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dSLRs -- no flip out LCDs?

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Tuna Boy

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I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature? How do you take a picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your head to get the right angle?

Tuna
 
The reason that dslr's dont have a flip out lcd is beacuse of the mirror above the sensor
it is a true slr just digital

they way your g3 works is that the image is being projected directly onto the sensor
and then being transmited to an lcd
in a dslr the image is shot through a mirror above to a view finder

but when u push the shutter button the mirror pops up and then actually is the photo exposed
anyone correct me if im wrong
 
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right
shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature?
Click to expand...
Because of the shutter/viewfinder mechanism. The sensor is hidden behind a semi-transparent mirror, which reflects the image into the viewfinder. The AF and metering sensors are under the mirror. No light reaches the sensor until the picture is actually taken.

There are a quite a few reasons for this setup:

+ Lower battery consumption. The camera uses very little power when it's simply on but doing nothing.

+ Brighter viewfinder image. Directing light to the sensor would dim the VF a lot. (Olympus did this with the E-10/E-20, but dropped it for the E-1.)

+ Sensor can't be sampled fast enough for a live preview anyway. (Unlike the small sensors on digicams.)

+ Much faster AF through dedicated AF sensors.
Tuna Boy said:
How do you take a
picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your
head to get the right angle?
Click to expand...
Blind, and take lots of frames. :-)

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Photo lessons: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/lessons/ ]
 
You can't use the LCD as a viewfinder/for framing on an SLR, so a flip-out LCD would be useless. I believe the Olympus E-series might have them, but, although they are SLRs, they use some sort of beamsplitter device to allow light to pass through the mirror through to the sensor. That's right, isn't it?

Zp
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right
shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature? How do you take a
picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your
head to get the right angle?

Tuna
Click to expand...
 
Do you have a live view through the LCD on the 10D? ...like a ... G2/G3/G5? If so, then u could take shots above your head, if u see something on the LCD.
 
Petteri Sulonen said:
Because of the shutter/viewfinder mechanism. The sensor is hidden
behind a semi-transparent mirror, which reflects the image into the
viewfinder. The AF and metering sensors are under the mirror. No
light reaches the sensor until the picture is actually taken.
Click to expand...
The AF system is here. The metering is in the pentaprism above the mirror. The pentaprism splits some of the light off into the metering system, and the rest to your eye.

--
Mostly Full Frame user!

EOS Tree + Nikon Coolscan III
Deef Hurty.
 
For most SLR photographers, being able to shoot photography above one's head is not a very pressing issue. For events where I need to get a higher angle, simply lifting my camera above my head even if I had a swiveling LCD screen would not be an option I would go for very often. Compromises to camera shake, imprecise framing, and haphazard autofocus make this method very endesirable. I just get to a higher position or bring a step ladder.

I guess when you move up to a DSLR, it'll be time to graduate from the haphazard, lucky, over-your-head grab shot.
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right
shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature? How do you take a
picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your
head to get the right angle?

Tuna
Click to expand...
 
you won't miss the G3 a bit.

I have a G2 and a 10D. The viewfinder and the LCD of the G2/3 are so useless compared to a quality (if smaller than 35mm) pentaprism that I can't stand trying to take pictures with the G2.

Bob
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right
shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature? How do you take a
picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your
head to get the right angle?

Tuna
Click to expand...
 
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen.
Click to expand...
Bad news Tuna Boy. On a digital SKR the LCD Monitor is for review only, and can't be used to compose a shot.
 
While the Oly E10 is a true SLR in the sense
of thru the lense viewfinder, as someone else said
here, it uses a beamsplitter in lieu of a flipup mirror.
Result: no mirror shake, continuous sensor and
viewfinder illumination (and thus they provide
a built in viewfinder shutter to block backward
ligth on long exposures), and the ability you are
looking for. The viewfinder does flip out for
over the head use. That works for composition
but you would not be advised to use it for
checking AF. It's too small and dim.

Unfortunately, the only lenses variation is via
screw on adapters that are veiw heavy and
expensive.

Image quality is superb. Right up there with the D60
with a 28-135IS. But not close to primes and maybe
a ways off from L glass as well. At least mine is
comparable. The Oly is also F2.0 on the short
FL side.

Bob Watt

Bob Watt
 
Own an E-20 (wanna buy it and the WA Lens CHEEP?). Low pixel desity in RAW (144PPI 17.8X13.3), SLLLLLLOW ISO. I mean don't get me wrong, it has controls "like" an SLR (Av,TV, manual, exp+ -) but the similarity ENDS THERE. The expen$ive wide angle lens is useless (IMHO), and the camera doesn't come close in image quality overall, to a TRUE dSLR. The flip out viewfinder is a handy feature to hold the camera up over a crowd. The permanant lens avoids the "sensor dust factor". Aside from birghtly lit scenes, you'll never get a shutter speed fast enough (even @ 2.0 effective/300 ISO Max) to stop get a decent shot in say, a concert/play or other "no flash" subject...

I only wish I waited, or got the D100 (back in Sept. when I bought it). It's a point and shoot with TTL meter & viewfinder, and Av/Tv controls.

Not bashing, stating fact...

