Fv

[MasterWayne]

Conceptually, I think that a good way to look at it is that Fv is Av, Tv, M and P all in one.

Think of it as starting in manual mode. You manually control all three exposure parameters, shutter, aperture, and ISO. You can, at will, set any one or more of those parameters to Auto. Set the shutter to Auto and you're in Av mode. Set the aperture to auto and you're in Tv mode. Set them both to auto and you're in P mode. And in all cases you can quickly and easily change ISO and/or set that to auto as well.

I don't see why people aren't jumping up and down and yelling about Fv. It's like a fundamental reimagining of exposure modes. There's no longer any need for Av, Tv, M, or P, since they are all contained within Fv.

I don't remember what the default is, but I have the down arrow on the D-Pad set to change the currently selected parameter to Auto on both my R series cameras. They also rarely leave Fv mode.

Let me give you my reasoning why I am not jumping up and down because of it (maybe the outcome is that I have a wrong understanding, which would be awesome).

When getting my R5 as my first canon mirrorless, I immediately tried out Fv, anticipating I would love it. Turns out, Fv always uses just 2 wheels. One to change which setting is under current control, one to change the value of that setting.

I don't get it. Including the lens, my camera has 4 wheels. So it finally gives me the chance to control all 4 exposure settings independently from each other. How awesome would be a Fv mode, that would still let me utilize all 4 wheels?! THEN I would jump up and down.

But instead, I would first need to scroll with one wheel to the setting of interest and then use the other to change the value. As I basically did with my 10 years old entry level 100D.

Just writing this now drives me crazy again..

Well, so here's why it doesn't work for me. I tried it. Tried to love it. Unfortunately didn't make it.

You can set all 4 parameters independently using the wheels/dials you already have. Just need to configure the camera to be able to do that.

I love the Fv mode.

—C

This is the answer I was hoping to get!

But unfortunately I have no idea how to setup the camera as you have mentioned.

I checked all settings in the custom menu. I can only configure the wheels for the M mode. When I switch to Fv, it would ignore the configuration. Instead, the top wheel changes the currently selected value and the mode wheel let's me change which setting is selected currently. The wheel on the back side shows no function.

The lens Ring indeed let's me change ISO, as configured in the custom menu. But that's just 1 direct control out of 4..

I have the control ring for aperture, the front dial for exposure compensation, and keep 99% of the time the fv dial for speed. So I’m working 99% of the time in Av with auto iso. When I need a fixed speed, I just turn the wheel. When I need a fixed iso, I press on screen that’s faster for me.

with Sony I used Av most of the time because i had configured to a button the Av minimum shutter speed and kr was quick, but that’s now possible wirh Canon and that’s why I use Fv.

what I don’t understand is why Fv doesn’t follow the rule for auto iso minimum shutter speed, they should implement that in software instead of having the automatic parameter dependant on the focal length.

OMG.. Just tested it out:

The front/back dial can indeed be used to independently change exposure comp while being in Fv. It cannot be be used to change the shutter speed while being in Fv.

That's why it didn't work for me, I have shutter speed assigned to that wheel.

This is so dumb and unintuitive.

So I need to assign specific settings to the additional wheels, then I can more or less get my 4 wheel Fv..

I'll give it another try, even if it would mean to reassign all my wheels..

Thanks for your reply and pointing me to this conclusion!

 

[Sittatunga]

The lens Ring indeed let's me change ISO, as configured in the custom menu. But that's just 1 direct control out of 4..

But the whole point of Fv mode is that it's an automation exposure mode that gives you all the exposure modes with just two dials

It's the dial in my head that keeps track of which on is active that I don't like. To each, it's own

There's a bright orange half-cog-wheel icon in the viewfinder just to the left of the parameter the front wheel is adjusting. You'll be looking at that display anyway, so you don't need to remember which dial you've programmed to do what, just move the icon with your thumb and adjust the parameter with your forefinger. The rear dial falls naturally under my thumb, the front dial is 16mm behind the shutter release.

so that you don't ever have to change your grip on the camera

Neither method requires a change in grip really

There's a slight change in grip to operate the M-Fn bar and a bigger change to push any of the AF control buttons. Maybe my thumb isn't as agile as yours.

or move your thumb from one dial to the next.

