Nikon z8 front focuses

[Evensen]

Hello everyone.
I have bought a new Nikon Z8 and previously had a Sony A7rv, I am satisfied with the camera in general but not the autofocus, the Sony autofocus was probably better in several ways.
I have a Nikon z 600mm pf f6.3 with the Z8 and with this lens the camera focuses in front of the object when I use AF-C and bird eye search, I have tested this countless times on birds outside and a stuffed bird inside under controlled conditions with all types of AF. What I have come to with this is that it is worst when there is little light, but it also happens sometimes with good light. I have tested the camera with AF-S and point focus and bird's eye focus, then the focus is correct. there is also a fine tuning of the focus inside the Z8 and I see that when I set it between +3 and +5 the focus hits much better, but I can't imagine that such a flagship camera and quality lens would be necessary ( s-lens) ?.. Is it wrong with the camera or is it not better?, has anyone experienced something similar?

 

[TheSoaringSprite]

Hello everyone.
I have bought a new Nikon Z8 and previously had a Sony A7rv, I am satisfied with the camera in general but not the autofocus, the Sony autofocus was probably better in several ways.
I have a Nikon z 600mm pf f6.3 with the Z8 and with this lens the camera focuses in front of the object when I use AF-C and bird eye search, I have tested this countless times on birds outside and a stuffed bird inside under controlled conditions with all types of AF. What I have come to with this is that it is worst when there is little light, but it also happens sometimes with good light. I have tested the camera with AF-S and point focus and bird's eye focus, then the focus is correct. there is also a fine tuning of the focus inside the Z8 and I see that when I set it between +3 and +5 the focus hits much better, but I can't imagine that such a flagship camera and quality lens would be necessary ( s-lens) ?.. Is it wrong with the camera or is it not better?, has anyone experienced something similar?

Have you looked at the original NEF files in NX Studio with the focus point turned on? It shows you exactly where focus landed.

If I felt I was doing everything right and the camera was still missing focus, I would exchange it ASAP. My Z8 is spot-on regardless of the AF settings I'm using, unless I screw something up. I would be very unhappy if I found mine front or back-focusing with every lens I own. You should not be experiencing this problem.

 

[kelly15]

Hello everyone.
I have bought a new Nikon Z8 and previously had a Sony A7rv, I am satisfied with the camera in general but not the autofocus, the Sony autofocus was probably better in several ways.
I have a Nikon z 600mm pf f6.3 with the Z8 and with this lens the camera focuses in front of the object when I use AF-C and bird eye search, I have tested this countless times on birds outside and a stuffed bird inside under controlled conditions with all types of AF. What I have come to with this is that it is worst when there is little light, but it also happens sometimes with good light. I have tested the camera with AF-S and point focus and bird's eye focus, then the focus is correct. there is also a fine tuning of the focus inside the Z8 and I see that when I set it between +3 and +5 the focus hits much better, but I can't imagine that such a flagship camera and quality lens would be necessary ( s-lens) ?.. Is it wrong with the camera or is it not better?, has anyone experienced something similar?

I’m facing the same concern with my Zf. Very similar AF system.

Instead of the eye, with eye AF, the zone between nose and eye are better in focus.

85 mm 1.8/2.8 half person portrait.

Do you think fine tuning focus will help?

Is this to be done once or for any lens?

 

[j_photo]

Have you looked at the original NEF files in NX Studio with the focus point turned on? It shows you exactly where focus landed.

Not wanting to sound argumentative, but the location of the focus point displayed in NX Studio doesn't guarantee that's where the camera actually focused ("where focus landed"). For a number of reasons, the two can differ.

