Reading mode: Light Dark

Canon Speedlites and Serious Flash Work

Go to last post
Stevie B said:
Hi All,

I've been answering a few threads on Speedlites, batteries, etc
over the past few weeks, so posted an article on using these guns
in a studio setup. Please feel free to have a look and comment. I'd
be delighted to add any extra info.

http://www.steviebarrett.com/home/index.php?article=10

Cheers

Stevie
--
http://www.steviebarrett.com
Click to expand...
Nice work Stevie. Might be nice to have a few more example pics perhaps? I've got a 550 and a 420 but was foiled because the Canon system can't be triggered by the camera itself unlike the Minolta flash setup I came from. I just assumed that Canon's having come along later would be as flexible. So, I need to either buy an ST-E2 or an off camera lead. As the lead is the cheaper option, and more in-line with my intentions at saving money over a studio setup, I'll probably go down that route.

Interesting page though - thanks,

Simon
--
See profile for my credit card legacy...
 
I read over the page- nicely done!

I have a 550EX and two 420EX's. I have shot mainly sports/scenics, but I'd like to either make my E-TTL setup useful for small studio applications or else sell it to get a "real" studio setup. I am wondering your opinion on this setup: get the off-camera cord for the 550EX, use that for key, and then have it trigger the 420EX's as fill and background or hair light? To do that I'd need to get real lighting stands, umbrellas, and the off-camera cord. I am just trying to decide if it is even worth spending that money on the gear to make my E-TTL work, only to upgrade to an Alien Bee or Excalibur setup that might inlcude the light stands/ umbrellas anyway in the future. How much can I reasonably light with the 550EX and two 420EX's? Is it a system I can grow with at least a little ways? I know many here would probably argue that I should steer away from E-TTL and just get the real stuff.

-Ken

http://www.vistablue.net
http://www.pbase.com/mistereman
 
Thanks for the replies.

Ken and Simon - have included a couple more images in the article itself to illustrate the points. Also, if you have a look at the portraits and nudes portfolios on my site you'll find that the vast majority of the shots were taken using the setup discussed ( http://www.steviebarrett.com/photography )

Ken - many thanks for the question. I thought long and hard about whether to buy a 'pro' kit (i.e. mains powered studio setup) rather than buy the stands, batteries etc separately; and, to be honest, I went the more expensive route. But, I love the portability. I can be set up and ready to fire in seconds, and can modify the setup very quickly onsite (wherever that may be). It's very much a question of taste and need.

2 420s and a 550 will light a great deal if used properly. You would be struggling to do big interiors or large groups effectively, but for portrait and figure work I find my 550s and 420 ideal. Actually most of my work just uses 2 guns, and they can light the most difficult of situations.

I haven't used the off camera cord. As I said in the article I very much like the ST-E2. One advantage I would guess you might have is that using a 550 as a master (rather than the ST-E2) would allow 3 groups rather than 2; and having 3 way control you could get very creative.

Stevie
--
http://www.steviebarrett.com
 
Nice work Stevie! Much appreciated.

My second 420 arrived yesterday. Last night I experimented inside with a 550 and 2-420 setup with umbrellas. I quickly became intrigued with the 3-channel ratios. I have studio lights, but as noted, they are cumbersome for some locations, and impossible for others (eg: shooting this weekend in shaded gardens with no 110v outlet). I'm going to try the 3-flash ETTL setup outside in heavy shade later today. I particularly like your creative use of the beamer. Thanks again!
Fred
 
I recently sold all my E-TTL flashes(except a Metz 54 MZ-3 I keep for occasional on-camera flash)& replaced it all with a six light AlienBee setup & Vagabond battery system for more power etc.

I have a question on the nude shots. How are you getting a three stop difference on your pure white backgrounds using only the Canon flashes??

Heck, I have trouble doing that with strobes on occasion!! ;-)

-John
 
Hi John,

Thanks for your comment.

Find it quite easy to get the white background using the 420 EX as a background light with the 2 550s serving key duties. I'll normally set the 420 to group B along with the second (fill) light and control the modelling using the right amount of light on the single flash assigned to group A.

Hope this helps

S.
--
http://www.steviebarrett.com
 
Simon Watkins said:
I've got a 550 and a 420 but was foiled because the Canon
system can't be triggered by the camera itself unlike the Minolta
flash setup I came from. I just assumed that Canon's having come
along later would be as flexible. So, I need to either buy an
ST-E2 or an off camera lead. As the lead is the cheaper option,
and more in-line with my intentions at saving money over a studio
setup, I'll probably go down that route.
Click to expand...
If I were you, I would think twice about the ST-E2 vs. a lead. The ST-E2 will give you a lot more freedom and versatility. Also, I think the only TTL-cord for the the system is very short (three feet or something like that), so if you want something longer you'll have to make some kind of extension yourself. Lastly, the ST-E2 will improve the AF-performance in low-light, or no-light situaions (or when your subject is low in contrast). I've heard of people keeping the ST-E2 on the camera at all times, just because of this side-benefit. The ST-E2 is the best accessory I've bought (of course it wouldn't do much good on a G2 without at least one flashhead as well). Like Stevie B, I too love that Canon E-TTL flash system, it's the best proprietary flash system I've ever used (have also used Minolta's and Olympus' flash systems in the past)!