Bit odd to have that preference for thumb when the same doesn't hold for the finger anyway. One has to necessarily jump from shutter to a dial on the other end.

It's easier than using one's middle finger on the shutter release and one's index finger on the dial. But moving my index finger 16mm doesn't change my grip the way moving my thumb 15 to 40mm does.

Besides, all those additional buttons on the back mean people are anyway moving around them (any FV mode users also using BB focus?) unless they aren't using any of those customizable buttons at all

Never got the hang of BB focus - I find there are too many better options for mirrorless.

Expecting to use four dials to do the work of two misses the point of it.

Only when you are changing all 4 of them, else you just change the one you need to. In all 4 case, FV isn't any faster too with all the flipping needed

I can reach any parameter in under a second with FV. That's faster than reaching another rear wheel if I had one. It's also faster to use to adjust ISO on the original R than using the M-Fn button. It's a quick and easy superset of all the Auto modes, so it's not as if I'm going to be adjusting multiple values; I'd be in M mode for that.

With all I have tried and read, no one is missing any point here. It just boils down to operational preferences

--
PicPocket

 

[itsallBb2me]

Conceptually, I think that a good way to look at it is that Fv is Av, Tv, M and P all in one.

Think of it as starting in manual mode. You manually control all three exposure parameters, shutter, aperture, and ISO. You can, at will, set any one or more of those parameters to Auto. Set the shutter to Auto and you're in Av mode. Set the aperture to auto and you're in Tv mode. Set them both to auto and you're in P mode. And in all cases you can quickly and easily change ISO and/or set that to auto as well.

I don't see why people aren't jumping up and down and yelling about Fv. It's like a fundamental reimagining of exposure modes. There's no longer any need for Av, Tv, M, or P, since they are all contained within Fv.

I don't remember what the default is, but I have the down arrow on the D-Pad set to change the currently selected parameter to Auto on both my R series cameras. They also rarely leave Fv mode.

Let me give you my reasoning why I am not jumping up and down because of it (maybe the outcome is that I have a wrong understanding, which would be awesome).

When getting my R5 as my first canon mirrorless, I immediately tried out Fv, anticipating I would love it. Turns out, Fv always uses just 2 wheels. One to change which setting is under current control, one to change the value of that setting.

I don't get it. Including the lens, my camera has 4 wheels. So it finally gives me the chance to control all 4 exposure settings independently from each other. How awesome would be a Fv mode, that would still let me utilize all 4 wheels?! THEN I would jump up and down.

But instead, I would first need to scroll with one wheel to the setting of interest and then use the other to change the value. As I basically did with my 10 years old entry level 100D.

Just writing this now drives me crazy again..

Well, so here's why it doesn't work for me. I tried it. Tried to love it. Unfortunately didn't make it.

You can set all 4 parameters independently using the wheels/dials you already have. Just need to configure the camera to be able to do that.

I love the Fv mode.

—C

This is the answer I was hoping to get!

But unfortunately I have no idea how to setup the camera as you have mentioned.

I checked all settings in the custom menu. I can only configure the wheels for the M mode. When I switch to Fv, it would ignore the configuration. Instead, the top wheel changes the currently selected value and the mode wheel let's me change which setting is selected currently. The wheel on the back side shows no function.

The lens Ring indeed let's me change ISO, as configured in the custom menu. But that's just 1 direct control out of 4..

But the whole point of Fv mode is that it's an automation exposure mode that gives you all the exposure modes with just two dials so that you don't ever have to change your grip on the camera or move your thumb from one dial to the next.

Or take your eye away from the viewfinder. A major benefit, in my opinion.

Expecting to use four dials to do the work of two misses the point of it.

 

[PicPocket]

The lens Ring indeed let's me change ISO, as configured in the custom menu. But that's just 1 direct control out of 4..

But the whole point of Fv mode is that it's an automation exposure mode that gives you all the exposure modes with just two dials

It's the dial in my head that keeps track of which on is active that I don't like. To each, it's own

There's a bright orange half-cog-wheel icon in the viewfinder just to the left of the parameter the front wheel is adjusting. You'll be looking at that display anyway, so you don't need to remember which dial you've programmed to do what, just move the icon with your thumb and adjust the parameter with your forefinger. The rear dial falls naturally under my thumb, the front dial is 16mm behind the shutter release.

