Nikon ZR vs others

[photogrr]

in term of size and weight



1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

 

[shuncheung]

in term of size and weight

The Zr has a CFexpress Type B card slot. To me that is very important, especially for video capture, but the other Micro SD slot is pathetic; wish Nikon could at least give us normal SD. I wonder which other camera among those four have two card slots and uses CFx B? I don't particularly care for Sony's CFx Type A cards, which are physically small and are expensive on a per GB basis.

1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

If photographers means those people who capture still images, I think most photographers prefer to use the EVF rather than the rear LCD; at least the options should be available. However, while I mostly use the EVF for capturing still images, I mostly use the LCD for video when the camera is on a tripod.

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

 

[NickZ2016]

I firmly believe the microSD is so people don't whine about the lack of a second card slot. No other reason.

OTOH it's what every action cam uses. Lots of cheap bigger ones out there. Unlike V90 full size SD cards that are expensive and not that common

 

[shuncheung]

I firmly believe the microSD is so people don't whine about the lack of a second card slot. No other reason.

Totally agree with you on that. It is the same reason that Nikon uses the SD + Micro SD combo on the Zf. When I bought my Z6 in 2018, I was somewhat uncomfortable with the fact that it has only one XQD card slot and nothing else, and that XQD slot later on also accepts CFx B. For still captures, I prefer to be able to write the RAW file onto both cards.

However, no Nikon Z body can write video files onto two memory cards simultaneously anyway; even the Z9 cannot. And the Zr's Micro SD card slot is a slow UHS-1 type. It is pretty useless IMO for a video-centric body.

OTOH it's what every action cam uses. Lots of cheap bigger ones out there. Unlike V90 full size SD cards that are expensive and not that common

I don't even like regular SD cards. I have physically broken a few of them. In particular, that little lock switch is fragile. I have also misplaced a few of them as they can pretty easily fall into gaps in sofas .... Micro SD is even worse. I have two sound recorders that use Micro SD and I am quite uncomfortable with them.

I don't expect Nikon to put two CFx B slots onto a Zr-class body. Space is one issue, and power consumption as well as heat dissipation are major concerns, but I wish Nikon would give us at least CFx B + regular SD.

 

[Tim200]

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

I like this design decision. Those who prefer gripless are happy, and those who need a grip can add on a 3rd party like the smallrig. It would've been interesting had they offered a free add-on grip as a promotion.

 

[NickZ2016]

Newer CFe cards run pretty cool at camera speeds. The only way I can get mine to warm up in in the card reader. But the card reader supports full v4.0 speeds unlike the camera that's slower than maxed out v2.0

I don't think heat is the big issue. Space? Sure. The ZR is obviously designed to be small.

 

[NickZ2016]

A lot of people already have various handles that fit the smallrig cage. You just unscrew them from one of your other cameras.

If you're going to use the cage that's a reasonable option.

OTOH if you want the smallest possible then you don't. Gimbal use for example.

 

[shuncheung]

Newer CFe cards run pretty cool at camera speeds. The only way I can get mine to warm up in in the card reader. But the card reader supports full v4.0 speeds unlike the camera that's slower than maxed out v2.0

I don't think heat is the big issue. Space? Sure. The ZR is obviously designed to be small.

Overheating is still a pretty serious concern on the Z8, but that is a body from 2+ years ago and can capture 8K. The Zr maxes out at 6K and is supposed to have a large heat sink inside, which likely contributes to the size and weight. (Someone needs to take a Zr apart to show the internals.)

It still annoys me that no current Nikon Z body can record video onto two cards simultaneously, even the second copy could be a lower-quality video, but CFexpress B failures are still rare. Otherwise, I'll just need to feed an external recorder via the HDMI connection to get the backup video, captured at real time.

Space, heat and power consumption are issues. The heat from two CFexpress B has to come from some battery, and the EN-EL15c is still kind of small.