 

[sirhawkeye64]

Hello everyone.
I have bought a new Nikon Z8 and previously had a Sony A7rv, I am satisfied with the camera in general but not the autofocus, the Sony autofocus was probably better in several ways.
I have a Nikon z 600mm pf f6.3 with the Z8 and with this lens the camera focuses in front of the object when I use AF-C and bird eye search, I have tested this countless times on birds outside and a stuffed bird inside under controlled conditions with all types of AF. What I have come to with this is that it is worst when there is little light, but it also happens sometimes with good light. I have tested the camera with AF-S and point focus and bird's eye focus, then the focus is correct. there is also a fine tuning of the focus inside the Z8 and I see that when I set it between +3 and +5 the focus hits much better, but I can't imagine that such a flagship camera and quality lens would be necessary ( s-lens) ?.. Is it wrong with the camera or is it not better?, has anyone experienced something similar?

Do you have firmware v2.0 installed? If not, maybe update it and try your tests again. I believe they did improve AF in v2.0.

 

[TheSoaringSprite]

Have you looked at the original NEF files in NX Studio with the focus point turned on? It shows you exactly where focus landed.

Not wanting to sound argumentative, but the location of the focus point displayed in NX Studio doesn't guarantee that's where the camera actually focused ("where focus landed"). For a number of reasons, the two can differ.

Yes, sometimes that can happen, especially with the auto modes, but if you're testing the AF in AF-S mode on a still subject on a tripod, it's easier to tell whether the camera is front or back focusing. You can see where the focus box is located and you can see what part of the image is actually sharp. Repeat this test at different apertures and focal lengths, and you begin to see a pattern. If the result comes back as inconsistent, that's still concerning. My Z8 is very consistent from my experience with it so far.

Another poster mentioned the 2.0 firmware update. Yes, definitely check if that's been installed. If not, do so and try again.

 

[Andre Yew]

Not wanting to sound argumentative, but the location of the focus point displayed in NX Studio doesn't guarantee that's where the camera actually focused ("where focus landed"). For a number of reasons, the two can differ.

Yes, and even when the camera indicates the eye clearly and steadily in the viewfinder, the focus can still change away from it. I just saw this recently with a Z9 (with V5.0 firmware) with a 24-70/2.8S shooting a person whose face was half hidden by a cake. The camera drew a square around her eye in AF-C Wide-L, Wide-S, and 3D, but the focus kept racking back and forth from her eye to the front of the cake (which had some flower detail) despite the AF box not touching the cake at all by a wide margin. Switching to single-point AF fixed this problem. The camera was locked on a tripod, and the person wasn't moving.

I suspect Nikon's AF heuristics can try to be too smart for its own good. With the restricted modes like Wide-L or Wide-S, it can recognize a human subject even if the AF box is say on their torso. It will detect the head and eyes outside of the AF box, draw its boxes there, and focus there. This can be very helpful in fast moving situations, but I'm guessing it can be fooled too.

 

[Models By Day]

Why the downgrade to a Z8 from A7rv :-D

 

[Leonard Shepherd]

Sample images would help.

I find with the Z8 (&9) when the subject is reasonable good for AF, AF performs brilliant.

With a less than ideal subject AF sometimes does not perform so well.

 

[Tom Stites]

As you may or may not be aware, the "Wide Area" modes all have a nearest object priority and you may be seeing that override the Eye AF at times if the camera momentarily loses the eye to a high contrast area near the eye." It seems to me that this happens so quickly sometimes that the display may not have time to update the loss and recapture in the VF...just a theory, though.

Auto Area and 3D tracking do not have the same closest object priority and I've found I can get better results using 3D tracking with subject detection (birds) on...especially small birds in clutter and the latest firmware. You might want to try these modes, if you haven't.

Cheers!

 

[Vermillion]

I doubt there's anything wrong with the camera.

While I'm very happy with the performance personally, I think Canon and Sony still are a bit more reliable in that regard. What you described definitely happens with the Z8, but mostly in more challenging situations, like low light, the face being very dark or the head being tilted away. Usually happens when the camera isn't able to grab the eye and draws the box around the head instead. In this case, it seems to often focus on whatever is the closest inside the box, instead of the eyes.

In good conditions, the hit rate with my 800 PF is pretty much 100%.

