Sony a7cr

[Olympuse1]

Hi

What is the reason this compact a7cr shutter speed is limited to 1/4000?

Is it intentiilonal as a product segmentation strategy or due to energy limitations such as having a small battery?

 

[LarsAndreas]

In order to get a compact full-frame shuttter assumbly into the A7C/A7Cii/AC7R body, they had to design the shutter mechanism with at least a few limitations. First, it is only EFCS; second, it is very loud (compared to the A7RV and a6700, at least). My guess is that the 1/4000 limitation is just another constraint on that shutter design. (Note you can go to 1/8000 in electronic shutter, so seems less likely that it is an artificial limitation for segmenting their product line, but of course that doesn't rule it out.) Just my 2 cents.

 

[kood]

I think it's due to the fact that the shutter's really not fully mechanical, it has electronic first curtain shutter (efcs) only. I'm not sure if it's a design limitation due to cost, shutter shock and/or size of the body.

 

[Ralf B]

Hi

What is the reason this compact a7cr shutter speed is limited to 1/4000?

Is it intentiilonal as a product segmentation strategy or due to energy limitations such as having a small battery?

The battery is identical to larger Sony FE cams, so that is no reason - and that info is publicly available BTW.

 

[Olympuse1]

In order to get a compact full-frame shuttter assumbly into the A7C/A7Cii/AC7R body, they had to design the shutter mechanism with at least a few limitations. First, it is only EFCS; second, it is very loud (compared to the A7RV and a6700, at least). My guess is that the 1/4000 limitation is just another constraint on that shutter design. (Note you can go to 1/8000 in electronic shutter, so seems less likely that it is an artificial limitation for segmenting their product line, but of course that doesn't rule it out.) Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the explanation.

Its strange because the body is priced in the range but seems to have prosumer limitations. I ve seen much smaller cams that still keep a mech shutter with 1/8000 so found this limit strange.

 

[wheresrunnicles]

In order to get a compact full-frame shuttter assumbly into the A7C/A7Cii/AC7R body, they had to design the shutter mechanism with at least a few limitations. First, it is only EFCS; second, it is very loud (compared to the A7RV and a6700, at least). My guess is that the 1/4000 limitation is just another constraint on that shutter design. (Note you can go to 1/8000 in electronic shutter, so seems less likely that it is an artificial limitation for segmenting their product line, but of course that doesn't rule it out.) Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the explanation.

It’s strange because the body is priced in the range but seems to have prosumer limitations. I ve seen much smaller cams that still keep a mech shutter with 1/8000 so found this limit strange.

There isn’t a smaller full frame camera with a mechanical shutter though. Ultra compact cameras have always had this sort of limitations. The sigma FP and Panasonic S9 are e shutter only. The GM5 which was ultra compact in the M43 world was electric first curtain and then only up to 1/500, after that is was e shutter.

If there’s another ultra compact full frame camera with a faster mechanical shutter, I’m curious to hear about them.

 

[Rod McD]

Hi,

I read somewhere that they developed a smaller shutter unit for the C series, so I suspect it's one of the sacrifices to miniaturization.

It's limited to a longest duration of 30secs at the other end too. It would surely be a simple matter to extend it..... but that seems to be a Sony thing.

Cheers, Rod

 

[nepalisherpa]

In order to get a compact full-frame shuttter assumbly into the A7C/A7Cii/AC7R body, they had to design the shutter mechanism with at least a few limitations. First, it is only EFCS; second, it is very loud (compared to the A7RV and a6700, at least). My guess is that the 1/4000 limitation is just another constraint on that shutter design. (Note you can go to 1/8000 in electronic shutter, so seems less likely that it is an artificial limitation for segmenting their product line, but of course that doesn't rule it out.) Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the explanation.

Its strange because the body is priced in the range but seems to have prosumer limitations. I ve seen much smaller cams that still keep a mech shutter with 1/8000 so found this limit strange.

The smaller cameras with mechanical shutter that you have seen all have cropped sensor. Whether the limitation is there due to design choice or product segmentation, only Sony knows.

--
https://www.instagram.com/nepalisherpa/

 

[TO11MTM]

In order to get a compact full-frame shuttter assumbly into the A7C/A7Cii/AC7R body, they had to design the shutter mechanism with at least a few limitations. First, it is only EFCS; second, it is very loud (compared to the A7RV and a6700, at least). My guess is that the 1/4000 limitation is just another constraint on that shutter design. (Note you can go to 1/8000 in electronic shutter, so seems less likely that it is an artificial limitation for segmenting their product line, but of course that doesn't rule it out.) Just my 2 cents.

They sound very different between A7CR and A6K. A7CR sounds more like a James Bond silenced firearm vs the 'clack' of my A6000/A6700 with EFCS on.

I will admit, A7CR is a 'louder' noise, but per above a bit more subtle.

 

[Interceptor121]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

 

[nepalisherpa]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

 

[wheresrunnicles]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

 

[Interceptor121]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

 

[nepalisherpa]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

 

[Interceptor121]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

 

[nepalisherpa]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

limitations dont make something bad they make it limited ie you cant do everything like you would like foe example shooting with flash at 1/160 instead of 1/250 or the camera doesn’t have a wired remote or the evf is super small and low rez etc etc

let me guess you own one?

