May buy a Pentax LX soon - what to look out for?

[wantfastcars]

Hey there! You might have seen the last thread where I was given a Pentax ME and really enjoyed learning how to use it. Unfortunately, well, that camera broke, and it's not worth the cost of repairs to get it fixed. So, I took a stroll around the used camera shops downtown and found a grand total of two K-mount Pentax cameras: a staggeringly overpriced K2 (compared to what refurbished models sell for on Yahoo Auctions Japan) and an LX. After doing some research and comparing the specs and all, despite it being a bit more than I originally intended to pay, I've pretty much decided on the LX. It's a lot of camera, probably more than I need now, but based on the absolutely glowing reviews for it all over the internet, it seems like it's a camera I can definitely grow into almost indefinitely.

Anyways, I've read that the biggest drawback of the LX is that it can be expensive to maintain, so what should I look out for if I get the chance to handle it before buying it? Test the various shutter speeds on the X setting, throw a lens on it and make sure the light meters is functioning, make sure the mirror doesn't stick, light seals in place, etc.? The sign on it says a lot of parts have been replaced, so I assume that means it's been repaired at the shop selling it.

What should I make sure to try before I buy?

 

[tassienick]

I would ask the shop to clarify the work they’ve had done to it. As you mention, parts are scarce for the LX, so unless they are a Pentax specialist I’d be sceptical of work done without documentation.

Other than that, sounds like you’re on the right track.

- Sticky mirror is probably the best known problem. Check that the mirror bumper is good and the mirror responsive at all speeds.

- Check that the meter responds rapidly in changing light.

- Make sure there’s no corrosion around the battery terminals.

- Make sure the prism removes and attaches cleanly.

- Have a look at the shutter curtains. There shouldn’t be any creases or dings.

Fwiw I’ve owned LX’s for the last 20 years and have never had an issue. They’re not as fragile as the interwebs suggest.

 

[Autonerd]

I would be hesitant to buy an LX, and here, in excruciating detail, is why.

No question, it's the most capable manual-focus (read: 1970s technology) camera Pentax ever made -- but it is ridiculously expensive and, as Tassienick said, difficult to repair. In fact, Eric Hendrickson (Pentaxs.com), widely considered to be the go-to guy for Pentax film camera repairs, recently announced he will no longer service the LX. (That, to me, is a Very Big Deal.)

The main advantages to the LX, as I believe them to be, are interchangeability of the viewfinder, weathersealing/durability, and the hybrid mechanical/electronic shutter (electronic at 1/60 or slower, mechanical at 1/75 or faster).

The interchangeable viewfinder is interesting, to be sure, if you're willing to pay as much for a second viewfinder as you would for an entire K-series camera.

Weathersealing/durabiilty: Great for professional photogs beating the crap out of their cameras, but regular Pentaxs are durable, too. As a college kid I hauled my KX everywhere (and never in nice cushy camera bags) and it has the scars and dents to prove it -- and yet all these years later it still works perfectly. (Also, you have to ask -- did your LX's first owner subject it to the kind of torture it was built to survive?)

Hybrid shutter: Personally I think this is overrated. A lot of people like mechanical shutters ("They work without batteries!" -- so what? These cameras take button batteries so small you can carry spares in your nostril) but mechanical shutters are more likely to gum up with old lube and go out of timing (requiring a CLA). Electronic shutters stay pretty well in spec. The LX does do EXTREMELY long exposures well, but other Pentax bodies are good to between 8 and 30 seconds. And the hybrid shutter is one of the elements that makes the LX more complex.

The LX does have off-the-film metering which can be very accurate in some tricky situations -- but it's still a center-weighted system with SPD cells. A $20 Minolta Maxxum has a superior matrix meter, and Pentax M bodies use GPD cells which, I believe, are a better technology. If you're shooting color print film, you have so much exposure latitude that you'll probably never know if your meter is entirely accurate or not. Slide requires more accuracy but back in the day I shot perfect slides with my KX.

