How do fuji get away with it??

[woz]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity) would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

 

[ssab]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

I'm not sure the car analogy is a good one. There have been plenty of car manufacturers that have had product faults in new models that haven't owned up untill they were really pushed into it. At least the Fuji cams don't have any faults that can cause death or serious injury as far as I know so far.

 

[Ed167868]

Dude, calm down and take out the CF card while it's not in use...

Not a big deal. Get over it or sell your camera.

 

[BigWaveDave]

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

They specifically state what they guarantee to work in the S7000: xD and Microdrive. It's nothing new. With the 602, it was SmartMedia and Microdrive. When you try to use something else, whether it be CF Type I or a slice of baloney, you simply take your chances.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

Oh c'mon. Fuji can't possibly be expected to test every CF card made and put out advisories as to what CF cards are troublesome. New cards are introduced all year round.

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

I suspect you're wrong.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

With what?

--
BigWaveDave

 

[RJNedimyer]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

I read your other post and here are some thoughts; although I am sympathetic to your situation I'm not sure anything can or will be done.

REREAD THE REPLY!
NO! FUJI DID NOT ADMIT "THEY" HAVE A PROBLEM !

1. Fuji does not reccommend CF.

2. If some CF cards cause problems and you use them against Fuji's advise you are at fault. It also sounds to me that you should be hounding Sandisk or whoever's brand you bought from for what appears to be non-standard wiring for lack of a better term.

3. Fuji, Nikon, Canon, etc are NOT WESTERN Companies but Asain manufactureres and we have had many tell us that they do not even consider the end buyer (us) to be their customer but their customers are the people we buy from. ANYTHING they do to please us is simply their being nice and good public relations, so being nice is probably a very good idea. And they will make sure their lawyers will be better than your lawyers.

Yeah right!!! Good example! You could have NOT picked a worse car manufacturer. Ford is so bright that they used to presurize the Gasoline tanks in Ambulances and they frequently Blew gasoline out ther relief valve over 20 feet straight out of the cap. It was worse in warm weather. Several ambulances blew up. It took years till they fixed the problem by blaiming the ambulance remanugacturers for following their guidlines. Finally they soved the problem by eliminating all future gasoline powered ambulances and requiring Desiel engines.

--
Ray
RJNedimyer

 

[andii352]

I agree with an earlier post - I would be chasing SANdisk, etc rather than Fuji (...and not with the threat of lawyers, that's just silly...)

Lawyer jokes anyone!? (I think I hear an ambulance chasing lawyer somewhere). sorry - I have a sense of humour (I hope you also do)...

grins and kind regards,
Andy

 

[LuluPie]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

--

Move over Rover and let Jimi take over you're waisting bandwidth. Stop spanking the monkey it's dead.
Larry.
LuluPie

 

[draghkar]

As others pointed out, Fuji doesn't recommend CF cards. On the bottom of the box, it says:

"Slot 2:Microdrive (Some CompactFlash cards may not work properly)"

In the manual, it talks about xD and Microdrive only. They could clearly point out that the fault goes to you and I, the consumer, for not looking at the box or reading the manual. I, like others, assumed that a CF slot was a CF slot, and didn't bother looking at the box or the manual BEFORE I purchased it. I was lucky, because (even though the packaging went out on Tday cleanup), the BestBuy guys were shocked when I pointed this out. They didn't know either, and refunded me on my 512 Sandisk, and will point out the fact to their next customer (hopefully). Also, BestBuy (and other retailers, I'm sure) don't know 'cause they don't sell ANY memory compatable with the CF slot.

If you would like to draw parallels to the automotive industry, My feeling would be that it's more like saying you need High Octane fuel, or performance will suffer. It's more expensive, yeah, just like xD cards.

I don't think anyone really knows if this is something built in for a reason, or if it's an oversight, or just something they noticed during final testing, or what. Whatever the reason, while it is certainly a pain, it's the way it is, and I really don't believe they tried to hide it...that being said, they certainly didn't ensure that all parties absolutely knew before hand either. Anyway, I have the cam, I really like it, and if traded it on a Nikon, Sony, Minolta, well, there's just some other idiosynchracies I would have to deal with. I think it's time we all either get xDs, or lexar/ridata/microdrives for our 7000s CF slots and just start shooting.

 

[Colorado2718]

While agree that fuji doesn't recommend CF cards, I certainly have a different opinion about "I really don't believe they tried to hide it". There's no way to prove who's correct in this opinion, so I choose not to debate it any further.

