Upgrade from A7RII to A7RV

[ProfHankD]

For quite a long time I have felt that the A7RII is the "sweet spot" for use of manual-focus lenses on a mirrorless body. The 42MP BSI sensor, the PlayMemories lens correction app, etc., all just fall into place so nicely... and my second A7RII only cost me $1200 new.

Well, the A7RV was just enough of a step up to sell me on upgrading. The 60MP is nice, but the real feature that did it was the rear LCD. I love ultrawides, and it is so much easier to get the camera where I want with that pivoting display. I figured the other improvements, most around autofocus, wouldn't really mean much to me. Well, I was wrong. I literally just got the camera today, but I think already have a decent feel for it, and DPReview will become read-only soon, so here's my rushed review...

The first huge difference I noted was that the camera's mechanical shutter is nearly silent compared to the old A7RII. The menus are going to take some getting used to, but it's pretty clear they are better overall. The camera generally handles a little better than the A7RII, not that I have big complaints about how that handles. It feels more "pro" in a lot of subtle ways; the only downside is it also is a bit chunkier than the A7RII.

Of course, the image quality from this is impeccable -- heck, it pretty much is on the A7RII. I'll skip posting images, but they are at least as awesome as the A7RII delivers, and with slightly better colors and tonality. Here are the other biggies so far:

• The rear LCD is fantastic; it is trivial to get it positioned so I can see what I'm doing no matter how awkward the position of the camera is (I shoot ultrawide a lot -- the Laowa 10-18mm or a Minolta 16mm fisheye). It also makes the camera selfie capable.
• I haven't tested the driverless UVC USB interface yet, but this can be used with Zoom, etc., and I'm sure I'll do that for some things (I'm a professor).
• The mechanical shutter is really quiet. I wish the electronic shutter was faster, but this mechanical shutter really makes that hurt less... except for video.
• It can make HEIF files instead of JPEGs. Unfortunately, the .HIF files are not recognized by all standard Linux (Ubuntu 22.04) tools, so there's a little pain in using them, but they do hold detail and tonality a bit better than old-style JPEGs. The downside is that for lenses that have serious vignetting, they tend to preserve the dark corners; JPEGs produced with Sony's default DRO tend to tone map enough so that the dark corners aren't a big deal in post, but with .HIF you need the tone mapping to happen when you render them as JPEGs, and most image editors don't do quite as nice a job with that as Sony does in camera (in camera, they are
• The menus are faster to navigate, and the use of touch on the LCD is pretty effective.

In sum, this is a pretty big set of improvements on the already-awesome A7RII. I don't regret waiting to upgrade, and I do wish it had the fast electronic shutter of the A1 and a body size closer to that of the A7RII (or even A7C), but it really seems worth the nearly $4K price. BTW, AF with my Sony 100mm STF, Tamron 28-200mm, and Tamron 150-500mm is all just as impressive as you'd expect, beside still being good for manual focus lenses using peaking. Incidentally, I don't see corner color shift issues with the Laowa at 10mm, not that it was a big problem on the A7RII (it is on my A7II).

For my ratings: For action it is excellent due to blazingly good AF, but less so for sports where a higher sustained framerate would really help. Low light performance seems about the same as my A7RII, and one could hope for better. Otherwise, it's really excellent across the board -- including being a great camera to use APS-C lenses on, should one be so inclined.

 

[SilvanBromide]

Thanks for posting this, Hank. It was interesting to hear your thoughts!

I loved my a7Rii, but nevertheless upgraded it to the a7Riii that I still have (and which I have loved at least as much). Nevertheless, I'm tempted by the a7Rv for all the reasons you mention, plus one: the improved IBIS system.

I do quite a bit of low light work, and not all of it lends itself to tripod use. Luckily, I have reasonably steady hands and, with IBIS, can get a fair keeper rate at longish exposure times. But a stop or two more stabilisation would be more than welcome!

I've already adapted to the new menus and the beautifully quiet shutter (my second camera has been an a1 for the past eighteen months or so). For me, having similar menus on both cameras will be a great improvement (going backwards and forwards between the old and new scheme is a bit tedious) But in the scheme of things, that's a relatively minor point...