 

[Tim200]

A lot of people already have various handles that fit the smallrig cage. You just unscrew them from one of your other cameras.

If you're going to use the cage that's a reasonable option.

OTOH if you want the smallest possible then you don't. Gimbal use for example.

For those who don't use cages, Smallrig also sells a grip only (L bracket)

 

[WPMChan]

1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

Agree, an innovative design rather than just adding the Red technology in a Z6iii.

Nikon point out in their promotion about free of cooling fan noise, which sounds like something important for using built-in microphones.

Its body design seems to be successful in effective natural heat dissipation for long video capture without overheating.

 

[NickZ2016]

It still annoys me that no current Nikon Z body can record video onto two cards simultaneously, even the second copy could be a lower-quality video, but CFexpress B failures are still rare. Otherwise, I'll just need to feed an external recorder via the HDMI connection to get the backup video, captured at real time.

Space, heat and power consumption are issues. The heat from two CFexpress B has to come from some battery, and the EN-EL15c is still kind of small.

I don't think any of the bigger serious Cine cameras have dual slot recording.

If you wanted to power a ZR for long clip use it's pretty easy to plug in an USB power source but you'll likely run out of card space before the 15 battery dies.

You could rig the camera up with a V mount USB C battery . Even a smaller 99watt hour battery is huge.

 

[areallygrumpyoldsod]

I find the Zr quite small compared to my normal photography cameras (Z8/Z9), which I also use for video.
On the +ve side 4” display, RED RAW-NE, 32-bit float audio, ability to apply LUTs and much more

On the negative side - any rig/external mic that is not in the data shoe severely restricts the up/down rotation of the LCD; position of the 1,2, and 3 buttons make them impossible to use like fn buttons on the Z6iii; the front REC button on accepts a few assigned roles and these do not include af-on; h.265 10-bit has very high noise reduction/smoothing applied automatically and users cannot change it (but you can shoot 5.5k and downsize to 4k or 1080p improving the sharpness in the process in resolve);

As can be seen in the images below - I attached the cage, the remote grip, and 2 bolt on adapters micro-hdmi to full-sized and a usb-c mount — both to provide better stronger access to the ports; the data hotshoe - which works well with the new Nikon shotgun mic leaves clashes with a normally positioned top handle - I hope Nikon will release a cable adapter so one can “move” the data shoe to the front/top of the handle. In the meantime time one just locates a more traditional shotgun mic in this position and feed audio in via the mic input port.

Shooting vids and with long glass like my 600/4 TC is TOUGH without an eyepiece -- I shot vids and stills yesterday at a local pond and had the lens supported on a panning plate, while I lay on the ground -- it was tough to see the LCD with bright sun behind. A good add on EVF that takes hdmi - costs over £1600 [Zacuto Kameleon Pro EVF]. However I will try again after attaching a Ninja V with sun shade, of course it will now rain for the rest of the week.



--
areallygrumpyoldsod
Nikon and Hasselblad shooter -- wildlife and and --
https://www.andymillerphoto.co.uk/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajm057/
I do not respond to PMs or messages via my website

 

[Rich Rosen]

in term of size and weight



1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

There are definitely some issues with the ZR body, as a still camera, and also as a video camera. The grip is one of them. Seems to me that Nikon is regressing in usability of some of its bodies. The ZR is great if you are using 1.8 or 1.4 primes (the Plena not included), but the minute one tries to step up to a 24-120, or even the older 24-70 f2.8, it becomes a hassle to hold. The ZF and the ZFc are two other cameras without grips. Another issue is the memory cards. The Micro SD card is of little use in video, as previously stated, and Nikon continues to not allow duplicate video recording. This camera, even with updates will never be able to do that. The MicroHDMI is also counter productive to a video centric camera. I'm not sure about the lack of EVF yet. I've always steered away from cameras without them, but the promise of a brighter screen, and my desire for a lighter camera overcame my objections. I still reserve an opinion on that subject.

