old 500mm f4 or new 180-600mm

[Lars erik Nes]

Hi all

I am struggling with a decision. Currently using z6 and z7 and z100-400mm and 70-200

As a newbie bird photographer i want something with more reach and the new 180-600 looks very promising. But it is f6.3 and is that good enough ?

I have been looking at older 500mm f4 (G) and they are about the same price as the new 180-600mm. i would buy the 400/2.8 if i could afford it, but bird photography is just a hobby and i can not justify that price.

What would you buy? Old f lens or new 180-600?

Tnx for your input

 

[Fredrik Glckner]

f/6.3 is usually enough for birds. Much of the time, you'll need to stop down to f/6.3 or more anyway to get enough depth of field for the bird to be mostly in focus.
The 500mm f/4 sounds like a bit of an overkill for a newbie. The 180-600mm lens is much more versatile and can be used more flexibly.


Both lenses are fairly heavy, and you cannot swing them around for an extended period without support. So they require using a tripod if you are going to be using them over time, in my opinion. The 180-600mm is probably good for using on a tripod from a wildlife blind, since you can zoom depending on where your subject is.


If you are going to be photographing birds in flight, I would be worried that the 500mm f/4 may not be fast enough in terms of focusing.


Personally, I would go for a newer Z lens if possible.

 

[BasilG]

Hi all

I am struggling with a decision. Currently using z6 and z7 and z100-400mm and 70-200

As a newbie bird photographer i want something with more reach and the new 180-600 looks very promising. But it is f6.3 and is that good enough ?

I have been looking at older 500mm f4 (G) and they are about the same price as the new 180-600mm. i would buy the 400/2.8 if i could afford it, but bird photography is just a hobby and i can not justify that price.

What would you buy? Old f lens or new 180-600?

Tnx for your input

Did you consider getting a 500/5.6 PF on the used market? Probably a bit more expensive than a 180-600, but not prohibitively so (hopefully).

 

[Fredrik Glckner]

As you already have the 100-400mm lens, you could just get the 1.4x TC and see how that flies? This should be the cheapest solution and is a good way to test some birding.

 

[Lars erik Nes]

I already have the 1.4 tc, but since i am also considering the 180-600 i can also use the tc on that lens. So i am steering against 100-400 when doing landscape and 180-600mm for birding and then use the tc when i want maximum reach....

I might end up selling the 100-400 and just use the 70-200 with tc for landscape and 180-600 for birds. (but i really like the iq i get from the 100-400 so thats a hard decision)

and yea...i know this is a luxury problem ;-)

 

[JoyfulDay]

I already have the 1.4 tc, but since i am also considering the 180-600 i can also use the tc on that lens. So i am steering against 100-400 when doing landscape and 180-600mm for birding and then use the tc when i want maximum reach....

I might end up selling the 100-400 and just use the 70-200 with tc for landscape and 180-600 for birds. (but i really like the iq i get from the 100-400 so thats a hard decision)

and yea...i know this is a luxury problem ;-)

I decided to stick with 100-400 and 1.4 tc as the 180-600 is substantially heavier.

But I also own the 200-500mm f mount (+ f mount tc 1.4) which is mostly attached to the d500. It is also quite good on the z8. The weight is a limiting factor here for longer hikes.

It always helped me to go to the shop and try the product before buying, at least holding it decide how much weight I want to carry around.

500mm pf is tempting, but it's more difficult to operate as there is is no zoom out to find the subject.

 

[shuncheung]

Hi all

I am struggling with a decision. Currently using z6 and z7 and z100-400mm and 70-200

As a newbie bird photographer i want something with more reach and the new 180-600 looks very promising. But it is f6.3 and is that good enough ?

I have been looking at older 500mm f4 (G) and they are about the same price as the new 180-600mm. i would buy the 400/2.8 if i could afford it, but bird photography is just a hobby and i can not justify that price.

What would you buy? Old f lens or new 180-600?

Tnx for your input

With so many native Z mount tele lens choices, I wouldn’t buy an F mount lens to adapt that to a Z body. f6.3 is ok. I have been using a 800mm/f6.3 for close to a year.