So that's my argument against the LX. If money was no object, I might buy one -- but with (supposedly) working ones going for $300-$500, I can't see doing so. Especially considering the shortage of parts means if anything goes wrong, it becomes a very expensive paperweight.

Now, let's talk about that camera you looked at -- was it serviced by that shop? Is the technician a factory-trained Pentax tech? I have handled enough Pentax K/M bodies that I can start to spot those repaired by people who weren't -- little things (like the meter detent on the shutter release) don't work. And as I understand it the LX is WAY more complicated and difficult to repair competently than a K or M. If I was going to spend the kind of money the LX commands, I'd be hesitant to buy one that wasn't serviced by Eric Hendrickson or a Pentax-trained technician.

So...

What else to buy?

I'd probably recommend the K2 (non-DMD) over the LX (I just bought my first K2, so jury's out). You can get one for $100 or less. It has an electronic shutter w/ automatic setting, and you can still get it repaired ($125 for an Eric overhaul, maybe a few more bucks for related repairs). And there's a good chance it won't need a CLA -- if the K2's electronic shutter works, it probably works correctly.

Or you can get a Ricoh XR-2, which does everything the K2-DMD does and more, and can be bought for $40 or less, or as the Sears KS Auto for $20... which means you can get a dozen or more for the cost of one LX!

If you MUST have a mechanical cameras, consider the KX -- my favorite Pentax (not because it's mechanical, but because it's what I know best). You can get one for $85 or less and get it overhauled for another $100-$125. I recently did just that -- so for half the cost of an LX I have a KX that'll outlive me. (My first KX is 45 yrs old with no overhaul and still working fine.)

All of the above cameras (including the Ricoh) use the same Pentax-M lenses as the LX.

If you want a super-sophisticated meter, try a Nikon N8008 or N8008s -- it'll meter more accurately than the LX (and has auto focus!) and you can buy one for $50 or less. And if it MUST be a Pentax (good for you!), the PZ-1 or PZ-1p will get you better results than the LX for $100 or less.

Bottom long-winded line is this: If you are really dying to spend a ton of money on a camera, you can get the LX, which really is the best manual-focus, manual-wind camera Pentax made -- but you can also get cameras that are 95% as good (or, if you go with something newer, 150% better) for 1/4 or less of the LX's price. The $300 you'd save buys a lot of lenses and film!

Aaron

--
My Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/aarongold/

 

[CG MK2]

my experience was frustrating purchased one in mint condition and it had issues. sent it out for repair. and the mirror would stick at speeds below 1/60. got frustrated and its is a shelf display now

purchased a ME super and love it. small. works great. recommended

 

[wantfastcars]

I would ask the shop to clarify the work they’ve had done to it. As you mention, parts are scarce for the LX, so unless they are a Pentax specialist I’d be sceptical of work done without documentation.

Other than that, sounds like you’re on the right track.

- Sticky mirror is probably the best known problem. Check that the mirror bumper is good and the mirror responsive at all speeds.

- Check that the meter responds rapidly in changing light.

- Make sure there’s no corrosion around the battery terminals.

- Make sure the prism removes and attaches cleanly.

- Have a look at the shutter curtains. There shouldn’t be any creases or dings.

Fwiw I’ve owned LX’s for the last 20 years and have never had an issue. They’re not as fragile as the interwebs suggest.

Thanks for the great info. I'll make sure to check for these issues. The website says they specialize primarily in Nikon cameras, but they carry a wide variety of brands. I'll try my best to ask about exactly what/how things were repaired/replaced, but my Japanese is far from perfect.

 

[wantfastcars]

I appreciate the very in-depth response, but I fear there's been a slight miscommunication - the question isn't which model to buy, it's whether or not to buy this LX. The K2 that's available is going for over 23k yen, which is more than double what seems to be a reasonable price for it. I'm not in the market for purchasing online, I plan to purchase in-person and I'm heavily leaning towards Pentax because I already have three K-mount lenses, thus essentially allowing me to budget more into the body itself instead of having to account for the body and lens(es). Additionally, thanks to the tanking yen, the LX is for sale for under $300 USD equivalent.