I didn't say remember. It's another thing to look at. Instead of being aware of mode in VF, now I'm looking elsewhere. I usually just look at one thing that I am tweaking (in don't use P or full auto ever)

so that you don't ever have to change your grip on the camera

Neither method requires a change in grip really

There's a slight change in grip to operate the M-Fn bar and a bigger change to push any of the AF control buttons. Maybe my thumb isn't as agile as yours.

Those subtle changes happen all the time, unless you don't use any rear buttons at all. I make good use of many of them, so it's quite immaterial

or move your thumb from one dial to the next.

Bit odd to have that preference for thumb when the same doesn't hold for the finger anyway. One has to necessarily jump from shutter to a dial on the other end.

It's easier than using one's middle finger on the shutter release and one's index finger on the dial. But moving my index finger 16mm doesn't change my grip the way moving my thumb 15 to 40mm does.

Moving my thumb across the right side of back doesn't change grip in any material way either. The real support anyway comes for me from left hand with right hand relaxed and nimble to use the controls as needed. A rigid right hand grip works against utilizing controls effectively for me anyway.

Besides, all those additional buttons on the back mean people are anyway moving around them (any FV mode users also using BB focus?) unless they aren't using any of those customizable buttons at all

Never got the hang of BB focus - I find there are too many better options for mirrorless.

But you are aware that many people do. And some options may require use of rear controls or screen too. If one is ignoring all those buttons on the back, it probably isnt covering everyone's preferences

Expecting to use four dials to do the work of two misses the point of it.

Only when you are changing all 4 of them, else you just change the one you need to. In all 4 case, FV isn't any faster too with all the flipping needed

I can reach any parameter in under a second with FV. That's faster than reaching another rear wheel if I had one. It's also faster to use to adjust ISO on the original R than using the M-Fn button. It's a quick and easy superset of all the Auto modes, so it's not as if I'm going to be adjusting multiple values; I'd be in M mode for that.

A second is long enough. Most people would be able to do that in either preference when we exclude adjusting multiple values use case. And for all practical purposes, being a fraction of a second faster isn't going to matter in any real way, this isn't about a race. Mostly, what takes time is to make a decision that now I want to start tweaking the other parameter, not actually doing it. I haven't ever come across having to quickly flip between Av and TV constantly, because if I did I would already be in M. What needs quick flips is that one or at most 2 parameters that I am focusing on which are always on a wheel I have muscle memory for. For me, muscle memory wins over a conscious change

With all I have tried and read, no one is missing any point here. It just boils down to operational preferences

I have given it a try multiple times, so I know my preference well by now. It is simply not something I find more intuitive and simple for me, so we can state our preferences as much as we want, it's not going to change either of our minds. I am fairly convinced of this, but I won't discourage you from trying to sway me over

 

[Banderras]

Using Fv mode, I need to use the front dial to select the parameter that I will be changing with the rear dial. That's not too different form using the mode dial to switch the adjustable parameter.

Example - switching from Tv to Av:
- one click of the mode dial,
or, in Fv mode that would be:
- select shutter speed,
- press bin button to select auto,
- select aperture value.

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds. It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

 

[halfnote]

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds. It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

This is what killed Fv for me. My preference would be for the shutter speed to be sticky and return to the last used value. That value may not be exactly what I want, but it would be a lot closer than either extreme end of the range.

 

[juanmaasecas]

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds. It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

This is what killed Fv for me. My preference would be for the shutter speed to be sticky and return to the last used value. That value may not be exactly what I want, but it would be a lot closer than either extreme end of the range.

If you press the shutter button half way to activate the meter, then you can change the speed from that on the meter, not from the 30”.

 

[chipman02]

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds. It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

This is what killed Fv for me. My preference would be for the shutter speed to be sticky and return to the last used value. That value may not be exactly what I want, but it would be a lot closer than either extreme end of the range.

If you press the shutter button half way to activate the meter, then you can change the speed from that on the meter, not from the 30”.

^^This is what I do, and when I change a setting, it stays at that point until I switch it or turn off the camera.

That's on a R7, so maybe newer version, or some menu setting?