But the ZR is still very compelling as a stills and video camera (I'm a novice in video, so that part of my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt).

--
Rich Rosen

 

[bing041]

in term of size and weight



1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

There are definitely some issues with the ZR body, as a still camera, and also as a video camera. The grip is one of them. Seems to me that Nikon is regressing in usability of some of its bodies. The ZR is great if you are using 1.8 or 1.4 primes (the Plena not included), but the minute one tries to step up to a 24-120, or even the older 24-70 f2.8, it becomes a hassle to hold. The ZF and the ZFc are two other cameras without grips. Another issue is the memory cards. The Micro SD card is of little use in video, as previously stated, and Nikon continues to not allow duplicate video recording. This camera, even with updates will never be able to do that. The MicroHDMI is also counter productive to a video centric camera. I'm not sure about the lack of EVF yet. I've always steered away from cameras without them, but the promise of a brighter screen, and my desire for a lighter camera overcame my objections. I still reserve an opinion on that subject.

But the ZR is still very compelling as a stills and video camera (I'm a novice in video, so that part of my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt).

--
Rich Rosen

I have shot now plenty of video - which requires lots of holding - using big zooms - 28-400, 24-200 - and I had no problem holding on or holding steady. None.

The 4" screen and the ability to shoot RAW makes attaching any external device by HDMI superfluous. That is the point.

No need for Atomos (internal RAW video), no need for external recorders (32bit audio), no need for external monitor(4" lcd).

Anyway, I am reporting based on actual usage, for video, which is more demanding.

 

[shuncheung]

It still annoys me that no current Nikon Z body can record video onto two cards simultaneously, even the second copy could be a lower-quality video, but CFexpress B failures are still rare. Otherwise, I'll just need to feed an external recorder via the HDMI connection to get the backup video, captured at real time.

Space, heat and power consumption are issues. The heat from two CFexpress B has to come from some battery, and the EN-EL15c is still kind of small.

I don't think any of the bigger serious Cine cameras have dual slot recording.

On the lowly Canon R6ii, which is a $2000 to $2500 camera depending on discounts, you can record videos onto both SD cards simultaneously, but there are restrictions about video quality, as the bandwidth on SD cards is somewhat limited. You can't write RAW video onto two cards.

The point is that plenty of non-Nikon cameras can record video simultaneously on two internal memory cards, and even though one of the two is low-quality video, hopefully you will still have something in case your main card fails.

If you wanted to power a ZR for long clip use it's pretty easy to plug in an USB power source but you'll likely run out of card space before the 15 battery dies.

You could rig the camera up with a V mount USB C battery . Even a smaller 99watt hour battery is huge.

I tend to capture video with 3, 4 cameras simultaneously to get different angles and some close ups on musicians. Therefore, I don't want any complex set up on any one of my cameras, as I have nobody to assist me. So far I haven't had any CFx B failures, and if one card indeed fails, I still have footage from other cameras. But I am looking forward to the day that my one or two primary cameras will have dual card recording capability.

 

[NickZ2016]

I don't think any of the bigger serious Cine cameras have dual slot recording.

On the lowly Canon R6ii, which is a $2000 to $2500 camera depending on discounts,

But no real video cameras. None of the Red, Arri etc.

I tend to capture video with 3, 4 cameras simultaneously to get different angles and some close ups on musicians. Therefore, I don't want any complex set up on any one of my cameras, as I have nobody to assist me. So far I haven't had any CFx B failures, and if one card indeed fails, I still have footage from other cameras. But I am looking forward to the day that my one or two primary cameras will have dual card recording capability.

Plugging in an USB C power cable isn't really complicated. With a long cable you don't even need to rig it up. Just put the powerbank on the ground but attaching a bank to cage isn't that hard.