Rick
Bob Watt said:
While the Oly E10 is a true SLR in the sense
of thru the lense viewfinder, as someone else said
here, it uses a beamsplitter in lieu of a flipup mirror.
Result: no mirror shake, continuous sensor and
viewfinder illumination (and thus they provide
a built in viewfinder shutter to block backward
ligth on long exposures), and the ability you are
looking for. The viewfinder does flip out for
over the head use. That works for composition
but you would not be advised to use it for
checking AF. It's too small and dim.

Unfortunately, the only lenses variation is via
screw on adapters that are veiw heavy and
expensive.

Image quality is superb. Right up there with the D60
with a 28-135IS. But not close to primes and maybe
a ways off from L glass as well. At least mine is
comparable. The Oly is also F2.0 on the short
FL side.

Bob Watt

Bob Watt
Click to expand...
 
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right
shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature? How do you take a
picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your
head to get the right angle?

Tuna
Click to expand...
As useful as the flip out LCD is on a light digicam, I much prefer to look through the viewfinder on a true interchangeable lens SLR. It wouldn't be very easy to hold the camera away from me with a 70-200 f/2.8 lens attached. Plus, it's a lot easier to focus manually with an optical viewfinder.

Mark
 
The reasons for not needing it well covered, there are work-arounds.

I like to do time lapse runs from high angles, such as the corner of a room, where I can't get my head behind the viewfinder. There are still ways to get the camera properly positioned (and focused.)

1. Minimum price and control: Connect a small LCD portable TV to the video port, set the camera to low-res mode, shoot, adjust, shoot, etc. Then, using the TV to view the camera's display, set the shooting mode back and delete the test shots.

2. More control, higher price:

Use a laptop with Canon RemoteCapture or 10D Remote (Soon to come from Breezesys) via USB to review the shots, and control the camera.

3. For a quick over-the-head of ground level shot: No option other than trial and error, using the camera's LCD to view each shot after taking it.

Or, use burst mode, pan camera across the scene slightly while shooting, then delete all but the best afterward..

(For this, we need a mark-for-delete function, where you flag any number of shots for deletion, then after ONE confirmation, it deletes all the marked shots. Or, allow the user to mark up to nine shots, so they can all be displayed on one matrix mode screen for confirmation.
I'll take this up in another thread.
--
It's only a camera, not a religion!
 
Peter Phan said:
For most SLR photographers, being able to shoot photography above
one's head is not a very pressing issue. For events where I need
to get a higher angle, simply lifting my camera above my head even
if I had a swiveling LCD screen would not be an option I would go
for very often. Compromises to camera shake, imprecise framing,
and haphazard autofocus make this method very endesirable. I just
get to a higher position or bring a step ladder.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what "endesirable" means.

I like to take mostly candids and travel photography, which often entails jockying for the best angle. Thanks for the advice -- next time I'm traveling in India I'll think about your advice and bring a step ladder.

Tuna
 
Tuna Boy said:
Peter Phan said:
For most SLR photographers, being able to shoot photography above
one's head is not a very pressing issue. For events where I need
to get a higher angle, simply lifting my camera above my head even
if I had a swiveling LCD screen would not be an option I would go
for very often. Compromises to camera shake, imprecise framing,
and haphazard autofocus make this method very endesirable. I just
get to a higher position or bring a step ladder.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what "endesirable" means.

I like to take mostly candids and travel photography, which often
entails jockying for the best angle. Thanks for the advice -- next
time I'm traveling in India I'll think about your advice and bring
a step ladder.
Click to expand...
You don't need a step ladder for unusual angles. Yep, the above-the-head one does add a few options, but if you look around, there's quite often something to stand on... and your pictures will come out better due to the stabler grip.











Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Photo lessons: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/lessons/ ]
 
Tuna Boy said:
I've got a Canon G3 and am thinking of upgrading to a Canon SLR in
the next year or two. One of the best parts of the G3 is the flip
out LCD screen. I can't tell you how much this helps get the right
shot.

Why don't dSLRs have this very important feature? How do you take a
picture when, for example, you need to lift the camera above your
head to get the right angle?

Tuna
Click to expand...
--Take both the G3 and the 10D. I plan to do that. Use the G3 in those few situations where you need to get above the crowd or down low. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. I too love the swivel screen for these situations, but taking the G3 is not any bigger a deal bulk and weight wise, than carrying an extra lens.
Ranger
 
SickRick,

A lot of people thought the E20 was a step backwards
wrt the E10. Higher pixel count, but slow buffer and
not as good images. My E10 takes excellent pictures,
but after Oly upgraded my firmware when they fixed
a broken rotary switch, the quality went to hell. I had
to jack up the brightness and contrast to return
to the original camera qulaity, and it never really came
back to the original. The camera at F2.0 is significantly
better in low light than my D60 with 28-135IS at F3.5.
So you end up buying L glass at F2.8.
So it may be that as with Canon, samples vary I got a good
E10. Regardless, I went over 20k pictures on the E10 before
got the D60, which is now past 13k. Bottom line: use what
you have. I really discovered PS with the D60 because the
images take more work than the Oly. But guess what, the
Oly gathers dust unless I want a camera I am less worried
about losing or banging up. Many k$ worth of glass or
(now)
lens.

Bob Watt
 
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