 

[Sittatunga]

Using Fv mode, I need to use the front dial to select the parameter that I will be changing with the rear dial.

I think that's a strange setup; on my camera the wheel with the mode button chooses the parameter for the front wheel to adjust.

That's not too different form using the mode dial to switch the adjustable parameter.

Example - switching from Tv to Av:
- one click of the mode dial,
or, in Fv mode that would be:
- select shutter speed,
- press bin button to select auto,
- select aperture value.

The R and R5 don't have dedicated mode dials, so switching modes would involve

clicking the mode button,

- turning the rear wheel

- clicking the mode button again

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds.

Not if the exposure meter is running. In that case, the camera displays the shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation and ISO it will use; any changes you make to any of them start from the displayed values. The catch is that you can't set Tv, Av or ISO to auto while the exposure meter is running. The quickest way to switch the meter off is to tap the mode button twice.

It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

Starting from the meter suggested value is even more useful.

 

[cocoanud]

This is the answer I was hoping to get!

But unfortunately I have no idea how to setup the camera as you have mentioned.

I checked all settings in the custom menu. I can only configure the wheels for the M mode. When I switch to Fv, it would ignore the configuration. Instead, the top wheel changes the currently selected value and the mode wheel let's me change which setting is selected currently. The wheel on the back side shows no function.

The lens Ring indeed let's me change ISO, as configured in the custom menu. But that's just 1 direct control out of 4..

For R5

• Keep the Fv selector on Tv (ie the rear dial pointed to Tv)
• Lens ring for Av
• Rear thumb wheel for Exposure Compensation
• M-Fn first activation for ISO
• I never move the Fv pointer away from Tv (but I can if I must)

For R8

• Keep the Fv selector on Tv (ie rear dial pointed to Tv)
• Lens ring for Av
• M-Fn first activation for ISO and Exposure Comp. The R8 is better this way because M-Fn activation now engages both front and rear dials only for M-Fn. That way rear dial is ISO and front dial is Exposure Comp. (This of course can also be configured and you can change M-Fn activation to be Exposure Comp and ISO and then the front and rear dials are reversed)
• Never move the Fv pointer away from Tv (unless you have to... but you can if you have to)

In addition to above for both, I have configured short press Bin to reset the currently selected parameter (which in this case is Tv only). But long press of Bin is configured to reset all 4 parameters.

This setup works for me. R8 is better configured than R5 due to the flexibility of M-Fn. Also in the R8 I have completely removed pretty much all of the Q menu and only kept the functions I need so when I press Q only the right edge of the screen is populated and rest of the screen remains clear... this of course is only possible on R8 as R5 doesn't allow customisation of Q menu.

HTH

--C

 

[Zeee]

I used to shoot Av. When I git my R I decided it try Fv and I did like it at first. Only issue when things are busy you need need to move the the curser to the item you want to change. If you forget then then you miss a shot.

Since Auto ISIO is now in M mode I switched to that. One thing about M is you can swap which dials you want for aperture and shutter. It feels very natural. Top dial is for SS. On my R6II the rear dial is for aperture and QC dial is set for EC.

For the R7 I put aperture on the lens ring. I don't like up but I don't change it that often. QC dial is set for EC.

 

[Linkinjunior]

Only issue i'm across when using FV for my R7 is when switching from Photo to Movie. Movie mode doesn't let me set the shutter. Anyone else have this issue?

 

[Lisa Horton]

Conceptually, I think that a good way to look at it is that Fv is Av, Tv, M and P all in one.

Think of it as starting in manual mode. You manually control all three exposure parameters, shutter, aperture, and ISO. You can, at will, set any one or more of those parameters to Auto. Set the shutter to Auto and you're in Av mode. Set the aperture to auto and you're in Tv mode. Set them both to auto and you're in P mode. And in all cases you can quickly and easily change ISO and/or set that to auto as well.

I don't see why people aren't jumping up and down and yelling about Fv. It's like a fundamental reimagining of exposure modes. There's no longer any need for Av, Tv, M, or P, since they are all contained within Fv.

I don't remember what the default is, but I have the down arrow on the D-Pad set to change the currently selected parameter to Auto on both my R series cameras. They also rarely leave Fv mode.