 

[areallygrumpyoldsod]

Hi all

I am struggling with a decision. Currently using z6 and z7 and z100-400mm and 70-200

As a newbie bird photographer i want something with more reach and the new 180-600 looks very promising. But it is f6.3 and is that good enough ?

I have been looking at older 500mm f4 (G) and they are about the same price as the new 180-600mm. i would buy the 400/2.8 if i could afford it, but bird photography is just a hobby and i can not justify that price.

What would you buy? Old f lens or new 180-600?

Tnx for your input

You probably should include the new 600 PF into your decision process.

Simply put the NIKKOR Z 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR is a great value cheap lens and far more flexible. The reviews I have read show this to be a good lens for those on a budget. AND a huge step up from the 200-500.

Your cheapest option, since you already have the 100-400, is to just but a ZTC14 to extend the reach to 560mm - this works really well and turns the NIKKOR Z 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 VR S - to a 140-560 f/6.3-8.0 -- f/8 works great in good light. BUT will be very dark nreat sunrise, sunset and on gloomy days.

NEXT is the 600/6.3 PF -- this is a worthy successor to the AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/5.6 PF ED VR - there is only 1/3rd of a stop difference. BUT the 500 needs the FTZ adapter and has fewer Z controls.

Good enough -- well this depends on what light you shoot in. I have no worries shooting in ANY ISO level

I suggest your biggest issue will be to address the AF weaknesses in the Z bodies you are using when trying to shoot wildlife/Birds, rather than just buying new glass.

A Zf or any of the new III models expected next year would be good investments.

My guidance would be to wait to see how much the prices of the 500 PF drop as folk switch to the new Z 600 PF and to see what Nikon delivers by April 2024 in terms of new bodies. Since I prefer CF express Type B over SD/UHS ii I will not go for the Zf and am happy to wait to replace my Z6ii.

 

[Sergio Image]

I'm still practicing with it but so far I'm loving my 180-600.

 

[Lars erik Nes]

Tnx. yea i had the 200-500 before i got the 100-400. It was a great lens, big and heavy yes so i didnt use it for long hikes.

 

[BernhardF]

You might find some useful info here:

Best Super-Telephoto Lenses for Nikon Z Cameras: 8 Tested

photographylife.com

 

[AlainCh2]

Tnx. yea i had the 200-500 before i got the 100-400. It was a great lens, big and heavy yes so i didnt use it for long hikes.

I have the 180-600Z.... with pleasure I discovered I could shoot handhelds with my ailing wrist, and age doesn't help muscles either.

I suggest the Zoom over fixed lens because often you cannot step back or swim to get a better composition :-D

One little consideration: economics.

The 180-600Z is a new lens and will be easier - more valuable if you consider selling it.
Any F mount is at loss in that regard.

I've bought two AF-P lenses for myself I will never get rid of 70-300E 10-20mm.
They are splendid on FTZ and cheap, really cheap used.

I also bought a used AF Sigma 150-600C with TC (800€ + 160€) to understand if birds and other subjects would have been of interest. It was a fantastic sharp specimen.
After 5 months I sold it at a 22% loss.

Understood what are my shooting interests, and for a better handling, I happily spent 2.000€ on that lens.
Knowing that I will never lose the same amount, even if I sell it in one year, helped to make the decision.

Never been so happy.
It's sharper, I can now shoot handheld...

...and birds love it > see the last pics!!


The mountains in the background are 22Km away, the Solitaire tree is 2.2km - Handheld


42mt away. Even Crows start to sing when they see the 180-600Z. - Handheld

--
___.............................!............................ ___
Mid of French/Italian Alps - Hardiness Zone 8A
I Love all Carnivores, I have mostly Red Dioneas.
https://eu.zonerama.com/AlainCH2/1191151

 

[jhde]

The f-mount 500mm f/4 lenses are much heavier and larger than the z-mount 180-600. When I owned a 500/4 E f-mount, I had to use a monopod or tripod almost all of the time. I am able to hand carry my 180-600 with a cross body strap and hand hold it w/o issues on hikes. For the price, the 180-600 is an excellent choice.