Or go up to something like the Smallrig V mount battery. The thing might last a week continuously

 

[Rich Rosen]

in term of size and weight



1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

There are definitely some issues with the ZR body, as a still camera, and also as a video camera. The grip is one of them. Seems to me that Nikon is regressing in usability of some of its bodies. The ZR is great if you are using 1.8 or 1.4 primes (the Plena not included), but the minute one tries to step up to a 24-120, or even the older 24-70 f2.8, it becomes a hassle to hold. The ZF and the ZFc are two other cameras without grips. Another issue is the memory cards. The Micro SD card is of little use in video, as previously stated, and Nikon continues to not allow duplicate video recording. This camera, even with updates will never be able to do that. The MicroHDMI is also counter productive to a video centric camera. I'm not sure about the lack of EVF yet. I've always steered away from cameras without them, but the promise of a brighter screen, and my desire for a lighter camera overcame my objections. I still reserve an opinion on that subject.

But the ZR is still very compelling as a stills and video camera (I'm a novice in video, so that part of my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt).

I have shot now plenty of video - which requires lots of holding - using big zooms - 28-400, 24-200 - and I had no problem holding on or holding steady. None.

The 4" screen and the ability to shoot RAW makes attaching any external device by HDMI superfluous. That is the point.



No need for Atomos (internal RAW video), no need for external recorders (32bit audio), no need for external monitor(4" lcd).

Anyway, I am reporting based on actual usage, for video, which is more demanding.

I think that's an excuse for not putting in a full size HDMI. Nikon wanted to keep the camera small and light...and inexpensive. The circuitry for a full size HDMI is larger, heavier and more expensive.

My 70-200 and 100-400 are a little heavier than either of lenses you mention. Even the 24-70 f2.8 S (1) is hefty with its 82mm filter size. The 24-120 is border line, but still a hassle. I'm not saying it cant be done. What I am saying is that it is a hassle because it can become uncomfortable...hence the SmallRig cage which is on order. Shooting stills is no less demanding in different ways. I am learning about the demands of video, and the stories it can tell. But a still can tell a story as well.

--
Rich Rosen

 

[bing041]

in term of size and weight



1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

There are definitely some issues with the ZR body, as a still camera, and also as a video camera. The grip is one of them. Seems to me that Nikon is regressing in usability of some of its bodies. The ZR is great if you are using 1.8 or 1.4 primes (the Plena not included), but the minute one tries to step up to a 24-120, or even the older 24-70 f2.8, it becomes a hassle to hold. The ZF and the ZFc are two other cameras without grips. Another issue is the memory cards. The Micro SD card is of little use in video, as previously stated, and Nikon continues to not allow duplicate video recording. This camera, even with updates will never be able to do that. The MicroHDMI is also counter productive to a video centric camera. I'm not sure about the lack of EVF yet. I've always steered away from cameras without them, but the promise of a brighter screen, and my desire for a lighter camera overcame my objections. I still reserve an opinion on that subject.

But the ZR is still very compelling as a stills and video camera (I'm a novice in video, so that part of my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt).

I have shot now plenty of video - which requires lots of holding - using big zooms - 28-400, 24-200 - and I had no problem holding on or holding steady. None.

The 4" screen and the ability to shoot RAW makes attaching any external device by HDMI superfluous. That is the point.

No need for Atomos (internal RAW video), no need for external recorders (32bit audio), no need for external monitor(4" lcd).

Anyway, I am reporting based on actual usage, for video, which is more demanding.

I think that's an excuse for not putting in a full size HDMI. Nikon wanted to keep the camera small and light...and inexpensive. The circuitry for a full size HDMI is larger, heavier and more expensive.

My 70-200 and 100-400 are a little heavier than either of lenses you mention. Even the 24-70 f2.8 S (1) is hefty with its 82mm filter size. The 24-120 is border line, but still a hassle. I'm not saying it cant be done. What I am saying is that it is a hassle because it can become uncomfortable...hence the SmallRig cage which is on order. Shooting stills is no less demanding in different ways. I am learning about the demands of video, and the stories it can tell. But a still can tell a story as well.