Olaf
--
Canon G1 owner since December 2000 - G2 owner since May 2002
Flash system: a Canon 420EX, a Canon 550EX and a Canon ST-E2.
After the pictures are taken:
Mac G4/450Mhz, 1Gb RAM, 21' Mac Studio Display w/Colorsync
 
Olaf.dk said:
If I were you, I would think twice about the ST-E2 vs. a lead. The
ST-E2 will give you a lot more freedom and versatility.
Click to expand...
Freedom perhaps, but not versatility as I understand it - it has fewer features compared with a 550EX in the master position?
Olaf.dk said:
Also, I
think the only TTL-cord for the the system is very short (three
feet or something like that), so if you want something longer
you'll have to make some kind of extension yourself.
Click to expand...
That's a pain :( Although making an extension isn't too much hassle. I'd just rather not spend the extra money for a two flash set up. I didn't mind buying the 550EX, as I wanted a portable more powerful flash. I lucked in with the 420EX on Ebay, advertised as faulty, and thus went very cheaply, but worked perfectly when I got it and put fresh batteries in it :)

So at the moment, I consider the 420EX almost free. Thus it was the cost effectiveness of having 2 flashes that appealed to me. If I have to spend the money that an ST-E2 will cost me, I'd prefer to sell the 420EX and use the money on a small 2 head studio flash system.
Olaf.dk said:
Lastly, the
ST-E2 will improve the AF-performance in low-light, or no-light
situaions (or when your subject is low in contrast). I've heard of
people keeping the ST-E2 on the camera at all times, just because
of this side-benefit.
Click to expand...
Hmmm - I don't like the cheapo flash focus assist on the 10D, but in situations where I'll be using it, the low light focus performance is sufficient. I've never really found myself having problems over several years with AF and low light - probably because I don't do that much of it. Thus the ST-E2 wouldn't get a lot of use.
Olaf.dk said:
The ST-E2 is the best accessory I've bought
(of course it wouldn't do much good on a G2 without at least one
flashhead as well).
Click to expand...
I'm sure for some it is the right solution. Perhaps not for me though.
Olaf.dk said:
Like Stevie B, I too love that Canon E-TTL
flash system, it's the best proprietary flash system I've ever used
(have also used Minolta's and Olympus' flash systems in the past)!
Click to expand...
Personally I found Minolta's system rather more flexible and cost effective. The Canon system seems a bit "kludgy" in comparison. I'll give it more time though - it seems it will do all I want it to do. It's just that awfully frustrating inability of the camera to control the first wireless flash. What were Canon thinking? Are there any camera's in Canon's range that can control the flash wirelessly without need of the ST-E2?

Simon
 
Simon Watkins said:
Personally I found Minolta's system rather more flexible and cost
effective. The Canon system seems a bit "kludgy" in comparison.
I'll give it more time though - it seems it will do all I want it
to do. It's just that awfully frustrating inability of the camera
to control the first wireless flash. What were Canon thinking?
Click to expand...
What I didn't like about the Minolta solution was this: The internal flash, by definition stuck right above the lens, controlled the external flash by VISIBLE light. This produced well defined and UNWANTED shadows around my subjects, much like a point and shoot camera, but to a lesser degree of course, since it was not the main light (Minolta Maxxum 7si + 5400HS flash). I much prefer Canons infrared light solution. It would be neat though, if this functionality was built right into the camera.
Simon Watkins said:
Are there any cameras in Canon's range that can control the flash
wirelessly without need of the ST-E2?
Click to expand...
Not counting putting a 550EX in the hot-shoe, no - not that I know...

Olaf
--
Canon G1 owner since December 2000 - G2 owner since May 2002
Flash system: a Canon 420EX, a Canon 550EX and a Canon ST-E2.
After the pictures are taken:
Mac G4/450Mhz, 1Gb RAM, 21' Mac Studio Display w/Colorsync
 
Olaf.dk said:
What I didn't like about the Minolta solution was this: The
internal flash, by definition stuck right above the lens,
controlled the external flash by VISIBLE light. This produced well
defined and UNWANTED shadows around my subjects, much like a point
and shoot camera, but to a lesser degree of course, since it was
not the main light (Minolta Maxxum 7si + 5400HS flash). I much
prefer Canons infrared light solution. It would be neat though, if
this functionality was built right into the camera.
Click to expand...
I came from an 800si. The control signal was a very low power flash from the internal flash that didn't contribute anything to the exposure as I recall. I can't remember now, but it was something like 1/32 power. It could also do ratio if required of course.