I bought my S7000, after reading a number of comments that CF works. I did take a chance and as it turns out I lost. I only found out about the problems after my purchase. Cost was probably 1/2 the decision for me in what camera to buy and if I knew that I would have to replace my existing CF media with xD media, I might have made a different decision.

My biggest gripe with Fuji is their slow and vague responses that don't really answer what's going on and what the root cause of the problem is. I learn more in this forum than I do directly from Fuji. I believe in good technical support and the shame is that good support is disappearing (and not just from Fuji).

Knowing what the root problem is, is mostly important to me because if SanDisk is violating the CF specification, this might allow me to have some recourse with them. SanDisk is not being any more responsive in volunteering information on what the real problem is either.

Paul

As others pointed out, Fuji doesn't recommend CF cards. On the
bottom of the box, it says:

"Slot 2:Microdrive (Some CompactFlash cards may not work properly)"

In the manual, it talks about xD and Microdrive only. They could
clearly point out that the fault goes to you and I, the consumer,
for not looking at the box or reading the manual. I, like others,
assumed that a CF slot was a CF slot, and didn't bother looking at
the box or the manual BEFORE I purchased it. I was lucky, because
(even though the packaging went out on Tday cleanup), the BestBuy
guys were shocked when I pointed this out. They didn't know either,
and refunded me on my 512 Sandisk, and will point out the fact to
their next customer (hopefully). Also, BestBuy (and other
retailers, I'm sure) don't know 'cause they don't sell ANY memory
compatable with the CF slot.

If you would like to draw parallels to the automotive industry, My
feeling would be that it's more like saying you need High Octane
fuel, or performance will suffer. It's more expensive, yeah, just
like xD cards.

I don't think anyone really knows if this is something built in
for a reason, or if it's an oversight, or just something they
noticed during final testing, or what. Whatever the reason, while
it is certainly a pain, it's the way it is, and I really don't
believe they tried to hide it...that being said, they certainly
didn't ensure that all parties absolutely knew before hand either.
Anyway, I have the cam, I really like it, and if traded it on a
Nikon, Sony, Minolta, well, there's just some other idiosynchracies
I would have to deal with. I think it's time we all either get xDs,
or lexar/ridata/microdrives for our 7000s CF slots and just start
shooting.

--
Paul D.

 

[alien3333]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

 

[alien3333]

Well,

analogy is easy : if 90% of CF I card work in s7000, then s7000 is not the black sheep.

if 90% of CF I card does not work in s7000, then s7000 is the one to blame.

Ok in linux or even MS windows, can they support all the video card,
or written all the video drivers, OF COZ not, if they can support 90%
of video card in the market, then it is ok for them.

NOW, we should ask Fuji, can you guys better support CF I card made
by Sandisk, the model # is Ultra II .... xyz ...

Will Fuji do it ? In Japanese marketing thinking .... it is a 0% chance that they have a problem. Only if you can prove all 90% of CF I cards fail to work in Fuji, EVEN SO .... FUJI ALREADY KNOW IN FIRST PLACE THE 10% of CF I CARD WONT WORK, SO THEY JUST SAY ONLY SUPPORT CF II AND MICRODRIVE ONLY .... THAT IS SO SMART AND LEGAL TO SAVE THEM FROM BEING SUIT.

Is Sandisk the one to blame ? NO TOO, since they never guarantee

their product work on every device. Therefore they are also safe in legal system. But if they claim "WE SUPPORT ALL THE ISO COMPLIANT DEVICE THAT THEY SAID THEY SUPPORT CF I", then if Fuji S7000 claim that

they can support CF I, SANDISK IS IN DEEP TROUBLE. however, FUJI IS SO SMART TO AVOID the relatioship issue in the first place, even Sandisk is safe now.

Therefore, we are unlucky left behind to avoid that special combination.

Hope all helps, logics is needed for legal system.

alien

will admit their

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

 

[alien3333]

I agree Matt

alien

As others pointed out, Fuji doesn't recommend CF cards. On the
bottom of the box, it says:

"Slot 2:Microdrive (Some CompactFlash cards may not work properly)"

In the manual, it talks about xD and Microdrive only. They could
clearly point out that the fault goes to you and I, the consumer,
for not looking at the box or reading the manual. I, like others,
assumed that a CF slot was a CF slot, and didn't bother looking at
the box or the manual BEFORE I purchased it. I was lucky, because
(even though the packaging went out on Tday cleanup), the BestBuy
guys were shocked when I pointed this out. They didn't know either,
and refunded me on my 512 Sandisk, and will point out the fact to
their next customer (hopefully). Also, BestBuy (and other
retailers, I'm sure) don't know 'cause they don't sell ANY memory
compatable with the CF slot.

