A7 IV What am I doing wrong?

[Jaxsun]

I'm attaching 3 pictures. The cardinal in the A7 IV picture is as clear as any I have been able to get from the camera. I am using the Sony 70-300 G OSS lens.

The other two pictures are from past cameras - the best point/shoot I've ever owned - Sony HX90V (I lament selling it) and a Sony A6400.

I was fully expecting to get superior pics from the A7 but I think you will see, it doesn't come up to what I got with the other cameras.

I cropped the pictures as an equal percent of the originals. That's why the A7 has to be zoomed to compare. Not sure this is a valid presentation but best I could think of to do.

The exif data should be with each pic. I am completely open to any ideas, suggestions, settings or even criticism if deserved.




A7 IV






A6400




HX90V

 

[A74Me]

I dont know what your expecting as the other 2 camera images lack any detail at all. here is an image from the a74 crop mode.

zoom in on the detail on this

 

[dazzerfong]

You're too far away - the 300mm isn't enough for this shot, let alone a 600mm. Show the picture uncropped to get an actual indication of how much the bird is taking up the frame.

 

[artichokes]

I'm no expert on the nuances of the different sensors and sensor size, but I've read many times that a camera with a full frame sensor will painfully point out a photographers lack of proper technique. Just ask me, I'm still trying to deal with it.

 

[AshleyMC]

At max 300mm, you were still too far from the subject which was the little bird. There are virtually no details of the bird and its feathers because you were using only a tiny fraction of the full 33MP sensor — maybe 1MP? 0.5MP? — to capture the bird.

Either use a longer focal length, say 600mm, or find a bird closer to you, and try to fill the frame with the subject. That should be your primary concern.

With your a7 IV, you can use APS-C crop mode to gain 1.5x “reach” — if you are willing to accept the 14MP images.

 

[dkeller]

First is simply too much stuff from too far away. Second has a composition problem with the hawk facing the tree and also suffers from exposure and contrast. It is a shot that could be improved with RAW processing to use fuller range of tones and a touch of clarity. Third is cropped too close.

Composition is the number one part of a good picture while contrast and such can be adjusted some. I find RAW Processing in Light Room really brings out a lot in my own shots--but I'm not using as good of sensor with my older A7ii so it may need more "help".

 

[dazzerfong]

For the record, here's a pic from my collection with the same lens/camera combo:

 

[Jaxsun]

All the pictures were cropped to show a similar level of detail per their original size.

 

[dazzerfong]

All the pictures were cropped to show a similar level of detail per their original size.

Considering the bird in the A7IV shot takes up much less of the frame, what exactly are you expecting?

You need something a constant subject if you want to compare fairly, otherwise it's too subject to other confounders.

 

[Dennis]

I was fully expecting to get superior pics from the A7 but I think you will see, it doesn't come up to what I got with the other cameras.

I don't get why you're saying that. The A7IV shot looks very sharp zoomed in while the others look mushier (the A6400 shot less than the digicam shot). The others are close ups of big birds, so if you ignore the mush, they're more interesting to look at, while a tiny songbird on a feeder that occupies a fraction of the frame isn't a great picture ... but as far as image quality, I'd say the A7IV clobbers the other two by a huge margin.

I cropped the pictures as an equal percent of the originals.

I'm not sure what you mean by this (you worded it differently in another reply) ... all three images have the exact same dimensions (2402x2569) so did you crop then resize?

 

[Jaxsun]

I am reposting the pictures at full scale as they came out of the three cameras. Before anyone jumps on composition of the A6400 pic, it was a series of shots and the hawk turned it's head that way, but I thought it had good clarity, etc. It was a shot I entitled as "Knuckle Sandwich".

I only included the two pictures to illustrate what "lesser cameras" had captured and felt the A7 iv didn't bring detail that overwhelmed me as being fully superior to the other cameras. I guess it's sort of like buying an $800 driver and finding out I can't hit it any further than my 15 year old one.

I get that I need a much longer zoom and maybe that's the whole solution. But bottom line I was hoping someone would tell me I need to change the focus, the aperture , the ISO, or some other helpful tips. I wasn't looking for critique on the other pictures, just help getting the most out of the A7 iv. Thanks

BTW, the two hawk pictures were taken from inside my house through a double pane glass window. The A7 was outside in good light.


A7 IV

 

[Jaxsun]

Hawk Pictures

 

[Dennis]

I only included the two pictures to illustrate what "lesser cameras" had captured and felt the A7 iv didn't bring detail that overwhelmed me as being fully superior to the other cameras.

To my eyes, it is. You have 33MP versus 18/24MP and you're looking at a subject that occupies about 1/16 the height of the photo versus one that occupies 1/3 or more. You've got more pixels behind the hawks and using more of the lens' image area.

BTW, the two hawk pictures were taken from inside my house through a double pane glass window.

