HEIF/HLG Success?

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After a long time shopping and reading, I am thinking about buying an A7iv. In conjunction with that, I want to upgrade my computer to a 4K monitor, and not too long afterward, upgrade our TV to 4K. I would like to get a monitor and a TV that take advantage of what is in the A7iv relative to HDR.

I have read what Gary Friedman thinks of the current state of these HDR attempts, and also the main articles on DPReview about HDR. They are not encouraging.

Last night, I started looking at monitors and TVs. It looks like some of the BenQ monitors have DolbyVision, HDR10, and HLG curves. Looking at current 65 inch OLED TVs, Sony seems to only have Dolbyvision, Samsung seems to have HDR10+ and HLG, and LG seems to have Dolbyvision, HDR10 and HLG.

And it seems like the main bottleneck is that none of the main photo editing software packages will work with HLG.

All this sounds like it is years too early to get success using the HLG capability of the A7iv. What are some of your experiences trying to use HEIF/HLG with the A7iv? Thanks

 

[Interceptor121]

HLG was designed for broadcasting not for editing.

The idea was to deal with evens like football where one part of the pitch is bright and one dark for example.

Today you can edit RAW files in adobe camera raw in HDR and then try to save them in AVIF or JPEG XL. Which can only be displayed by a browser like chrome and of course not be printed

So at the end I am not using HDR. Some images like sunsets and sunrise have HDR tones many don't at all even when you thought.

For example dpreview does not allow me to store an HDR file so can't post an example and neither I can put it on my wordpress files

 

[IdanL123]

I use it. Works great and is beautiful on the new Mac OS.

 

[liopleurodon]

Sony's TVs readily support HLG. I play back my HLG video on my older x950h and it looks stunning. An OLED would be even better. Check rtings.com for info on HDR support (and other specs). If you are contemplating a TV purchase for HDR dolby vision is a must have for watching commercial content from services disney plus or amazon, etc.

On desktop monitors HDR sucks. Most high end monitors use IPS screens with 1:1000 contrast ratios. You'll never see full HDR benefits on a screen like that even if the monitor claims support. IPS does not produce the contrast necessary for HDR to look impressive.

HLG video isn't really meant for editing; its meant as an insta-HDR workflow.

 

[Entropy512]

There's basically no decent content delivery pipeline that is commonly supported for HDR stills.

What works on a single display product won't work on almost any other.

Video is a whole other story - HLG and PQ video is now WIDELY supported. As such, the only decent way to publish stills in a way that is widely compatible is to encode what amounts to a video slideshow.

 

[MonstieurVoid]

There is too much misinformation about HDR photos and videos.

First, the Dolby Vision / HLG support on a monitor is useless if using a computer. Computers today only output in HDR10. Whatever software you use to open your PQ / HLG / Dolby Vision files will convert them to BT.2020 PQ for HDR10.

The HLG mode is used only if you connect directly to the HDMI output on a camera.

The HEIF HLG / PQ files recorded by the camera can viewed only using compatible software (iOS 17 Photos / Adobe Camera Raw).

Any RAW file from any camera can be converted to HEIF / AVIF with PQ or HLG.

 

[pcampus]

Hallo I am trying to play Sony a6700 HLG HIF photos on LG TV OLED models G2 and G3 but I found:

connecting the a6700 to TV via HDMI the TV goes to HLG HDR BT2020 (if the photo is HDR) and the image is so vibrant and real but my photo archive is on a SMB NAS and the camera probably can not act as a SMB client so I only can play images present on the SD card: correct?

Tried Dune HD Pro Vision 4k Solo, Zidoo Z9X Pro, Nvidia Shield, Sony UBP-X700, LG TV internal player, Windows 11 PC (with XnView MP software), Apple TV 4k (2022) (with Owlfiles or FilebrowserTV app to find files on NAS), Apple MAC mini 2023 M2. All of them are HDMI connected to the TVs. Only the last 3 device can play the .HIF of the Sony but the image is far from the one obtained connecting the camera to the TV: dim and pale colors. I think that the HLG curve is not applied on play. But the MAC Preview app correctly show that the Color Profile is "Rec. ITU-R BT.2100 HLG" and I have seen a video from Apple where they talk about EDR rendering for still images that is present on macOS: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10161
I just want to play correctly my photos no editing for now.
I am using the standard software of the MAC to view the photos e.g. Preview: should I try something else that can render correctly HLG still images (just for play an image)?

The LG OLED TV 65G2 is connected by HDMI to MAC mini: correct? Should I use Thunderbolt on the MAC? But the TV has only HDMI so an adapter will be requested.

Suggestions for the settings? I tried HDR on or off on the MAC mini macOS.
With videos HLG h265 .MP4 no problem at all with DuneHD, Zidoo, AppleTV4K (not tried MAC) but with chroma subsampling 4:2:2 only played on Apple TV 4K with Infuse. But Infuse only support video and not still images: correct?