 

[richj20]

Thanks, Hank, for a nice informative review!

I looked at the specifications when the A7RV was released, and have read several user reports. The "improvements" over the A7RII were not tempting enough to pay $3500+ per camera - I use two cameras.

Your observation about image quality is the main reason I've stayed with the A7RII, since I've had no complaints about it:

• Of course, the image quality from this [A7RV] is impeccable -- heck, it pretty much is on the A7RII. I'll skip posting images, but they are at least as awesome as the A7RII delivers, and with slightly better colors and tonality.

Mostly nature and landscape photography here, with lots of closeup/macro of flowers with Sony's FE 2.8/50 Macro.

I can understand how the features you mention will improve your photography experience.

Happy photographing!

- Richard

 

[ProfHankD]

• It can make HEIF files instead of JPEGs. Unfortunately, the .HIF files are not recognized by all standard Linux (Ubuntu 22.04) tools, so there's a little pain in using them, but they do hold detail and tonality a bit better than old-style JPEGs. The downside is that for lenses that have serious vignetting, they tend to preserve the dark corners; JPEGs produced with Sony's default DRO tend to tone map enough so that the dark corners aren't a big deal in post, but with .HIF you need the tone mapping to happen when you render them as JPEGs, and most image editors don't do quite as nice a job with that as Sony does in camera (in camera, they are

Ooops -- that got truncated.

what I was going to say was that in camera, they are DRO tone mapped from raw data, which no doubt is a little better than doing it from .HIF extended-DR data.

 

[4Photos]

Thank you so much for this! I am on the verge of upgrading from my (near perfect) A7riii, and this may be what will push me over the edge, so to speak. All the best !!!

 

[4Photos]

Thanks for posting this, Hank. It was interesting to hear your thoughts!

I loved my a7Rii, but nevertheless upgraded it to the a7Riii that I still have (and which I have loved at least as much). Nevertheless, I'm tempted by the a7Rv for all the reasons you mention, plus one: the improved IBIS system.

I do quite a bit of low light work, and not all of it lends itself to tripod use. Luckily, I have reasonably steady hands and, with IBIS, can get a fair keeper rate at longish exposure times. But a stop or two more stabilisation would be more than welcome!

I've already adapted to the new menus and the beautifully quiet shutter (my second camera has been an a1 for the past eighteen months or so). For me, having similar menus on both cameras will be a great improvement (going backwards and forwards between the old and new scheme is a bit tedious) But in the scheme of things, that's a relatively minor point...

Indeed, if the new IBIS is as good as advertised (and it appears that way in some of the reviews), that would be ground breaking!

 

[ProfHankD]

Thanks for posting this, Hank. It was interesting to hear your thoughts!

I loved my a7Rii, but nevertheless upgraded it to the a7Riii that I still have (and which I have loved at least as much). Nevertheless, I'm tempted by the a7Rv for all the reasons you mention, plus one: the improved IBIS system.

I do quite a bit of low light work, and not all of it lends itself to tripod use. Luckily, I have reasonably steady hands and, with IBIS, can get a fair keeper rate at longish exposure times. But a stop or two more stabilisation would be more than welcome!

I've already adapted to the new menus and the beautifully quiet shutter (my second camera has been an a1 for the past eighteen months or so). For me, having similar menus on both cameras will be a great improvement (going backwards and forwards between the old and new scheme is a bit tedious) But in the scheme of things, that's a relatively minor point...

Indeed, if the new IBIS is as good as advertised (and it appears that way in some of the reviews), that would be ground breaking!

The CIPA IBIS ratings are sort of a bad joke; they don't test the right things for IBIS, but just pitch and yaw movements in a fixed shake waveform and are only measured at the image center. You shouldn't take any CIPA IBIS numbers greater than about 5 stops for any system too seriously. In my experience, most IBIS systems can be counted on to reliably deliver about 3 stops of improvement across the entire frame for roll, pitch, yaw, X, and Y movements with most lenses -- even unchipped manual ones. As my interactive tool for Selecting IBIS Zoom Focal Length proves, typical rounding errors in lenses reporting focal length to the body are usually enough to limit IBIS effectiveness to less than 5 stops.