However, in order not to have a 550EX wasted on top of the camera, you have to have an ST-E2 (or off camera cable) with the canon system. Otherwise you need an expensive 550EX sat in exactly the worst position you could possibly want. With the 1/32 inbuilt, and no leads, you could at least get the expensive dedicated flash off camera without paying anything more; that makes it more flexible/better value in my book :) I thought Minolta had something similar to the ST-E2 anyway?

I'm sure Canon could trigger their wireless flash system very easily and cheaply in the same way as Minolta do if they chose to do so. Call me a sceptic, but why would they, when they must make nice profits from the ST-E2.
Olaf.dk said:
Olaf.dk said:
Are there any cameras in Canon's range that can control the flash
wirelessly without need of the ST-E2?
Click to expand...
Not counting putting a 550EX in the hot-shoe, no - not that I know...
Click to expand...
Seems strange - I can see no technological reason why they couldn't. Even if it involved clipping a red filter over the internal flash to make it the equivalent of the ST-E2 signal. Like I said just above, the motivation to do so probably isn't there, as it would remove the need for the consumer to buy an ST-E2 to do what they wanted.

Simon
 
Thanks for the informative article, Steve.

I'm coming into Canon territory after thirteen years of Nikon, preceded by twelve of Olympus use. So bear with the basic questions!

There are times a flash bracket places the unit about eight inches above the hot shoe. I assume that is too far off axis for the ST-E2 to fire a 550 which sits above?

How to get a bracket mounted flash to fire via the ST-2E, while controlling a second (remote) 550?

Thanks for the article and any input! -Scott
 
I've mentioned this before on this Canon forum, but I'm still practising this technique with my 10d to get it right. Coming from Nikon DSLR's last year, when using flash on camera you could just use focus lock, recompose then take the photo, with the flash sorting out the exposure. With Canon ETTL you cannot do this (I'm sure I will be corrected), and you have to use FEL then recompose and shoot. Now, if I'm taking lots of groups in a hall, 3 or 4 shots of each group, I do not have time to do FEL before each shot. Is there an easy way around this? Sorry for being so thick!

Bob
Scott Hughes said:
Thanks for the informative article, Steve.

I'm coming into Canon territory after thirteen years of Nikon,
preceded by twelve of Olympus use. So bear with the basic
questions!

There are times a flash bracket places the unit about eight inches
above the hot shoe. I assume that is too far off axis for the ST-E2
to fire a 550 which sits above?

How to get a bracket mounted flash to fire via the ST-2E, while
controlling a second (remote) 550?

Thanks for the article and any input! -Scott
Click to expand...
 
Hi Scott,

I wouldn't have too much faith in an ST-E2 triggering a bracket mounted gun. The ST-E2 needs to be able to 'see' the infrared sensor on the slave, so I would doubt it - but I've never tried. I have heard of people pushing the ST-E2 by triggering guns round corners (!!) but at the other end of the extreme (i.e. too close) it could well be problematic.

Why would you want to trigger a bracket mounted 550 from an ST-E2?

Not sure if that helps!

S.

http://www.steviebarrett.com
 
Sorry Bob,

It's me who's being thick! I don't if I follow the jist of the problem??

I use exposure lock to correctly meter for the subject when the background is of little interest (or is problematic) and find that I can do this very quickly - meter-lock-recompose-shoot = all takes about a second.

S.
Bob C. said:
Bob
Scott Hughes said:
Thanks for the informative article, Steve.

I'm coming into Canon territory after thirteen years of Nikon,
preceded by twelve of Olympus use. So bear with the basic
questions!

There are times a flash bracket places the unit about eight inches
above the hot shoe. I assume that is too far off axis for the ST-E2
to fire a 550 which sits above?

How to get a bracket mounted flash to fire via the ST-2E, while
controlling a second (remote) 550?

Thanks for the article and any input! -Scott
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.steviebarrett.com
 
Stevie B said:
Hi Scott,

I wouldn't have too much faith in an ST-E2 triggering a bracket
mounted gun.
Click to expand...
Actually, the ST-E2 will trigger a 550 on a bracket just fine. I was talking to a Pro recently that always fires his 550 EX on a Stroboframe with an ST-E2. He hates cords & had problems with the Canon off camera cord(I have seen other people reporting lots of problems with the Canon off camera cords although mine has always worked fine)

-John
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top