If you would like to draw parallels to the automotive industry, My
feeling would be that it's more like saying you need High Octane
fuel, or performance will suffer. It's more expensive, yeah, just
like xD cards.

I don't think anyone really knows if this is something built in
for a reason, or if it's an oversight, or just something they
noticed during final testing, or what. Whatever the reason, while
it is certainly a pain, it's the way it is, and I really don't
believe they tried to hide it...that being said, they certainly
didn't ensure that all parties absolutely knew before hand either.
Anyway, I have the cam, I really like it, and if traded it on a
Nikon, Sony, Minolta, well, there's just some other idiosynchracies
I would have to deal with. I think it's time we all either get xDs,
or lexar/ridata/microdrives for our 7000s CF slots and just start
shooting.

 

[boff180]

re: not saying about it pre-release

they did IF you read the literature.

As others pointed out, Fuji doesn't recommend CF cards. On the
bottom of the box, it says:

"Slot 2:Microdrive (Some CompactFlash cards may not work properly)"

In the manual, it talks about xD and Microdrive only. They could
clearly point out that the fault goes to you and I, the consumer,
for not looking at the box or reading the manual. I, like others,
assumed that a CF slot was a CF slot, and didn't bother looking at
the box or the manual BEFORE I purchased it. I was lucky, because
(even though the packaging went out on Tday cleanup), the BestBuy
guys were shocked when I pointed this out. They didn't know either,
and refunded me on my 512 Sandisk, and will point out the fact to
their next customer (hopefully). Also, BestBuy (and other
retailers, I'm sure) don't know 'cause they don't sell ANY memory
compatable with the CF slot.

If you would like to draw parallels to the automotive industry, My
feeling would be that it's more like saying you need High Octane
fuel, or performance will suffer. It's more expensive, yeah, just
like xD cards.

I don't think anyone really knows if this is something built in
for a reason, or if it's an oversight, or just something they
noticed during final testing, or what. Whatever the reason, while
it is certainly a pain, it's the way it is, and I really don't
believe they tried to hide it...that being said, they certainly
didn't ensure that all parties absolutely knew before hand either.
Anyway, I have the cam, I really like it, and if traded it on a
Nikon, Sony, Minolta, well, there's just some other idiosynchracies
I would have to deal with. I think it's time we all either get xDs,
or lexar/ridata/microdrives for our 7000s CF slots and just start
shooting.

 

[Adam-T]

they get away with it by Stating in black and white what they guarantee will work with the camera - they COULD have made it XD only like the 3000 and 5000! ..

Fuji and Power supply issues go hand in hand, some companies just have problems in certain areas such as Olympus + CA+Noise --- Canon + lousy AF --- Minolta + low rez for the Mp and noise --- Nikon + all sorts of issues depending on camera -- Sony + colour issues and fiddly operation etc etc .. This is why we have to do our homework FIRST before buying.

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 

[ChromeDome]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...

Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

Hi,

I think one of the problems here is that, from as far as I can tell, the 602 claims the same compatability with CF cards as the S7000 ie: none. They both clearly state in the blurb and the manuals that the CFII slot is intended for use with IBM MD's.

The 602 as far as I can gather, had very few problems with any of the CF's out there, type 1 or 2. The main issue, everyone perceived, was to do with the viability of the CF card for Video storage. The MD was originally thought to be the only method to do this reliably. Therefore, as most people are not that interested in Video and of-course there is the old formatting trick to get around it, folk bought allsorts of CF cards and they worked just fine.

The problems come with the S7000 which on paper seemed to have the same spec as the s602. However, anyone upgrading from the 602 or any other CF compatible camera, may find that they have problems with their CF card. My old sandisk 256MB seems to have this drain issue too. It didn't have it on the s602 so now I find that I have a less useable CF card. Who's fault is it? Mine, I bought the CF card for the 602 knowing that the 602 was not qualified for use with that card, I was just lucky.

I write database programs in a 4GL language called "Progress" in it they have a function called "Can-Do" this is designed to check a database bound list of users to ascertain rights to perform whatever activity. This function could also be used in a non conformist manner to check that any value was present in a list of items by providing a list and checking that list for the presence of some value or other. In recent releases of this software language developers have found that the undocumented funcionality no-longer works in certain situations. Is this "Progress Software Corporations'" fault? Of-Course not, they never said that it would do it in the first place - A bit like Fuji!!!