Also, wild as it may sound, I was specifically hunting for manual-focus cameras. I didn't want a camera with auto-focus for film, that feels like it's taking away from the analog nature of it. Part of the appeal of the LX to me is that it seems to be regarded as one of the pinnacles of analog photography while also offering an Aperture Priority mode - something the KX lacks. The K2 is also very appealing, but I'd rather pay a more expensive fair price than get ripped off for a cheaper camera. As for others, once again the issue falls to availability and the fact that I already own K-mount lenses.

I do appreciate the extremely thought-out response though, there is excellent information in here.

 

[Autonerd]

I appreciate the very in-depth response, but I fear there's been a slight miscommunication - the question isn't which model to buy, it's whether or not to buy this LX.

I totally get that -- I am saying that, as a long-term Pentax shooter, I would recommend against buying any LX. It's great for bragging rights, but it's a dead-end camera -- as you've heard here and on Pentax Forums, when and if it breaks -- more likely when than if, from what all these experienced folks are saying -- it's done.

I agree that $165 is expensive for a K2, and I would pass on that -- but others will come along. I spent about six months shopping for my K2. I wound up with a pair, both working, for $99.

Point is, patience is a virtue -- and if you're eager to start shooting right now, I think buying a $20 Ricoh while you wait for the right camera (be it LX, K2, whatever) is a better investment.

I would also be very suspicious if a shop that is selling a K2 for 2x its value (even with adjustment for the weak yen) is selling an LX so far under its value.

I didn't want a camera with auto-focus for film, that feels like it's taking away from the analog nature of it.

I feel exactly the same way!

Part of the appeal of the LX to me is that it seems to be regarded as one of the pinnacles of analog photography

It is. Likewise, an Aston-Martin is regarded (by some) as the pinnacle of road cars. I've driven several (perk of the job) and they are utterly magnificent, but I wouldn't consider buying an older one as a daily driver, because they break easily and often and are expensive and difficult to get fixed. I know people who have and the experience was miserable. A Toyota or Chevy is a better choice for a daily driver.

I own some magnificent cameras, but there's a reason I most often travel with a KX or a Ricoh (or occasionally a Nikon FG) -- because they're good reliable knock-about cameras, and if they break I know I can get them fixed (KX) or replace them (Ricoh) easily and cheaply, and I won't be out a lot of $$ if they get lost, stolen or wrecked.

I'd hate to see you spend all this $$ on an LX only to have it pack up in 3 months and leave you with a doorstep! (And if you do get an LX, I hope, hope, hope I am wrong and it turns out to be a reliable camera that you love.)

The K2 is also very appealing, but I'd rather pay a more expensive fair price than get ripped off for a cheaper camera.

Agreed. I'd rather see you get a fair price on a cheaper camera. I'm tempted to send you one of my Ricohs just to tide you over until you find a better deal.

Tell me, btw, why the reluctance for eBay?

Oh, and since it won't fit anywhere else -- I was thinking of buying from Japan, but have since decided not to. I saw issues with Japanese cameras that I haven't seen from cameras bought in the US -- fungus, mirrors desilvering, viewfinders delaminating, etc. I do plan to visit film camera shops on an upcomign trip to Tokyo, with money in hand, but I've also been considering a Spotmatic and am looking for Honeywell cameras -- in other words, those that spent their life in the (relatively) drier US.

As for others, once again the issue falls to availability and the fact that I already own K-mount lenses.

You are lucky -- I don't think any lens mount was adopted by so many different manufacturers!

I do appreciate the extremely thought-out response though, there is excellent information in here.

Thanks -- and thank you for taking it in the spirit I intend, which is to inform you about other options. Again, if you buy the $300 LX and it turns out to be a dream camera that lasts a lifetime, no one will be happier than me -- except you!

