focus locks to when you hit the shutter.
If the focus locks on the bird, then you hit the shutter but... the
bird is moving toward you, you could be snapping the image as the
bird has moved out of the ideal depth of field range.

Anthony
http://www.congiano.com

--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 

[Hawkman]

Hi Paul,

The blur is due to the low shutter speed, 1/640s is too slow for a burd in flight. The parallel shot was at 1/1600 s, fast enough for the in flight shot.

Gene

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most
non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing
my mind. I spent 4 hours yesterday shooting osprey inflight shots
and almost every shot of the bird flying towards me was slightly
out of focus. If he was flying parallel to me then it was sharp.
My camera/lens might be backfocusing sligtly as well since it seems
if it's flying away from me they tend to be sharper.

heres' the best shot flying towards me from today.



now here's one of the bird flying parallel to me.



kind of hard to tell with these processed pics, i'll follow this up
with some unprocessed 100% crops.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

 

[PaulyOly]

Those are really awesome!

did you use a TC with your 400mm lens for those phoos?

No TC

here is vizual groove (George) shooting with the canon 200 f1.8L and 10d, i'm sure he is on the 10d forum. i wish i had a 200mm as a lot of my shots i cut off parts of the bird, your 300mm would be just fine. you can get very close to the osprey here, they come to the dam because of all the fish that collect there.



--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 

[Daniella68313]

I define shutter lag as the time between the shutter button is pressed (once focus is locked of course) and the time the shutter open and the sensor see the image.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, i'm talking
about the time between hearing the beep

what beep? you mean the focus lock confirmation? I always half press first until I get a focus lock so in my case that is not even in the picture

and the camera recording

the picture or the time between focus lock and the camera recording
the picture. I would assume on a camera with zero shutter lag i
should be able to take a pic of a car coming straight at me and it
be sharp assuming my shutter speed was fast enough.

Daniella, please delete my pics in your post if you add a pic, i
have to wait forever if there are to many pics in the same post,
you should really delete them anyway, but i also forget to do this.

yes you're 1000% right..I hit myself each time but keep forgetting to delete them

Maybe we can do some test about this? take note of an event while you release the shutter button after a focus lock and see if the pic correcpond to that.

I was thinking of putting the camera on a tripod and having someone wave arm in front, then press the shutter at a specific pose and see how much difference there is.

 

[banzai]

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely a reaction time for the camera (I think Phil includes this in his reviews), but I don't think it's any slower than an equivalent film SLR. When I shoot gymnastics I've learned the timing of the camera's shutter so it's second nature for me to time shots on leaps and release moves.

I think the term "shutter lag" is usually used for the rather long lag between shutter and shot on digital point-and-shoots (easily 200ms or more). Whereas I think SLRs start in the 80ms or faster range. Totally guessing on those numbers from memory.

I'd be more inclined to blame a bit of that reaction time combined with some AF inaccuracy. I find my 300D to be rather generous about what it "thinks" is in focus vs what is really in focus - especially at telephoto ranges.

May also be that when the bird is flying parallel, it's giving the AF sensor a broader, more easily identified target upon which to focus. Whereas the head-on shot could very likely be more difficult for the sensor to cope with. That too would influence AF accuracy.

I feel your pain though. I took some shots at the LA Marathon on Sunday with the runners coming towards camera. Almost all of them were out of focus, even though I shuttered as fast as I could (AF lock and shutter all in one motion).

 

[PaulyOly]

Hi Paul,

The blur is due to the low shutter speed, 1/640s is too slow for a
burd in flight. The parallel shot was at 1/1600 s, fast enough for
the in flight shot.

Gene

I realize the shutter speed is slow on that shot, but on other shots that were much worse the shutter speed was 1600 or faster and i still got oof birds compared to parallel shots, i wish now i had saved some of them, like i said i shot over 300 pics and everything coming at me was slightly oof compared to other shots at similar shutter speeds.

does anyone know the actual shutter lag time?

I will search some of my pics and see if i can find some at comparable shutter speeds or i will go shoot tommorrow and repost some better examples.

 

[PaulyOly]

I'm talking about the focus lock beep, so we are talking about the same thing, i don't wait for a focus lock beep, i just push the button, i have the picture fairly well infocus from prefocusing and then start pushing the button as i've stated before, so it's either miss focus or shutter lag, i'm thinking shutter lag, so what is the shutter lag time on the rebel?

 

[Hawkman]

Yes, if you could post an example at a higher (faster than 1/1500) shutter speed. If it were a lag problem, then I would expect some part of the bird, further back, would be in the focal plane. If it is motion blur, or perhaps AF difficulty in AI mode (is that what you are using?) then everything on the bird would be blurry.

Do you take several shots in sequence? Are they all blurrry?

Gene

Hi Paul,

The blur is due to the low shutter speed, 1/640s is too slow for a
burd in flight. The parallel shot was at 1/1600 s, fast enough for
the in flight shot.

Gene

I realize the shutter speed is slow on that shot, but on other
shots that were much worse the shutter speed was 1600 or faster and
i still got oof birds compared to parallel shots, i wish now i had
saved some of them, like i said i shot over 300 pics and everything
coming at me was slightly oof compared to other shots at similar
shutter speeds.

does anyone know the actual shutter lag time?

I will search some of my pics and see if i can find some at
comparable shutter speeds or i will go shoot tommorrow and repost
some better examples.

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

 

[PaulyOly]

I spent some time talking to Trimoon also from these forums, he was there with a 100-400L and a D60, nice guy. Yes i consider myself fortunate to have such a great place to photograph osprey, they fly here all day long, must have been atleast 30 in the air at one time. I tried his camera and i must say the shutter button is much more responsive on the d60, i need to try the 10d now.

 

[banzai]

... can't find the reported speed of the DRebel's shutter release lag. Needless to say, it will be slower than the 1Ds' 55ms!

 

[Daniella68313]

cool He should have really nice bokeh with that lens. My lens does not have a tripod mount and to get one cost 109$ so I'll skip it at least for now. but it should be better for me to use a monopod.

Do you handhold yours?

where do you live exactly? Here I have a hard time getting anywhere near those osprey. They drive me nuts because people walk near them without camera and they don't fly away..as soon as I try to get close with my camera they fly away. I hope they will like the color of the L lens better..maybe they think that a black thing is a gun? not sure

 

[PaulyOly]

Do you take several shots in sequence? Are they all blurrry?

Gene

Hi Paul,

The blur is due to the low shutter speed, 1/640s is too slow for a
burd in flight. The parallel shot was at 1/1600 s, fast enough for
the in flight shot.

Gene

I realize the shutter speed is slow on that shot, but on other
shots that were much worse the shutter speed was 1600 or faster and
i still got oof birds compared to parallel shots, i wish now i had
saved some of them, like i said i shot over 300 pics and everything
coming at me was slightly oof compared to other shots at similar
shutter speeds.

does anyone know the actual shutter lag time?

I will search some of my pics and see if i can find some at
comparable shutter speeds or i will go shoot tommorrow and repost
some better examples.

Yes Ai focus, single shot, i tried some in sports mode using AI servo, but it wasn't any better, actually found it worse for tracking the birds unless there were against the sky. I'll have to check my harddrive tommorrow, i've got to go to bed. I do not take several shots in sequence without refocusing, they would surely be out of focus after the first shot, i'm not prefocusing either, i push the shutter button fully with the center focus point over the bird. Does anyone know the actual lag time? How about for the 10d?