 

[Evensen]

hi everyone,

thanks for a lot of good input, I can't answer them all specifically, but to clarify most things. I have the latest firmware installed ( 2.0 ), I have tried all possible combinations of AF settings, I have tested inside under controlled conditions with a stuffed bird (with nothing in the foreground) and outside in real life, I think I have taken many thousand test images and I am reasonably sure that it focuses in front of the object as I have written in my previous post (so much in front that the eye of the bird just comes a little within the sharpness area but the rest of the head of the bird is out of focus and I see that the image is sharp far in front of the bird ), and when I mean a little low light, it is not very dark but not exactly sunshine, so it is not a question of challenging situations. I never had such problems with my Sony A7rv, and the reason I switched from Sony to Nikon was Sony's slow sensor reading with electronic shutter, I got a lot of deformed bird wings and I couldn't use mechanical shutter because of the sound so scared the birds.

 

[Comalv]

hi everyone,

thanks for a lot of good input, I can't answer them all specifically, but to clarify most things. I have the latest firmware installed ( 2.0 ), I have tried all possible combinations of AF settings, I have tested inside under controlled conditions with a stuffed bird (with nothing in the foreground) and outside in real life, I think I have taken many thousand test images and I am reasonably sure that it focuses in front of the object as I have written in my previous post (so much in front that the eye of the bird just comes a little within the sharpness area but the rest of the head of the bird is out of focus and I see that the image is sharp far in front of the bird ), and when I mean a little low light, it is not very dark but not exactly sunshine, so it is not a question of challenging situations. I never had such problems with my Sony A7rv, and the reason I switched from Sony to Nikon was Sony's slow sensor reading with electronic shutter, I got a lot of deformed bird wings and I couldn't use mechanical shutter because of the sound so scared the birds.

Barring user error (which in a forum we have no way of checking), I'd send it in for tuning. It shouldn't do that. From my experience the Z9 (which is pretty much the same AF tech as the Z8) never misses focus on stationary targets and I have a 95%+ hit rate on slowly moving targets (models posing dynamically) as well with an f/1.2 lens.

The thing that helped me the most to get to that 95% focus accuracy is switching VR from Auto to Sport (and reminding myself that while it is an awesome camera I still have to wield it correctly and not just 1-hand it or stuff like that)

 

[Models By Day]

Have you checked the focus point that the camera saves using NX Studio.

 

[SCoombs]

Frankly I've always found AF on my Z8 a bit wonky and had for a long while attributed this to the various lenses I've had, but as I've gotten more and higher quality lenses I've started to wonder if there's something with the camera.

On a flat, inanimate target the focus does seem very consistent.

With living creatures where there is an eye to worry about it seems more inconsistent, and this is worse indoors/in lower light than in better light, but I don't even mean light that's THAT bad, just light low enough to give an ISO >1000 or so for a shutter speed sufficient to eliminate most motion.

With my better lenses, I'll get in these situations some very nicely spot on focus but also some where the eye is a bit soft. With my more average quality lenses I'll get a *lot* where the eye is a bit soft and a good number where the focus is far enough off that I wouldn't even consider using it. I also usually get a few nice in focus ones IF I take a lot of shots.

I've read a lot of people over the years complaining about the Z9/8 having "eyelash focus" where it often grabs the area around the eye rather than the eye, and I've seen this a lot. Others say they've not had this problem. In the last few days I started to experiment with setting a + AF fine tune to force the camera to get closer to the eye, which sounds similar to what you report, OP.

The reason I started experimenting with this is interesting. I just got a 500pf, a very high quality lens by any measure. Reikan FoCal, on a flat target, wants it at -1. Yet messing around shooting the cat I was finding the eye was always just a bit soft. On a whim I put in +1 and found I was much more consistently getting the eye sharp.

I then put in my 85/1.8S to check people. It was a bit too dark to really try it with much confidence but initial impressions are that setting it to +1 seemed a bit more consistent. I'll likely test this more today.

 

[Bob A L]

Wow, I never dreamed that af on the z8 would have such tendencies. I would be really disappointed if I spent that much on a camera and it frequently misfocused.