Let me give you my reasoning why I am not jumping up and down because of it (maybe the outcome is that I have a wrong understanding, which would be awesome).

When getting my R5 as my first canon mirrorless, I immediately tried out Fv, anticipating I would love it. Turns out, Fv always uses just 2 wheels. One to change which setting is under current control, one to change the value of that setting.

I don't get it. Including the lens, my camera has 4 wheels. So it finally gives me the chance to control all 4 exposure settings independently from each other. How awesome would be a Fv mode, that would still let me utilize all 4 wheels?! THEN I would jump up and down.

But instead, I would first need to scroll with one wheel to the setting of interest and then use the other to change the value. As I basically did with my 10 years old entry level 100D.

Just writing this now drives me crazy again..

Well, so here's why it doesn't work for me. I tried it. Tried to love it. Unfortunately didn't make it.

Yes, that's a GREAT point! Seems like it would be a good idea if Canon did exactly that.

I'm not sure I'd use it myself though. Using just the two wheels means I don't have to move my fingers. The lens wheel isn't always at a convenient place either. I think that it's hard for me to be completely objective about it though, I think that since I'm so used to using the two wheels and it's so automatic that that may cause some bias in my thinking in favor of using two wheels.

 

[Lisa Horton]

Conceptually, I think that a good way to look at it is that Fv is Av, Tv, M and P all in one.

Think of it as starting in manual mode. You manually control all three exposure parameters, shutter, aperture, and ISO. You can, at will, set any one or more of those parameters to Auto. Set the shutter to Auto and you're in Av mode. Set the aperture to auto and you're in Tv mode. Set them both to auto and you're in P mode. And in all cases you can quickly and easily change ISO and/or set that to auto as well.

I don't see why people aren't jumping up and down and yelling about Fv. It's like a fundamental reimagining of exposure modes. There's no longer any need for Av, Tv, M, or P, since they are all contained within Fv.

I don't remember what the default is, but I have the down arrow on the D-Pad set to change the currently selected parameter to Auto on both my R series cameras. They also rarely leave Fv mode.

People like me are not jumping up and down about it precisely because of the reasons listed above. It tries to put everything into one mode and forces a different workflow on user than what they might prefer. In the end, the switching isn't that much different than the dedicated modes, it's just which buttons you press to get to those Av, Tv, M preferences. To say one is easier than other is just preference

Well, no one and no camera is *forcing* you to do anything. If you don't prefer that mode of operation don't use it. I think that it *is* that different from dedicated modes but obviously opinions vary.

I think one can objectively say that not having to move your fingers and hands around is less effort than moving hands and fingers. But I also think that if that's not what your muscle memory is, it can be harder for you, subjectively. I generally (meaning, with exceptions) never see any need or reason to switch into the dedicated modes, because they are contained within Fv mode. If I want to go to Av mode I set SS to auto and I don't have to reach for a different dial to do it.

It's pertinent to a lot of these sub discussions that hand size plays a role. My hands are way smaller than a lot of you, so my definition of having to "reach" for something is going to be different than yours. I find it helpful to try to keep this in mind when reading other people's opinions on this subject.

 

[PicPocket]

Conceptually, I think that a good way to look at it is that Fv is Av, Tv, M and P all in one.

Think of it as starting in manual mode. You manually control all three exposure parameters, shutter, aperture, and ISO. You can, at will, set any one or more of those parameters to Auto. Set the shutter to Auto and you're in Av mode. Set the aperture to auto and you're in Tv mode. Set them both to auto and you're in P mode. And in all cases you can quickly and easily change ISO and/or set that to auto as well.

I don't see why people aren't jumping up and down and yelling about Fv. It's like a fundamental reimagining of exposure modes. There's no longer any need for Av, Tv, M, or P, since they are all contained within Fv.

I don't remember what the default is, but I have the down arrow on the D-Pad set to change the currently selected parameter to Auto on both my R series cameras. They also rarely leave Fv mode.

People like me are not jumping up and down about it precisely because of the reasons listed above. It tries to put everything into one mode and forces a different workflow on user than what they might prefer. In the end, the switching isn't that much different than the dedicated modes, it's just which buttons you press to get to those Av, Tv, M preferences. To say one is easier than other is just preference

Well, no one and no camera is *forcing* you to do anything. If you don't prefer that mode of operation don't use it.