 

[dgumshu]

Hi all

I am struggling with a decision. Currently using z6 and z7 and z100-400mm and 70-200

As a newbie bird photographer i want something with more reach and the new 180-600 looks very promising. But it is f6.3 and is that good enough ?

I have been looking at older 500mm f4 (G) and they are about the same price as the new 180-600mm. i would buy the 400/2.8 if i could afford it, but bird photography is just a hobby and i can not justify that price.

What would you buy? Old f lens or new 180-600?

Tnx for your input

With zooms in the 600mm range, you will find F6.3 to be the norm. Yes, F4 on a 500mm would be better, but also heavier and more difficult to handle. I would not hesitate to get the 180-600. It’s a great lens at an affordable price.

 

[JasonTheBirder]

Hi all

I am struggling with a decision. Currently using z6 and z7 and z100-400mm and 70-200

As a newbie bird photographer i want something with more reach and the new 180-600 looks very promising. But it is f6.3 and is that good enough ?

I have been looking at older 500mm f4 (G) and they are about the same price as the new 180-600mm. i would buy the 400/2.8 if i could afford it, but bird photography is just a hobby and i can not justify that price.

What would you buy? Old f lens or new 180-600?

Used 500mm f/5.6 PF. It is sharper and lighter than both, and not much more expensive. If you're used to the 100-400, the 500G will be too heavy.

 

[rcower]

The only advantage to buying the 500 f4 is you can get one immediately, with the 180-600 you’re going to wait.

 

[shuncheung]

The only advantage to buying the 500 f4 is you can get one immediately, with the 180-600 you’re going to wait.

The OP already found the F-mount 200-500mm/f5.6 heavy. Any 500mm/f4 is going to be worse. Probably the only F-mount lens I might consider is the 500mm/f5.6 PF.

The 180-600 has the big advantage as a native Z-mount lens, but it is still on the heavier side. I have tried a friend's, and I have no problem hand holding the heavier 800mm/f6.3 PF for a while, but these lenses can get heavy after a long time. I tend to put that down when I am not shooting or use a tripod.

Nikon has already shipped around 10K 180-600. If one orders it now, I assume the wait shouldn't be more than a couple of months, since we approaching the tail end of the shortage. Nikon USA also has the tendency to ship recent orders while some who ordered on day 1 are still waiting.

 

[ajr images]

Here's a photo of the 500mm f4VR plus FTZII and the 180-600 both on Z9 bodies. The lens hood are in the shooting position because that's how the lenses should be used.





The 500 plus FTZII weighs in at 9lb 8 oz and the 180-600 is 5 lb 6 oz.

OK, the 500 gets you to f4 but the 180-600 gives greater flexibility and given its weight and balance, can be handheld for extended periods. I handheld the 500 but you really need a monopod or tripod and gimbal.

The 500mm is old now, so may present a problem with servicing if the AF motor goes bad

I was hesitant to get the 180-600 given that it's not a S lens, but I've found it to be plenty sharp.

I did own the 500PF and it was an excellent lens but I sold it after getting a bunch of Z. telephotos.

I also have the 400mm f4.5 and this works very well on its own or with the 1.4TC f6.3). This combo weighs 3 lb 11 oz.

Here's a comparison of 400 f4.5 and 180-600.





I'm sure that you'd be happy with any of these lenses. It comes down to want you want to pay and size, weight and transportability.

--
Alan

 

[Paddler213]

MPB has a bunch of Nikon 500/5.6 PF lenses, all in Excellent condition, for $1700. As an owner and very satisfied user, that would be my recommendation. Lighter, smaller and faster than any other option at anywhere near the cost. Fully $3000 less than the 600PF and available now.

 

[shuncheung]

Here's a photo of the 500mm f4VR plus FTZII and the 180-600 both on Z9 bodies. The lens hood are in the shooting position because that's how the lenses should be used.



The 500 plus FTZII weighs in at 9lb 8 oz and the 180-600 is 5 lb 6 oz.

I think the different sizes for the two lens hoods exaggerates the difference, but the diameter for the 500/4's front element is much wider, making it a much heavier lens. Since the OP has weight concerns, I wouldn't consider the 500/4, which also implies that you need to beefy tripod and head to support it, adding to the overall weight.