That said, the A7RV shutter is not just quieter, but a lot less clunky feeling. CIPA doesn't measure camera-generated vibration (I have, Characterization of camera shake , although not for the A7RV yet). I'm pretty sure the A7RV generates a lot less shake than the shutter in the A7, A7II, and A7RII -- my other FF Sony bodies. This was one aspect where Canon was really ahead: even the shutter in the 5DIV was a lot quieter and smoother than in the Sony cameras of that time. Having a bigger body and better grip also can help a lot (with no impact on CIPA numbers). Sony may have significantly improved their IBIS in the A7RV, but I'd bet that generating less shake is more significant in most real-world circumstances.

Whatever the reasons, yes, despite the higher pixel count, you can expect to successfully hold the A7RV a bit slower than older Sonys.

BTW, IBIS for smaller sensors, such as MFT, inherently tends to be more effective not only because there's less moving mass, but also because the angles to the sensor edge tend to be smaller so scaled X/Y movements are a better approximation to yaw/pitch movements (the usual trick for 5-axis IBIS done with 3-axis motion control).

 

[ProfHankD]

Thank you so much for this! I am on the verge of upgrading from my (near perfect) A7riii, and this may be what will push me over the edge, so to speak. All the best !!!

Sorry about that... the costing you $4K, I mean. ;-)

 

[4Photos]

Thanks for posting this, Hank. It was interesting to hear your thoughts!

I loved my a7Rii, but nevertheless upgraded it to the a7Riii that I still have (and which I have loved at least as much). Nevertheless, I'm tempted by the a7Rv for all the reasons you mention, plus one: the improved IBIS system.

I do quite a bit of low light work, and not all of it lends itself to tripod use. Luckily, I have reasonably steady hands and, with IBIS, can get a fair keeper rate at longish exposure times. But a stop or two more stabilisation would be more than welcome!

I've already adapted to the new menus and the beautifully quiet shutter (my second camera has been an a1 for the past eighteen months or so). For me, having similar menus on both cameras will be a great improvement (going backwards and forwards between the old and new scheme is a bit tedious) But in the scheme of things, that's a relatively minor point...

Indeed, if the new IBIS is as good as advertised (and it appears that way in some of the reviews), that would be ground breaking!

The CIPA IBIS ratings are sort of a bad joke; they don't test the right things for IBIS, but just pitch and yaw movements in a fixed shake waveform and are only measured at the image center. You shouldn't take any CIPA IBIS numbers greater than about 5 stops for any system too seriously. In my experience, most IBIS systems can be counted on to reliably deliver about 3 stops of improvement across the entire frame for roll, pitch, yaw, X, and Y movements with most lenses -- even unchipped manual ones. As my interactive tool for Selecting IBIS Zoom Focal Length proves, typical rounding errors in lenses reporting focal length to the body are usually enough to limit IBIS effectiveness to less than 5 stops.

That said, the A7RV shutter is not just quieter, but a lot less clunky feeling. CIPA doesn't measure camera-generated vibration (I have, Characterization of camera shake , although not for the A7RV yet). I'm pretty sure the A7RV generates a lot less shake than the shutter in the A7, A7II, and A7RII -- my other FF Sony bodies. This was one aspect where Canon was really ahead: even the shutter in the 5DIV was a lot quieter and smoother than in the Sony cameras of that time. Having a bigger body and better grip also can help a lot (with no impact on CIPA numbers). Sony may have significantly improved their IBIS in the A7RV, but I'd bet that generating less shake is more significant in most real-world circumstances.

Whatever the reasons, yes, despite the higher pixel count, you can expect to successfully hold the A7RV a bit slower than older Sonys.

BTW, IBIS for smaller sensors, such as MFT, inherently tends to be more effective not only because there's less moving mass, but also because the angles to the sensor edge tend to be smaller so scaled X/Y movements are a better approximation to yaw/pitch movements (the usual trick for 5-axis IBIS done with 3-axis motion control).