I wasn't arguing for the reason that the HDMI is not full size, only that it is irrelevant, and not the big deal you make of it.

You hold big lenses by holding the lens and the camera for any camera. You are again exagerating.

And the need to hold the camera steady is much more critical for video. Do you shoot 10-second stills shots? Story telling has nothing to do with difficulty. You said you have little experience shooting video. That's fine, but then don't compare until you do.

 

[fotowbert]

From left to right these appear to be:

Nikon ZR; Panasonic S9; Sony A7CII; Sigma fp

You're welcome.

• John

 

[Rich Rosen]

in term of size and weight



1. While other camera makers utilize same screen over the years Nikon make a bold decision to place a big rear screen

2. More photographer doesn`t care about EVF

3. Gripless design is for compactness and for use small lenses, if you want grip buy a bigger body

There are definitely some issues with the ZR body, as a still camera, and also as a video camera. The grip is one of them. Seems to me that Nikon is regressing in usability of some of its bodies. The ZR is great if you are using 1.8 or 1.4 primes (the Plena not included), but the minute one tries to step up to a 24-120, or even the older 24-70 f2.8, it becomes a hassle to hold. The ZF and the ZFc are two other cameras without grips. Another issue is the memory cards. The Micro SD card is of little use in video, as previously stated, and Nikon continues to not allow duplicate video recording. This camera, even with updates will never be able to do that. The MicroHDMI is also counter productive to a video centric camera. I'm not sure about the lack of EVF yet. I've always steered away from cameras without them, but the promise of a brighter screen, and my desire for a lighter camera overcame my objections. I still reserve an opinion on that subject.

But the ZR is still very compelling as a stills and video camera (I'm a novice in video, so that part of my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt).

I have shot now plenty of video - which requires lots of holding - using big zooms - 28-400, 24-200 - and I had no problem holding on or holding steady. None.

The 4" screen and the ability to shoot RAW makes attaching any external device by HDMI superfluous. That is the point.

No need for Atomos (internal RAW video), no need for external recorders (32bit audio), no need for external monitor(4" lcd).

Anyway, I am reporting based on actual usage, for video, which is more demanding.

I think that's an excuse for not putting in a full size HDMI. Nikon wanted to keep the camera small and light...and inexpensive. The circuitry for a full size HDMI is larger, heavier and more expensive.

My 70-200 and 100-400 are a little heavier than either of lenses you mention. Even the 24-70 f2.8 S (1) is hefty with its 82mm filter size. The 24-120 is border line, but still a hassle. I'm not saying it cant be done. What I am saying is that it is a hassle because it can become uncomfortable...hence the SmallRig cage which is on order. Shooting stills is no less demanding in different ways. I am learning about the demands of video, and the stories it can tell. But a still can tell a story as well.

I wasn't arguing for the reason that the HDMI is full size, only that it is irrelevant, and not the big deal you make of it.

You hold big lenses by holding the lens and the camera for any camera. You are again exagerating.

And the need to hold the camera steady is much more critical for video. Do you shoot 10-second stills shots? Story telling has nothing to do with difficulty. You said you have little experience shooting video. That's fine, but then don't compare until you do.

I wasn’t comparing stills to video. I was stating that from my perspective, the grip is very important. Being able to switch weight bearing from one hand to another when changing settings is desirable. A body with a grip makes that easier. Yes, I have shot 10 second stills….using a tripod. When you shoot 10 second videos, you are actually shooting 24,30, etc frames a second. When you bounce around you see a clear video bouncing around. If I’m not stabilized, I get a blurry photo. And don’t you have stablizing platforms to prevent that bouncing around. Grips are not the primary factor in stabilization. They are helpful for comfort, in holding a big lens. The ZR lacks that. I’m not exaggerating.




--
Rich Rosen