That explains the soft glow ... I have a lot of through the window shots when I've seen something I didn't think I had time to get outside for (or didn't want to scare away).

 

[Jaxsun]

Thanks

 

[dcstep]

I'm attaching 3 pictures. The cardinal in the A7 IV picture is as clear as any I have been able to get from the camera. I am using the Sony 70-300 G OSS lens.

The other two pictures are from past cameras - the best point/shoot I've ever owned - Sony HX90V (I lament selling it) and a Sony A6400.

I was fully expecting to get superior pics from the A7 but I think you will see, it doesn't come up to what I got with the other cameras.

I cropped the pictures as an equal percent of the originals. That's why the A7 has to be zoomed to compare. Not sure this is a valid presentation but best I could think of to do.

The exif data should be with each pic. I am completely open to any ideas, suggestions, settings or even criticism if deserved.


A7 IV


A6400


HX90V

Forget about the hawk shots.

What were you focus mode setting. With that busy BG, I would be using Tracking -Center Fixed, with Bird Eye-detect engaged, if your camera has it. Get the ISO down to Base ISO, which I'd guess is ISO 640 with this camera. For little peepers, I'd have the shutter speed at 1/2000-sec or higher. 300mm is generally too short for small birds. Add the FE 1.4x teleconverter for that long range, but you'll be better off with even longer FL for that distance.



There's the 15-minute rule for bird photography. When you enter any bird area, they'll take off. If sit down quietly and stay still, with your camera ready, they'll be back in around 15-min, particularly on a feeder. That way you can get twice as close. Try to get them on bushes near the feeder, but not on it, if you can. Still, for learning, take anything you can get.

--
Dave

 

[Jaxsun]

Thank you.

 

[dazzerfong]

I'm attaching 3 pictures. The cardinal in the A7 IV picture is as clear as any I have been able to get from the camera. I am using the Sony 70-300 G OSS lens.

The other two pictures are from past cameras - the best point/shoot I've ever owned - Sony HX90V (I lament selling it) and a Sony A6400.

I was fully expecting to get superior pics from the A7 but I think you will see, it doesn't come up to what I got with the other cameras.

I cropped the pictures as an equal percent of the originals. That's why the A7 has to be zoomed to compare. Not sure this is a valid presentation but best I could think of to do.

The exif data should be with each pic. I am completely open to any ideas, suggestions, settings or even criticism if deserved.


A7 IV


A6400


HX90V

Forget about the hawk shots.
What were you focus mode setting. With that busy BG, I would be using Tracking -Center Fixed, with Bird Eye-detect engaged, if your camera has it. Get the ISO down to Base ISO, which I'd guess is ISO 640 with this camera. For little peepers, I'd have the shutter speed at 1/2000-sec or higher. 300mm is generally too short for small birds. Add the FE 1.4x teleconverter for that long range, but you'll be better off with even longer FL for that distance.

There's the 15-minute rule for bird photography. When you enter any bird area, they'll take off. If sit down quietly and stay still, with your camera ready, they'll be back in around 15-min, particularly on a feeder. That way you can get twice as close. Try to get them on bushes near the feeder, but not on it, if you can. Still, for learning, take anything you can get.

At those distances, bird eye AF would be unlikely be triggering. His 70-300 doesn't work with teleconverters.

The uncropped pictures betray what's going on: for the other shots, the bird is taking up 10% of the frame or so. The A7IV is taking up more like 2% of the frame.

Ergo, he needs to get much closer. Even with a 600mm that would not be an ideal distance.

Maybe your technique is wrong, wrong settings, etc. but these problems are masked by the distance. Doesn't really matter if your ISO is at native or not, your focus area is tracking or not right now....

 

[alphaZ]

I'm attaching 3 pictures. The cardinal in the A7 IV picture is as clear as any I have been able to get from the camera. I am using the Sony 70-300 G OSS lens.

The other two pictures are from past cameras - the best point/shoot I've ever owned - Sony HX90V (I lament selling it) and a Sony A6400.

I was fully expecting to get superior pics from the A7 but I think you will see, it doesn't come up to what I got with the other cameras.

I cropped the pictures as an equal percent of the originals. That's why the A7 has to be zoomed to compare. Not sure this is a valid presentation but best I could think of to do.

The exif data should be with each pic. I am completely open to any ideas, suggestions, settings or even criticism if deserved.


A7 IV


A6400


HX90V

Forget about the hawk shots.
What were you focus mode setting. With that busy BG, I would be using Tracking -Center Fixed, with Bird Eye-detect engaged, if your camera has it. Get the ISO down to Base ISO, which I'd guess is ISO 640 with this camera. For little peepers, I'd have the shutter speed at 1/2000-sec or higher. 300mm is generally too short for small birds. Add the FE 1.4x teleconverter for that long range, but you'll be better off with even longer FL for that distance.