 

[Bob A L]

Is this problem noted in all forms of af configuration? Or is it only when using some form of af tracking and/or subject detection. Have you experimented with manually selecting focus point and locking focus on that point prior to shutter trip?

 

[SeanESean]

I doubt there's anything wrong with the camera.

While I'm very happy with the performance personally, I think Canon and Sony still are a bit more reliable in that regard. What you described definitely happens with the Z8, but mostly in more challenging situations, like low light, the face being very dark or the head being tilted away. Usually happens when the camera isn't able to grab the eye and draws the box around the head instead. In this case, it seems to often focus on whatever is the closest inside the box, instead of the eyes.

In good conditions, the hit rate with my 800 PF is pretty much 100%.

Reliable, or more user friendly? Relevant IMO as I am not a pro and learning a lot. Often this may be the case. Not sure of this instance.

 

[ericbowles]

Hello everyone.
I have bought a new Nikon Z8 and previously had a Sony A7rv, I am satisfied with the camera in general but not the autofocus, the Sony autofocus was probably better in several ways.
I have a Nikon z 600mm pf f6.3 with the Z8 and with this lens the camera focuses in front of the object when I use AF-C and bird eye search, I have tested this countless times on birds outside and a stuffed bird inside under controlled conditions with all types of AF. What I have come to with this is that it is worst when there is little light, but it also happens sometimes with good light. I have tested the camera with AF-S and point focus and bird's eye focus, then the focus is correct. there is also a fine tuning of the focus inside the Z8 and I see that when I set it between +3 and +5 the focus hits much better, but I can't imagine that such a flagship camera and quality lens would be necessary ( s-lens) ?.. Is it wrong with the camera or is it not better?, has anyone experienced something similar?

For the purpose of AF fine tuning, I would only use a proper test target set square to the camera with a diagonal ruler or scale to judge the AF error amount and direction. Live subjects, angled or rounded targets, and other approaches may indicate a potential problem, but don't confirm it. If you send the camera and lens for AF Fine tuning, or to Nikon for service, they will use a flat test target.

I have see AF errors even when there is confirmation. In some cases the errors were with an eye at relatively close range. The camera is not able to choose what part of the eye is the focus target, and in some cases it may focus on the edge of the eye rather than a catchlight or the pupil. Many of the AF modes use nearest subject priority, so if you have a lack of clarity on the target, the camera chooses the closest target.

I would not expect the Z8 and a Z lens to need AF Fine Tuning. It's possible - but very uncommon. The most common cases for fine tuning are when using an older F-mount lens (not a recent version) or when there is damage. Missed focus is something completely different - and you can certainly miss focus even when there is confirmation although that would be irregular enough that AF fine tuning would not be indicated.

I'm on my fourth Z camera and have never had to fine tune Z lenses. Even with an F-mount 70-200 lens in need of repair, the Z cameras provided perfect focus while my D850 showed a large AF error.

 

[duncang]

Hello everyone.
I have bought a new Nikon Z8 and previously had a Sony A7rv, I am satisfied with the camera in general but not the autofocus, the Sony autofocus was probably better in several ways.
I have a Nikon z 600mm pf f6.3 with the Z8 and with this lens the camera focuses in front of the object when I use AF-C and bird eye search, I have tested this countless times on birds outside and a stuffed bird inside under controlled conditions with all types of AF. What I have come to with this is that it is worst when there is little light, but it also happens sometimes with good light. I have tested the camera with AF-S and point focus and bird's eye focus, then the focus is correct. there is also a fine tuning of the focus inside the Z8 and I see that when I set it between +3 and +5 the focus hits much better, but I can't imagine that such a flagship camera and quality lens would be necessary ( s-lens) ?.. Is it wrong with the camera or is it not better?, has anyone experienced something similar?

In my testing the Z8/Z9 were consistently inconsistent compared to what I am used to with Sony - tested with a range of lenses on still subjects and BIF.

The amount of inconsistency appears to vary depending on the scene.