Which is precisely what i do

I think that it *is* that different from dedicated modes but obviously opinions vary.
I think one can objectively say that not having to move your fingers and hands around is less effort than moving hands and fingers. But I also think that if that's not what your muscle memory is, it can be harder for you, subjectively.

One can also objectively say that people would choose to do what feels less effort to them, and that is not Fv for me. My hand is rarely moving. My fingers are almost always moving around because I tend to use many of the other buttons on top and back. So just avoiding one setting isn't giving the fingers any rest

I generally (meaning, with exceptions) never see any need or reason to switch into the dedicated modes, because they are contained within Fv mode. If I want to go to Av mode I set SS to auto and I don't have to reach for a different dial to do it.

I do the opposite. I don't have to think at all which dial does what because I have dedicated dials for things and dedicated buttons to do things as well. I also use BB focus (in fact 2 different AF modes dedicated to specific buttons). I don't want to be fiddling by changing the meaning of what a control does while shooting, so I tend to minimize that

It's pertinent to a lot of these sub discussions that hand size plays a role. My hands are way smaller than a lot of you, so my definition of having to "reach" for something is going to be different than yours. I find it helpful to try to keep this in mind when reading other people's opinions on this subject.

Perhaps, and my take is that it's fine to use and adapt the mechanism that works for you. If there was one best way, other customizations will simply not exist. They are offered precisely so that people can set controls to get the camera out of their way in a way that suits them

 

[Banderras]

Using Fv mode, I need to use the front dial to select the parameter that I will be changing with the rear dial.

I think that's a strange setup; on my camera the wheel with the mode button chooses the parameter for the front wheel to adjust.

That's not too different form using the mode dial to switch the adjustable parameter.

Example - switching from Tv to Av:
- one click of the mode dial,
or, in Fv mode that would be:
- select shutter speed,
- press bin button to select auto,
- select aperture value.

The R and R5 don't have dedicated mode dials, so switching modes would involve

clicking the mode button,

- turning the rear wheel

- clicking the mode button again

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds.

Not if the exposure meter is running. In that case, the camera displays the shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation and ISO it will use; any changes you make to any of them start from the displayed values. The catch is that you can't set Tv, Av or ISO to auto while the exposure meter is running. The quickest way to switch the meter off is to tap the mode button twice.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. I can see how this mode may be useful for someone, essentially being close to M mode with the ability to set any of the exposure parameters to AUTO. Only you loose one dial to the parameter choice operation, which kind of defeats the purpose of M mode. So really it is just another way to choose between Av, Tv and P, but with no true M mode, where you should have 4 dials and 4 parameters.

Still, I find the operation in Fv mode rather clunky. You need to watch for underlined parameters to see what is on auto and what is not, I find being able to see the mode name in the corner is a bit more clear and quick. Likewise to configure Fv to the Av or Tv fashion is not really any quicker or straightforward than turning the mode dial. Granted on R5 the mode dial is a two-stage operation in itself.

Is it true that Fv does not observe the auto ISO min. shutter speed setting? If so it's a bug in the implementation. Maybe I am doing it wrong? In Fv mode I go to the menu and set the min shutter in auto ISO to manual 1/250. But in auto shutter is still metered to 1/80... This makes auto shutter unusable in Fv.

It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

Starting from the meter suggested value is even more useful.

 

[Banderras]

Conceptually, I think that a good way to look at it is that Fv is Av, Tv, M and P all in one.

Think of it as starting in manual mode. You manually control all three exposure parameters, shutter, aperture, and ISO. You can, at will, set any one or more of those parameters to Auto. Set the shutter to Auto and you're in Av mode. Set the aperture to auto and you're in Tv mode. Set them both to auto and you're in P mode. And in all cases you can quickly and easily change ISO and/or set that to auto as well.

I don't see why people aren't jumping up and down and yelling about Fv. It's like a fundamental reimagining of exposure modes. There's no longer any need for Av, Tv, M, or P, since they are all contained within Fv.

I don't remember what the default is, but I have the down arrow on the D-Pad set to change the currently selected parameter to Auto on both my R series cameras. They also rarely leave Fv mode.