Here some examples of photos and videos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wR8qikvcLKoTXKw2ynviyJtJTAbsHSMm?usp=drive_link

Thank you very much for your help

 

[MonstieurVoid]

You have to use Chrome / Edge on Windows 11 or the Photos app on iOS / macOS. For the Photos app, the image must be imported into the library. Previewing the image from within other apps does not work. You can also use the latest Adobe applications. There is no other way to view HDR photos as of now.

 

[pcampus]

How? Settings? Software used? Which monitor are you using? Have you tried a TV hdmi connected to MAC? Please read my post of yesterday here. Thank you very much for your help

 

[MonstieurVoid]

How? Settings? Software used? Which monitor are you using? Have you tried a TV hdmi connected to MAC? Please read my post of yesterday here. Thank you very much for your help

I have an LG G3 OLED. I run the TV in HGIG mode. You have to use a 4K 120 Hz USB-C DisplayPort to HDMI 2.1 adapter. The adapter needs a custom firmware to work at 4K 120 Hz RGB 10-bit on macOS, and works only on M1 Macs onwards. The custom firmware is available on the MacRumors forum. The M2 MBP has a HDMI 2.1 port and doesn't need an adapter.

I've used the Photos app on iOS / macOS to view HEIF HLG (straight out of camera) & AVIF PQ (exported from Adobe apps). On Windows, I use Adobe apps to open RAW files and export them as AVIF PQ. I have not tried opening a HEIF HLG file in Adobe apps recently. When HDR support was in preview last year, opening HEIF HLG did not work.

 

[pcampus]

I tried HGIG mode on the LG TV 65G2 and on the screen settings of Mac Mini M2 2023 there is a HDR switch (on) so Mac knows that the TV connected by hdmi supports HDR so I think I do not need to use the thunderbolt port on the Mac and an adapter from it to hdmi (the TV has only hdmi ports). On app Photos of the Mac I enabled the switch Full HDR. Both with Photos or Finder (Preview in italian Anteprima) the photos from Sony a6700 are rendered as blown out with respect to how they appear (very much realistic) if I connect the a6700 to the LG TV by hdmi and using the same image setting on the TV (usually I use filmaker mode). Does Mac mini M2 2023 with hdmi connected LG TV G2 or G3 support a correct rendering of Sony HLG HIF photos? And same question but with Apple TV 4K 2022 instead of Mac Mini but with same TV connected by hdmi? Both Apple TV 4K and Mac mini do not support directly HLG but they should convert it correctly to HDR10 but is this conversion correct and should look the same as connect the a6700 to the TV directly? In the last case the TV goes to HLG HDR mode whereas with Mac or Apple Tv 4k the tv goes to HDR mode. Please help me with suggestions. Thank you

 

[MonstieurVoid]

Apple will remap the HLG image into HDR10 (or Dolby Vision if the device supports it). However, the Photos app's rendering of HLG may not be accurate in the first place. The same happens with PQ images. When I export them as PQ in Photoshop (which I assume is accurate) they look different in the Photos app.

I would shoot RAW on Sony and keep the originals for the foreseeable future till HDR formats are better supported so I can finally settle on one. I wouldn't shoot in HLG. There are no tools to easily convert from HLG to PQ or backwards-compatible UltraHDR.

 

[Interceptor121]

I tried HGIG mode on the LG TV 65G2 and on the screen settings of Mac Mini M2 2023 there is a HDR switch (on) so Mac knows that the TV connected by hdmi supports HDR so I think I do not need to use the thunderbolt port on the Mac and an adapter from it to hdmi (the TV has only hdmi ports). On app Photos of the Mac I enabled the switch Full HDR. Both with Photos or Finder (Preview in italian Anteprima) the photos from Sony a6700 are rendered as blown out with respect to how they appear (very much realistic) if I connect the a6700 to the LG TV by hdmi and using the same image setting on the TV (usually I use filmaker mode). Does Mac mini M2 2023 with hdmi connected LG TV G2 or G3 support a correct rendering of Sony HLG HIF photos? And same question but with Apple TV 4K 2022 instead of Mac Mini but with same TV connected by hdmi? Both Apple TV 4K and Mac mini do not support directly HLG but they should convert it correctly to HDR10 but is this conversion correct and should look the same as connect the a6700 to the TV directly? In the last case the TV goes to HLG HDR mode whereas with Mac or Apple Tv 4k the tv goes to HDR mode. Please help me with suggestions. Thank you

Computers do not support HLG and this is the issue

If you put the image on the Tv it should display correctly

HLG is designed for broadcast and display and adapts to the ability of the display itself

Computers instead use a fixed mapping and support HDR10 and others

Which has been the issue with HLG since the outset in essence a format you are not supposed to edit and Tv would do the work to adapt

 

[pcampus]

I would shoot RAW on Sony and keep the originals for the foreseeable future till HDR formats are better supported so I can finally settle on one. I wouldn't shoot in HLG. There are no tools to easily convert from HLG to PQ or backwards-compatible UltraHDR.

thanks but the HLG .HIF sony photos are so realistic and beutiful that I do not want to give up and so I have to find a solution or use the camera as a media player. Sony should make a device similar to Apple TV 4K with ethernet but with HLG photo support and with support to NAS SMB to load photos from a NAS

 

[MonstieurVoid]

RAW is HDR. Just export it to a format the Photos app can read like PQ.