Thank you so much for such a detailed response. I am getting about 2~3 stops with my A7riii, depending on lens and how careful I am with my technique (being very critical, judging at 100% magnification for motion artifacts). If this new body would give me an addition 2 stops extra, I would be in heaven!

 

[scrane]

I was also an a7rii holdout. Nothing in the a7riii or the a7riv really tempted me. But when the a7rv arrived on the scene my defenses fell.

I especially like: viewfinder resolution, improved IBIS, focus stacking, pixel shift, reduced size RAW, articulated screen, improved white balance, and improved functionality of focus peaking.

 

[ProfHankD]

I just confirmed a detail I had forgotten about:

The A7RV makes LA-EA4 manual focus only!

That's really dumb, but I suppose the AF logic is now complex enough in the A7RV, and there is the $250 LA-EA5 that doesn't use an SLT mirror. Of course, the LA-EA5 doesn't AF on the older Sony bodies, so this is another incompatibility things, kind of like the different batteries: the new ones are better, but neither is a universal solution.

Now I have to argue with myself about my old A-mount glass being worthy of spending $250 to AF on 60MP. I don't know that I have a single A-mount lens that would show more detail on 60MP than on the 42MP of my A7RII, and they'll still manual focus...

Not a deal breaker, nor even worthy of changing my ratings, but this is annoying. :-(

 

[TBLF]

Nice review, thanks for sharing!

Not like I need convincing, I own one, but it's cool to see other people's opinions and any hidden gem's I've missed.

I'll add a couple thoughts here... I find myself leaving the LCD closed most of the time, with the screen facing inwards, so my face isn't against the glass smudging it up. This is for 2 reasons...

1, I don't use the screen handheld, only on a tripod, and

2, I LOVE the high res viewfinder! It's great for playing back files, especially in the bright sun, so I just review shots in the viewfinder and..

2B that should be a 3 because it could be important to some people is the extra battery life you gain if not using the big screen.

Now, when I'm on a tripod, yeah, forget the viewfinder, touch screen A/F and comfortable angle screen to the rescue, it's awesome. That, or doing some menu tweaking, it's easier to use the big touch screen while you adjust things, thought it's fine in the viewfinder, just more use of the 4 way.

One other cool piece... I just did some self-portraits of the missus and I for our 36th anniversary and got to try out the Android app on my cell... it is wonderful. I just need to find a better way to pose myself & the missus and hide my hand with the phone in it, while still being able to hit the shutter precisely, but that's my problem, not the app. I could probably map one of the phone's mechanical buttons like the up or down vol, or that stupid Bixbie button that no one uses to the shutter or something if I took the time to read the help file. In the meantime, I have a few oops shots of me looking behind my wifes back (at the phone) to make sure I'm on the shutter, where I hit the shutter by mistake.

Anywho, no complaints about the A7RV here, with me upgrading from a 2016 DSLR (Pentax K-1, which is still an awesome DSLR, its just no A7RV). It's a whole new world for me and I'm having a blast.

Maybe one FW update suggestion, have auto-iso use some weighting options, where you can choose a slower or faster response to the auto-ISO, depending on if you are shooting static or sports. I suppose you could do similar with just dialing in exposure comp plus or minus, depending on what you are doing, but sometimes it just doesn't pic the ISO I want, heh.

Speaking of which, I saw a YouTube review of the A7RV when I first got mine, and the guy mapped the wheel around the 4 way to be the ISO changer. I thought that was interesting, he said he wouldn't have it any other way and was invaluable to him. I keep meaning to try it. Have any of y'all set yours up that way? Like it? Hate it?

 

[richj20]

Speaking of which, I saw a YouTube review of the A7RV when I first got mine, and the guy mapped the wheel around the 4 way to be the ISO changer. I thought that was interesting, he said he wouldn't have it any other way and was invaluable to him. I keep meaning to try it. Have any of y'all set yours up that way? Like it? Hate it?

I have my A7R2 cameras configured that way - very quick to change the ISO. For me, especially for botany, where I often use flash with ISO @50.