People like me are not jumping up and down about it precisely because of the reasons listed above. It tries to put everything into one mode and forces a different workflow on user than what they might prefer. In the end, the switching isn't that much different than the dedicated modes, it's just which buttons you press to get to those Av, Tv, M preferences. To say one is easier than other is just preference

Well, no one and no camera is *forcing* you to do anything. If you don't prefer that mode of operation don't use it. I think that it *is* that different from dedicated modes but obviously opinions vary.
I think one can objectively say that not having to move your fingers and hands around is less effort than moving hands and fingers.

That's objective, but misleading, since you can't adjust anything without moving your fingers, be it Fv mode or any other. And once you accept that finger movement is unavoidable, the way you find need less effort is just personal preference. I find that turning the mode dial is less effort, and equally important less opportunity for error, than turning the rear dial and pressing the bin button and then turning the rear dial again, but that's my opinion, coming from 20+ years of shooting with (at least) twin control dial cameras. I would not buy the R just for the fact that it has a d-pad instead of a proper thumbwheel.

But I also think that if that's not what your muscle memory is, it can be harder for you, subjectively. I generally (meaning, with exceptions) never see any need or reason to switch into the dedicated modes, because they are contained within Fv mode. If I want to go to Av mode I set SS to auto and I don't have to reach for a different dial to do it.
It's pertinent to a lot of these sub discussions that hand size plays a role. My hands are way smaller than a lot of you, so my definition of having to "reach" for something is going to be different than yours.

Reaching for the bin button or d-pad is objectively the most "reaching" one could do on a canon camera isn't it?

I find it helpful to try to keep this in mind when reading other people's opinions on this subject.

 

[Sittatunga]

Using Fv mode, I need to use the front dial to select the parameter that I will be changing with the rear dial.

I think that's a strange setup; on my camera the wheel with the mode button chooses the parameter for the front wheel to adjust.

That's not too different form using the mode dial to switch the adjustable parameter.

Example - switching from Tv to Av:
- one click of the mode dial,
or, in Fv mode that would be:
- select shutter speed,
- press bin button to select auto,
- select aperture value.

The R and R5 don't have dedicated mode dials, so switching modes would involve

clicking the mode button,

- turning the rear wheel

- clicking the mode button again

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds.

Not if the exposure meter is running. In that case, the camera displays the shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation and ISO it will use; any changes you make to any of them start from the displayed values. The catch is that you can't set Tv, Av or ISO to auto while the exposure meter is running. The quickest way to switch the meter off is to tap the mode button twice.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. I can see how this mode may be useful for someone, essentially being close to M mode with the ability to set any of the exposure parameters to AUTO. Only you lose one dial to the parameter choice operation, which kind of defeats the purpose of M mode. So really it is just another way to choose between Av, Tv and P, but with no true M mode, where you should have 4 dials and 4 parameters.

It's an auto mode that lets you choose and adjust any exposure parameter without moving to a control that's not already under your finger and thumb. It's anything but M mode unless you use a separate light meter. But it does mean that you only need two dials rather than four, which is handy on the original R when using EF lenses with the standard or filter mount adapter. It's designed for use while framing the image on screen or in the EVF so the orange half-cog-wheel icon isagainst your adjustable parameter (that parameter is also outlined on the top screen which also tells you which ones are set to AUTO). The mode name is in the top panel even with the camera switched off, and is at the left hand end of the information panel below the EVF or rear screen, just like all the other modes' names.

Still, I find the operation in Fv mode rather clunky. You need to watch for underlined parameters to see what is on auto and what is not, I find being able to see the mode name in the corner is a bit more clear and quick. Likewise to configure Fv to the Av or Tv fashion is not really any quicker or straightforward than turning the mode dial. Granted on R5 the mode dial is a two-stage operation in itself.

Is it true that Fv does not observe the auto ISO min. shutter speed setting? If so it's a bug in the implementation. Maybe I am doing it wrong? In Fv mode I go to the menu and set the min shutter in auto ISO to manual 1/250. But in auto shutter is still metered to 1/80... This makes auto shutter unusable in Fv.