There's the 15-minute rule for bird photography. When you enter any bird area, they'll take off. If sit down quietly and stay still, with your camera ready, they'll be back in around 15-min, particularly on a feeder. That way you can get twice as close. Try to get them on bushes near the feeder, but not on it, if you can. Still, for learning, take anything you can get.

At those distances, bird eye AF would be unlikely be triggering. His 70-300 doesn't work with teleconverters.

The uncropped pictures betray what's going on: for the other shots, the bird is taking up 10% of the frame or so. The A7IV is taking up more like 2% of the frame.

Ergo, he needs to get much closer. Even with a 600mm that would not be an ideal distance.

Maybe your technique is wrong, wrong settings, etc. but these problems are masked by the distance. Doesn't really matter if your ISO is at native or not, your focus area is tracking or not right now....

To improve the sensitivity of eye detection at these distances with a short tele, switch to crop mode, aps-c setting, the object recognition works better as above with more subject in the frame and making the camera think its closer will help, works on all mirrorless cameras with object tracking, the more information for the ml to work with the better!

You could also try adding in the 4:3 ratio crop too, its a small crop in reality, 1.125x but it might not add anything much, worth a try though.

 

[AshleyMC]

I get that I need a much longer zoom and maybe that's the whole solution. But bottom line I was hoping someone would tell me I need to change the focus, the aperture , the ISO, or some other helpful tips. I wasn't looking for critique on the other pictures, just help getting the most out of the A7 iv. Thanks


A7 IV

This picture is “good” in terms of settings. In practical reality, any cameras, including phone cameras, should be able to render images as “good” as this one — shot in Auto.

On the other hand, there might be relevant C&C factors outside of the technical settings, especially related to composition.

If you wanted to capture a corner of your backyard that has a bird feeder being visited by a bird, it would be a “good” picture — although someone else might want to exclude the grey object in the foreground.

If you wanted to capture the bird with some suggestive aspects of the bird feeder (not the whole feeder), you would want to move in closer and use a longer focal length to fill most of the 33MP frame with the bird itself.

For exampe, a full 33MP image similar to this would be nice:



Sometimes, one just decides to walk away from a scene when taking into account all the supportive conditions (i.e. lack of them).

I captured the below last summer, no cropping:

 

[dazzerfong]

I'm attaching 3 pictures. The cardinal in the A7 IV picture is as clear as any I have been able to get from the camera. I am using the Sony 70-300 G OSS lens.

The other two pictures are from past cameras - the best point/shoot I've ever owned - Sony HX90V (I lament selling it) and a Sony A6400.

I was fully expecting to get superior pics from the A7 but I think you will see, it doesn't come up to what I got with the other cameras.

I cropped the pictures as an equal percent of the originals. That's why the A7 has to be zoomed to compare. Not sure this is a valid presentation but best I could think of to do.

The exif data should be with each pic. I am completely open to any ideas, suggestions, settings or even criticism if deserved.


A7 IV


A6400


HX90V

Forget about the hawk shots.
What were you focus mode setting. With that busy BG, I would be using Tracking -Center Fixed, with Bird Eye-detect engaged, if your camera has it. Get the ISO down to Base ISO, which I'd guess is ISO 640 with this camera. For little peepers, I'd have the shutter speed at 1/2000-sec or higher. 300mm is generally too short for small birds. Add the FE 1.4x teleconverter for that long range, but you'll be better off with even longer FL for that distance.

There's the 15-minute rule for bird photography. When you enter any bird area, they'll take off. If sit down quietly and stay still, with your camera ready, they'll be back in around 15-min, particularly on a feeder. That way you can get twice as close. Try to get them on bushes near the feeder, but not on it, if you can. Still, for learning, take anything you can get.

At those distances, bird eye AF would be unlikely be triggering. His 70-300 doesn't work with teleconverters.

The uncropped pictures betray what's going on: for the other shots, the bird is taking up 10% of the frame or so. The A7IV is taking up more like 2% of the frame.

Ergo, he needs to get much closer. Even with a 600mm that would not be an ideal distance.

Maybe your technique is wrong, wrong settings, etc. but these problems are masked by the distance. Doesn't really matter if your ISO is at native or not, your focus area is tracking or not right now....

To improve the sensitivity of eye detection at these distances with a short tele, switch to crop mode, aps-c setting, the object recognition works better as above with more subject in the frame and making the camera think its closer will help, works on all mirrorless cameras with object tracking, the more information for the ml to work with the better!

You could also try adding in the 4:3 ratio crop too, its a small crop in reality, 1.125x but it might not add anything much, worth a try though.

At those distances, you don't need eye AF as the DoF is gonna be deep enough to easily get the entire bird, let alone the eye.

Also, I did not know that about APS-C improving eye AF range. Gonna have to try that and see if it's placebo...