Aaron

 

[wantfastcars]

I appreciate the very in-depth response, but I fear there's been a slight miscommunication - the question isn't which model to buy, it's whether or not to buy this LX.

I totally get that -- I am saying that, as a long-term Pentax shooter, I would recommend against buying any LX. It's great for bragging rights, but it's a dead-end camera -- as you've heard here and on Pentax Forums, when and if it breaks -- more likely when than if, from what all these experienced folks are saying -- it's done.

I agree that $165 is expensive for a K2, and I would pass on that -- but others will come along. I spent about six months shopping for my K2. I wound up with a pair, both working, for $99.

Point is, patience is a virtue -- and if you're eager to start shooting right now, I think buying a $20 Ricoh while you wait for the right camera (be it LX, K2, whatever) is a better investment.

I would also be very suspicious if a shop that is selling a K2 for 2x its value (even with adjustment for the weak yen) is selling an LX so far under its value.

Sorry, point of clarification here, I live in Japan, and these were two different shops - one has the K2, a different one has the LX. The LX is also going for pretty reasonable price by Japanese pricing, it's just the weak conversion rate makes it seem much cheaper. That said, it being a "dead end" camera was one of the reasons I was interested in the LX, I saw it as possibly being the last and only film camera I (have to) buy, which was also part of the reason I was considering spending more than I'd originally planned.

I didn't want a camera with auto-focus for film, that feels like it's taking away from the analog nature of it.

I feel exactly the same way!

Part of the appeal of the LX to me is that it seems to be regarded as one of the pinnacles of analog photography

It is. Likewise, an Aston-Martin is regarded (by some) as the pinnacle of road cars. I've driven several (perk of the job) and they are utterly magnificent, but I wouldn't consider buying an older one as a daily driver, because they break easily and often and are expensive and difficult to get fixed. I know people who have and the experience was miserable. A Toyota or Chevy is a better choice for a daily driver.

I own some magnificent cameras, but there's a reason I most often travel with a KX or a Ricoh (or occasionally a Nikon FG) -- because they're good reliable knock-about cameras, and if they break I know I can get them fixed (KX) or replace them (Ricoh) easily and cheaply, and I won't be out a lot of $$ if they get lost, stolen or wrecked.

I'd hate to see you spend all this $$ on an LX only to have it pack up in 3 months and leave you with a doorstep! (And if you do get an LX, I hope, hope, hope I am wrong and it turns out to be a reliable camera that you love.)

I appreciate the car analogy, haha. I get the concern about the camera ceasing to function - I was under the impression repairs were reliably doable, just costly. This might be because a lot of camera forum threads seem to be longer-lived and because English are very American-centric, so everybody from 2004 to 2019 just said "Send it to Eric." This is very much worth considering.

The K2 is also very appealing, but I'd rather pay a more expensive fair price than get ripped off for a cheaper camera.

Agreed. I'd rather see you get a fair price on a cheaper camera. I'm tempted to send you one of my Ricohs just to tide you over until you find a better deal.

Tell me, btw, why the reluctance for eBay?

I'll look around for Ricohs then - I've definitely seen a few around, are there specific models you'd recommend that have the K-mount as well as both Aperture Priority and Manual modes?

Also with regards to eBay, I honestly just forgot. The de facto online used goods site here is Yahoo Auctions Japan, which doesn't accept PayPal, so I kinda wrote off buying online. Plus in general, especially for used goods, I prefer being able to see and handle products in-person before buying it. eBay has a lot more options and seems to accept PayPal even in Japan so that opens up a good number of more options - a cursory search reveals a KX for about 23k yen including shipping that has been recently CLA'd by the illustrious Eric.

Oh, and since it won't fit anywhere else -- I was thinking of buying from Japan, but have since decided not to. I saw issues with Japanese cameras that I haven't seen from cameras bought in the US -- fungus, mirrors desilvering, viewfinders delaminating, etc. I do plan to visit film camera shops on an upcomign trip to Tokyo, with money in hand, but I've also been considering a Spotmatic and am looking for Honeywell cameras -- in other words, those that spent their life in the (relatively) drier US.