 

[Nielk Mike]

Happy for you - but I still believe the a7r3 offers the best cost/benefit ratio among Sony's line-up. 60MP is more than I need, even with cropping. Love the fast AF on my a7c, in particular Lock-on AF that follows objects instantly. But the AF on the a7r3 is fine with me. The price of the a7r5 is just too high. It is €4.200 body only. So unless Sony comes out with an a7rC, I'll stay with my a7r3.

 

[ProfHankD]

Happy for you - but I still believe the a7r3 offers the best cost/benefit ratio among Sony's line-up. 60MP is more than I need, even with cropping. Love the fast AF on my a7c, in particular Lock-on AF that follows objects instantly. But the AF on the a7r3 is fine with me. The price of the a7r5 is just too high. It is €4.200 body only. So unless Sony comes out with an a7rC, I'll stay with my a7r3.

I was really hoping my next camera would have fast electronic shutter readout, and an A7C's form would have been nice. However, the rear LCD really was the deciding factor for me. I don't love the price, although the A7RV is a bit cheaper in the US -- $3900. I still think the A7RII is a sweet spot, especially when they were selling for $1200 new even a couple of years ago, but with it discontinued, the low-end starts with the A7II at $1400 and the $2500 A7RIIIA is the cheapest new option IQ-competitive with an A7RII.

It's really just not a great time to buy a high-end camera, but I've got some travel coming up that costs way more than the A7RV did, so YOLO. And it is way cheaper and more portable than the Fuji GFX100S, which I also seriously considered. ;-)

Although there are now APS-C and even MFT mirrorless over $2000 (the Fuji X-H2S body is $2500 and OM-1 body is $2200), there are also many APS-C cameras below the cost of a high-end cell phone, so that's good. In fact, Canon has the T100 DSLR at $329 and T7 DSLR at $399 -- each including an 18-55mm lens! Weird that the few surviving DSLRs are so much cheaper than even an EOS M200 (which is $550). My guess would be that the cheap Canon DSLRs are being made from parts on hand, and thus avoided the current chip supply shortage...

The weirdest thing is how the small cameras have died out. My NEX-5 and even NEX-7 are absolutely tiny; I often could literally stick one in my pocket. I would think the A7C form would be way more popular, but Sony and Sigma are the only manufacturers making small FF mirrorless bodies, and still no R version for Sony.

I don't know where the camera industry goes from here, but it looks like rough waters ahead. DPReview's demise is a really bad sign for the industry. Nobody has yet embraced the concept of establishing a 3rd-party camera app environment, which I think could have provided a much nicer path forward...

 

[Nielk Mike]

Happy for you - but I still believe the a7r3 offers the best cost/benefit ratio among Sony's line-up. 60MP is more than I need, even with cropping. Love the fast AF on my a7c, in particular Lock-on AF that follows objects instantly. But the AF on the a7r3 is fine with me. The price of the a7r5 is just too high. It is €4.200 body only. So unless Sony comes out with an a7rC, I'll stay with my a7r3.

The weirdest thing is how the small cameras have died out. My NEX-5 and even NEX-7 are absolutely tiny; I often could literally stick one in my pocket. I would think the A7C form would be way more popular, but Sony and Sigma are the only manufacturers making small FF mirrorless bodies, and still no R version for Sony.

This is exactly what made Fuji's X-E so attractive for me. Very capable camera in a small package. Just recently rediscoverd the NEX5R and NEX6. The NEX5 with Sigma 2.8 trio (or the E20) is just so small! They disappear in my hand and noe one even notices that I am taking picures.

No doubt the a7r5 is a great tool. Just can't justify the investment (on top of the Q2).

 

[LarryRC]

Nice review, thanks for sharing!

Not like I need convincing, I own one, but it's cool to see other people's opinions and any hidden gem's I've missed.

I'll add a couple thoughts here... I find myself leaving the LCD closed most of the time, with the screen facing inwards, so my face isn't against the glass smudging it up. This is for 2 reasons...

1, I don't use the screen handheld, only on a tripod, and

2, I LOVE the high res viewfinder! It's great for playing back files, especially in the bright sun, so I just review shots in the viewfinder and..