It is true, but if shutter speed is the important parameter your you should set that first in Fv mode. If depth of field is also important, set the aperture too and let the ISO go hang. But if the Fv mode observed any minimum shutter speed other than the 1/f (or 1/(1.6f for APS-C which defaults to 1/80 if the camera doesn't know the focal length of your lens) you would get severe underexposure in poor light by relying on auto ISO. So it's not a bug, it's what makes auto shutter usable in Fv.

It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

Starting from the meter suggested value is even more useful.

 

[Banderras]

Using Fv mode, I need to use the front dial to select the parameter that I will be changing with the rear dial.

I think that's a strange setup; on my camera the wheel with the mode button chooses the parameter for the front wheel to adjust.

That's not too different form using the mode dial to switch the adjustable parameter.

Example - switching from Tv to Av:
- one click of the mode dial,
or, in Fv mode that would be:
- select shutter speed,
- press bin button to select auto,
- select aperture value.

The R and R5 don't have dedicated mode dials, so switching modes would involve

clicking the mode button,

- turning the rear wheel

- clicking the mode button again

On top of that Fv has a rather disappointing implementation of Tv selection - every time changing from auto starts with 30'' and then scrolling for a long time through special case speeds.

Not if the exposure meter is running. In that case, the camera displays the shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation and ISO it will use; any changes you make to any of them start from the displayed values. The catch is that you can't set Tv, Av or ISO to auto while the exposure meter is running. The quickest way to switch the meter off is to tap the mode button twice.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. I can see how this mode may be useful for someone, essentially being close to M mode with the ability to set any of the exposure parameters to AUTO. Only you lose one dial to the parameter choice operation, which kind of defeats the purpose of M mode. So really it is just another way to choose between Av, Tv and P, but with no true M mode, where you should have 4 dials and 4 parameters.

It's an auto mode that lets you choose and adjust any exposure parameter without moving to a control that's not already under your finger and thumb. It's anything but M mode unless you use a separate light meter. But it does mean that you only need two dials rather than four, which is handy on the original R when using EF lenses with the standard or filter mount adapter. It's designed for use while framing the image on screen or in the EVF so the orange half-cog-wheel icon isagainst your adjustable parameter (that parameter is also outlined on the top screen which also tells you which ones are set to AUTO). The mode name is in the top panel even with the camera switched off, and is at the left hand end of the information panel below the EVF or rear screen, just like all the other modes' names.

Still, I find the operation in Fv mode rather clunky. You need to watch for underlined parameters to see what is on auto and what is not, I find being able to see the mode name in the corner is a bit more clear and quick. Likewise to configure Fv to the Av or Tv fashion is not really any quicker or straightforward than turning the mode dial. Granted on R5 the mode dial is a two-stage operation in itself.

Is it true that Fv does not observe the auto ISO min. shutter speed setting? If so it's a bug in the implementation. Maybe I am doing it wrong? In Fv mode I go to the menu and set the min shutter in auto ISO to manual 1/250. But in auto shutter is still metered to 1/80... This makes auto shutter unusable in Fv.

It is true, but if shutter speed is the important parameter your you should set that first in Fv mode. If depth of field is also important, set the aperture too and let the ISO go hang. But if the Fv mode observed any minimum shutter speed other than the 1/f (or 1/(1.6f for APS-C which defaults to 1/80 if the camera doesn't know the focal length of your lens) you would get severe underexposure in poor light by relying on auto ISO. So it's not a bug, it's what makes auto shutter usable in Fv.

Respectfully, shutter speed is always an important parameter, just not always the most important. For portraits an events in available light, I am OK with shutter speed in the range 1/250 - 1/8000, and auto ISO is perfectly capable to take over that decision for me. And by the time the light is so dim for the ISO to go over 12800, that is clearly visible to my eye and I can take over from there, but usually it means that the daytime photoshoot is over.

There's no denying that the auto ISO behavior in Fv contradicts the menu setting for auto ISO, therefore it's a bug/oversight in the implementation of Fv.

It would be much more useful to start from the 1/8000 end which is closer to most useful speed range.

Starting from the meter suggested value is even more useful.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Google is your friend.

Fv Mode

That may indeed be true, but I would hazard a guess that you are not.

The guy asked a simple question on a photography forum. I can’t think of a better place to ask it. To me, answers like this do nothing to contribute to the questioner, or the site.