Of course I own one! Here's what you said few posts ago: "if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are". To OP, that sounds like the C-series are bad cameras. Limitations are not bad for everyone if they have no need for such features. Also, seriously, how much limited are you with 1/160 vs 1/250?

 

[wheresrunnicles]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

limitations dont make something bad they make it limited ie you cant do everything like you would like foe example shooting with flash at 1/160 instead of 1/250 or the camera doesn’t have a wired remote or the evf is super small and low rez etc etc

let me guess you own one?

 

[Interceptor121]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

limitations dont make something bad they make it limited ie you cant do everything like you would like foe example shooting with flash at 1/160 instead of 1/250 or the camera doesn’t have a wired remote or the evf is super small and low rez etc etc

let me guess you own one?

Of course I own one! Here's what you said few posts ago: "if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are". To OP, that sounds like the C-series are bad cameras. Limitations are not bad for everyone if they have no need for such features. Also, seriously, how much limited are you with 1/160 vs 1/250?

 

[Interceptor121]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

limitations dont make something bad they make it limited ie you cant do everything like you would like foe example shooting with flash at 1/160 instead of 1/250 or the camera doesn’t have a wired remote or the evf is super small and low rez etc etc

let me guess you own one?

I think the issues is it felt like your earlier post was generalising your experience to everyone. I.e. nobody will be happy with this as their main camera. Clearly that’s not the case: some of us are. But you’re also right that there are limitations, as with any camera, and people should be away of them and consider them when making decisions. If they’re important to you then you’ll likely not be happy. If you don’t care about dual card slots or fast sync speeds it may be a different matter.

It has nothing to do with being happy or not. some people get super defensive when you touch their toy and start moaning doesnt change the reality

the A7CR is a compact version of the A7R V and has some limitations the larger camera doesn’t have

Shutter speed example there is a difference of one stop.

You are out on a bright sunny day with a fast prime. You find out that you need to stop down to f/2.8 instead of shooting f/2.

now someone can say well i dont have a fast prime or dont want to shoot f/2 thats fine but if you did you would be limited and have to get an ND filter

SD card only will limit the effective burst speed to a very low value once the buffer is full unlike the A7R V. You may say I only take single shot thats fine but when you will want to take a long burst and the camera starts writing 1fps you will be limited

the C series now dont have a wired shutter option you will need to buy the Sony remote or control the camera with the phone. You may be happy to do so but you have no alternative

the small body comes with compromises and you need to be aware of the limitations

in addition the small size advantage vanishes when you put a large lens on the camera at that point the ergonomics are better with a bigger body

this doens make it a bad camera or something you should never buy but for some people the limitations would be frustrating like the op has discovered and perhaps going full size is better

i guess many users get excited by megapixels but those are less Important than not being able taking the shot you wanted

 

[wheresrunnicles]

This camera series has efcs only, slower sync speed, low resolution evf and screen single sd card

and most likely some other internal electronics limitations such as ram buffer

if you thought of getting one of this as an all around camera you will be disappointed none of the c cameras are

Those "limitations" are dependent on your shooting style. I switched to a7CR from a7IV and I have yet to be disappointed with any "limitation".

EFCS-only - never had any issues

Slower-sync speed - I don't use flash

Low resolution EVF/screen - they both are perfectly fine for me

Single-SD card - buy a good card from a reputable company. Sure that could fail too, but, then there are other things that could fail on your camera.

A primary camera does not have them. If you are happy with it is up to you but remain limitations to a number of use cases

What's a "primary camera"? Every model has its own limitations. You as a consumer should buy the one that suits you the best. Just because it does not suit you does not make it a bad camera.

limitations dont make something bad they make it limited ie you cant do everything like you would like foe example shooting with flash at 1/160 instead of 1/250 or the camera doesn’t have a wired remote or the evf is super small and low rez etc etc

let me guess you own one?

I think the issues is it felt like your earlier post was generalising your experience to everyone. I.e. nobody will be happy with this as their main camera. Clearly that’s not the case: some of us are. But you’re also right that there are limitations, as with any camera, and people should be away of them and consider them when making decisions. If they’re important to you then you’ll likely not be happy. If you don’t care about dual card slots or fast sync speeds it may be a different matter.

It has nothing to do with being happy or not. some people get super defensive when you touch their toy and start moaning doesnt change the reality

the A7CR is a compact version of the A7R V and has some limitations the larger camera doesn’t have

Shutter speed example there is a difference of one stop.

You are out on a bright sunny day with a fast prime. You find out that you need to stop down to f/2.8 instead of shooting f/2.

now someone can say well i dont have a fast prime or dont want to shoot f/2 thats fine but if you did you would be limited and have to get an ND filter

SD card only will limit the effective burst speed to a very low value once the buffer is full unlike the A7R V. You may say I only take single shot thats fine but when you will want to take a long burst and the camera starts writing 1fps you will be limited

the C series now dont have a wired shutter option you will need to buy the Sony remote or control the camera with the phone. You may be happy to do so but you have no alternative

the small body comes with compromises and you need to be aware of the limitations

in addition the small size advantage vanishes when you put a large lens on the camera at that point the ergonomics are better with a bigger body

this doens make it a bad camera or something you should never buy but for some people the limitations would be frustrating like the op has discovered and perhaps going full size is better

i guess many users get excited by megapixels but those are less Important than not being able taking the shot you wanted