2B that should be a 3 because it could be important to some people is the extra battery life you gain if not using the big screen.

Now, when I'm on a tripod, yeah, forget the viewfinder, touch screen A/F and comfortable angle screen to the rescue, it's awesome. That, or doing some menu tweaking, it's easier to use the big touch screen while you adjust things, thought it's fine in the viewfinder, just more use of the 4 way.

One other cool piece... I just did some self-portraits of the missus and I for our 36th anniversary and got to try out the Android app on my cell... it is wonderful. I just need to find a better way to pose myself & the missus and hide my hand with the phone in it, while still being able to hit the shutter precisely, but that's my problem, not the app. I could probably map one of the phone's mechanical buttons like the up or down vol, or that stupid Bixbie button that no one uses to the shutter or something if I took the time to read the help file. In the meantime, I have a few oops shots of me looking behind my wifes back (at the phone) to make sure I'm on the shutter, where I hit the shutter by mistake.

Anywho, no complaints about the A7RV here, with me upgrading from a 2016 DSLR (Pentax K-1, which is still an awesome DSLR, its just no A7RV). It's a whole new world for me and I'm having a blast.

Maybe one FW update suggestion, have auto-iso use some weighting options, where you can choose a slower or faster response to the auto-ISO, depending on if you are shooting static or sports. I suppose you could do similar with just dialing in exposure comp plus or minus, depending on what you are doing, but sometimes it just doesn't pic the ISO I want, heh.

Speaking of which, I saw a YouTube review of the A7RV when I first got mine, and the guy mapped the wheel around the 4 way to be the ISO changer. I thought that was interesting, he said he wouldn't have it any other way and was invaluable to him. I keep meaning to try it. Have any of y'all set yours up that way? Like it? Hate it?

Really thoughtful info. I also own the rV and would like to add the superb subject recognition autofocus. For birding especially it adds functionality over even the RIV. When shooting that hard to get shot of a bird in the bush. Rather than focusing on the branch 10” in front of the bird, if enough of the bird is showing it will focus on the bird and even the eye.

In addition the new menu system has allowed me to completely eliminate the need to go to the fn or menu system while shooting. Everthing is now 100% changed on the fly with custom buttons. Including using the center button to cycle through the 4 focus modes that i use.

 

[4Photos]

In addition the new menu system has allowed me to completely eliminate the need to go to the fn or menu system while shooting. Everthing is now 100% changed on the fly with custom buttons. Including using the center button to cycle through the 4 focus modes that i use.

Didn't know you could do that. That's great news !!! I am on the verge of upgrading form Riii to Rv.... the more I read about it in these forums, the more the verge becomes a certainty

Really the only thing that is holding me back is the high prices of Sony here in Europe.

 

[inasir1971]

Really thoughtful info. I also own the rV and would like to add the superb subject recognition autofocus. For birding especially it adds functionality over even the RIV. When shooting that hard to get shot of a bird in the bush. Rather than focusing on the branch 10” in front of the bird, if enough of the bird is showing it will focus on the bird and even the eye.
In addition the new menu system has allowed me to completely eliminate the need to go to the fn or menu system while shooting. Everthing is now 100% changed on the fly with custom buttons. Including using the center button to cycle through the 4 focus modes that i use.

Thanks great tip - I just assigned on of my buttons to set the 4 focus modes I use.

I am really appreciating the new features of the A7RV. Here's a shot I took with the 200-600 with camera in APS-C crop.

Just turn the focus ring with Full time DMF on to shift focus past leaves towards the kingfisher, then the bird eye recognition AF works perfectly.


crop


uncropped APS-C image

 

[MediaArchivist]

I really like the fully articulating screen on my A-mount a99ii (and a99 and a77 prior to that). So much so, that my whole style of shooting relied on it.

I resisted moving from A-mount to E-mount for years because of the rear screen. The a7Rv was the E-mount breakthrough I was waiting for, and I bit. Finally, a new, fully supported camera with a fully articulating screen. That alone made it (for me) a good purchase.

But there is so much more I got as a bonus!