 

[pcampus]

Computers do not support HLG and this is the issue

If you put the image on the Tv it should display correctly

HLG is designed for broadcast and display and adapts to the ability of the display itself

Computers instead use a fixed mapping and support HDR10 and others

Which has been the issue with HLG since the outset in essence a format you are not supposed to edit and Tv would do the work to adapt

thanks with "put the image on the Tv" you mean to use the LG TV internal photo/video player? Feeding it by USB or DLNA? Unfortunately LG TVs do not support SMB NAS for what I know: correct? Unfortunately LG TV G2 and G3 can not play (by internal player) the .HIF HLG Sony photos but they have some limited support to HEIF photos. I know that some Panasonic TVs have on the specifications "HLG PHOTO" but I do not have such brand TVs. I will write to LG if they can improve HEIF support to include 26 Mega pixel and HLG now I think there is at least a limit on resolution. Apple TV 4K 2022 and Mac Mini M2 2023 do not support HDMI output on HLG but some android device that I have do: Zidoo Z9XPRO and Dune HD ProVision4KSolo but they can not play Sony HLG photos. Sony should make a similar HDMI device with HLG photos support and SMB NAS support to load photos from a NAS on the same LAN and display them on a TV: is there any? Can Sony Blu-ray player do it? I tried UBP-X700 and can not. Other suggestions? thank you

 

[MonstieurVoid]

Stop trying to use HLG files straight of the camera. It's not a widely supported format for HDR. Convert from RAW to PQ or Ultra HDR instead.

 

[Interceptor121]

Computers do not support HLG and this is the issue

If you put the image on the Tv it should display correctly

HLG is designed for broadcast and display and adapts to the ability of the display itself

Computers instead use a fixed mapping and support HDR10 and others

Which has been the issue with HLG since the outset in essence a format you are not supposed to edit and Tv would do the work to adapt

thanks with "put the image on the Tv" you mean to use the LG TV internal photo/video player? Feeding it by USB or DLNA? Unfortunately LG TVs do not support SMB NAS for what I know: correct? Unfortunately LG TV G2 and G3 can not play (by internal player) the .HIF HLG Sony photos but they have some limited support to HEIF photos. I know that some Panasonic TVs have on the specifications "HLG PHOTO" but I do not have such brand TVs. I will write to LG if they can improve HEIF support to include 26 Mega pixel and HLG now I think there is at least a limit on resolution. Apple TV 4K 2022 and Mac Mini M2 2023 do not support HDMI output on HLG but some android device that I have do: Zidoo Z9XPRO and Dune HD ProVision4KSolo but they can not play Sony HLG photos. Sony should make a similar HDMI device with HLG photos support and SMB NAS support to load photos from a NAS on the same LAN and display them on a TV: is there any? Can Sony Blu-ray player do it? I tried UBP-X700 and can not. Other suggestions? thank you

I have only LG tv and you can use DNLA to browse a NAS so that is possible.

The Tv supports all HDR standards in use, HDR10, HLG and Dolby Vision however I have not checked if it actually read HIF files that can be played on iPhones

The problem is that there is no standardised format for HDR photos there are several options but none is taking the lead

 

[Entropy512]

RAW is HDR. Just export it to a format the Photos app can read like PQ.

Yup. Some RAW processing applications don't have the best support for exporting PQ or HLG images, although the workaround here is to export 16-bit Rec. 2020 linear TIFF and then convert that as needed. For example, the best compatibility I have found so far, even for still images, is to encode a still image as a Rec. 2020 HLG or PQ video. Since there's no motion, the additional frames in the video will compress very well/have a very low bitrate. I have yet to see any method of delivering HLG ot PQ content that compares even remotely to an H.265 video stream in terms of broad compatibility.

 

[pcampus]

Yes thank you but you have to convert each photo two times first to tiff and then to MP4 video and at the end is the result accurate to the scene taken as the one obtained by a HLG out of the camera? Moreover the video is 4k and so around 8 mega pixel and you lose the possibility of zoom into the scene.. a6700 is 26 mega pixel. I do not want to spend so much time on converting each photo. It is crazy that on video HLG is standard but not on single frame (still image)