All the best

Greg
--
Every silver lining has a cloud ;-(

 

[Szar]

i have just ordered the Lexar Media 256MB CompactFlash 40x with my Fuji FinePix 7000 (after reading that CFs are a better choice and that they work with S7000 ) It cost about $75 on Digital Foto Club.com

Does anyone use the above CF card with your S 7000. If you dont recommend the card (or the store for that matter!) then please let me know.
I may still have time to change the order.

 

[marty1]

I posted this again to start a new thread as a resopnse to this
thread.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=6874246
fuji having admitted there is a problem...
Fuji's admission without recourse to a fix or compensation is is
totally unacceptable. They need to be threatened with legal action
if they are going to continue treating consumers in this cavalier
manner.
Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm
I suspect litigation (preceeded by massively damaging publicity)
would be almost certain.
So how do fuji get away with it??????

Since this issue should be well known by now to all who research this forum, and the subjuct has been beat up again and again and again.......
1. Accept the fact that there is a power drain with some CF cards.
2. Carry more batteries.
3. Remove the batteries and/or the flash card when not in use.
4. Don't buy the camera.
5. If you have the camera, and you don't like it....... take it back.
6. Take a cold shower, have a drink, and calm down.

 

[MikeBee]

Its like ford putting out a statement to say that certain fuels
evaporate in your fuel tank and you may get in your car and find it
wont start, oh and by the way we won't tell you which fuels or
whether its the car or the fuels that are at fault, so please drain
the tank if you plan on leaving the car for a few days.... hmmmm

More like 'this car runs on unleaded petrol' and you expect it to run on diesel

Mike bee

 

[batty66824]

So, can I say also - ME TOOO, MARTY1!

But, perhaps, Woz has already tried your stage 6b?

Try to be patient, Phil's search hengin' here is ghasping for breath, so it's probably unfair to expect people to have consulted the archives.

Our 4900 users will well remember the feeding frenzy when new or prospective 6900ers flooded this forum with anguished cries of 'AARGH!!' and 'EEEEK!@!', not to mention, 'HELP!!!!!'. Those self-same 6900ers, or at least, those that finally read the manual, and lasted out the course, were bombarded with the same again from strange creatures called putative f602Zbods.

We've even had a 9600 owner jump the gun (The future replacement for the S7000?, unless he is using an 'EPSON' 9600 - in which case, I'm green with envy).

In your list of possible actions, you forgot,

0. RTFM, and search the archives (but see above) before blasting the forum with repetitious complaints, or questions that are covered in the manual - the manual is available for download from any Fuji website, as eny fule no.

7. Admit your mistaken assumption that the manual is wrong, and Change your CF card(s). As Fuji do not recommend their use, you can hardly demand their advice as to which ones will work, or,
8. Use only XD or MD in the S7000, as recommended by Fuji.

However, for those who find themselves in the position of having bought a S7000 and hoped to use, or have also bought, incompatible CF cards, I wouldn't regard your suggestions 1 to 4 as being terribly helpful.

It would be nice if we could suggest gently to Fuji that they would acheive a PR coup, were they to take this problem on-board and initiate (and maintain) a public database of compatible CF cards. It could be done in such a way as being perceived as adding a service to buyers, but my own guess is that they may fear being seen, wrongly, as having caused the problem. Furthermore, the could then be thought as being responsible for the quality control of every cheapskate CF card manufacturer.

I dunno, it must be stage 6b time here, also aswell.

--
batty.

So how do fuji get away with it??????

Since this issue should be well known by now to all who research
this forum, and the subjuct has been beat up again and again and
again.......
1. Accept the fact that there is a power drain with some CF cards.
2. Carry more batteries.
3. Remove the batteries and/or the flash card when not in use.
4. Don't buy the camera.
5. If you have the camera, and you don't like it....... take it back.
6. Take a cold shower, have a drink, and calm down.

 

[TMacaw]

As others pointed out, Fuji doesn't recommend CF cards. On the
bottom of the box, it says:

"Slot 2:Microdrive (Some CompactFlash cards may not work properly)"

In the manual, it talks about xD and Microdrive only. They could
clearly point out that the fault goes to you and I, the consumer,
for not looking at the box or reading the manual. I, like others,
assumed that a CF slot was a CF slot, and didn't bother looking at
the box or the manual BEFORE I purchased it. [snip]

-------------------------------------------

Matt..................I applaud you for finding the note on the botom of the box!...Seriously! Maybe Fuji has a special prize for the first consumer to point this out!

I pulled my box out, put on some reading glasses, and wow.. ...... there it is ! Hey, all you complainers !! ...get out your thick glasses and read the box, ALL OF IT !

I hope this now starts to calm down and we can go back and find some good uses for all these inappropriately acquired CF I cards. Did I say thay politely enough??
TMc