Another part of the reason I'd prefer to buy local - having more recourse or a person to directly contact face-to-face should problems arise with whatever camera I buy. And regardless, I live in Japan, so even if I buy from America the camera will be subject to Japan's climate anyways.

As for others, once again the issue falls to availability and the fact that I already own K-mount lenses.

You are lucky -- I don't think any lens mount was adopted by so many different manufacturers!

I do appreciate the extremely thought-out response though, there is excellent information in here.

Thanks -- and thank you for taking it in the spirit I intend, which is to inform you about other options. Again, if you buy the $300 LX and it turns out to be a dream camera that lasts a lifetime, no one will be happier than me -- except you!

I had kind of the same feeling too - it seemed like the opportunity to have a camera of a lifetime. Thanks again for your advice and responses.

 

[Autonerd]

Sorry, point of clarification here, I live in Japan, and these were two different shops - one has the K2, a different one has the LX.

Ah, OK -- I thought it was the same shop (and I was starting to figure out you lived in Japan).

I was under the impression repairs were reliably doable, just costly. This might be because a lot of camera forum threads seem to be longer-lived and because English are very American-centric, so everybody from 2004 to 2019 just said "Send it to Eric." This is very much worth considering.

I think Eric stopped repairing LXs fairly recently -- I believe I read something about it on the Pentax Forums. I just had a KX done by him. He's not much of a communicator, though, so not much sense in asking him about LXs.

I'll look around for Ricohs then - I've definitely seen a few around, are there specific models you'd recommend that have the K-mount as well as both Aperture Priority and Manual modes?

I believe all of the KRs and XRs are K-mount. I think the XR-2 (or XR-2s) is a great camera -- it has ap-priority auto, manual speeds from 1/1000 to 4 sec, analog match-needle meter like the K2/KX, and aperture readout in the viewfinder (KX has this, K2 lacks it except for the pro-level DMD model). Also a built-in eyepiece blind for long exposures, DOF preview, and mirror lock-up tied to the self-timer (the lever of which is known to break).

DIsadvantges: You have to hold the shutter release halfway down to meter (it doesn't "click" on like a properly-working Pentax), and it feels cheaper than a Pentax (mostly because of the plastic body panels, which are also very light).

Since you like car analogies -- if a Pentax K2 is a Mazda3, the Ricoh XR-2s is a Chevy Cobalt (or perhaps a Mitsubishi Lancer). Does the same job just as well, but feels more crude.

I also recommend the KR-10 (might be XR-1000s in Japan), similar camera but with a few less features. I don't like the KR-10 Super as much (hard-to-read LCD meter display) and suspect I woudn't like the KR-10M (auto-wind) though I haven't owned one.

Here in the US, the Sears versions (KS Auto = XR-2s, KSX = KR-10, KSX Super = KR-10 Super) are just as good and sell even cheaper.

Also with regards to eBay, I honestly just forgot. The de facto online used goods site here is Yahoo Auctions Japan, which doesn't accept PayPal, so I kinda wrote off buying online.

Interesting!

Plus in general, especially for used goods, I prefer being able to see and handle products in-person before buying it. eBay has a lot more options and seems to accept PayPal even in Japan so that opens up a good number of more options - a cursory search reveals a KX for about 23k yen including shipping that has been recently CLA'd by the illustrious Eric.

Very cool. EBay is a crapshoot, but if an item is listed as Used, with the description "functions as intended", that's an out of the camera doesn't work -- you can return it as an INAD (Item Not As Described) even if the seller does not take returns. They will pay shipping and may not even want the item returned.

(This just happened to me with a Sears camera ($15 + $17 shipping) - advertised as in good condition and working. Got here and the mirror was stuck and shutter jammed. FIled for a return and the seller just refunded my money, no request to ship it back. I tinkered with it a bit... and lo and behold, I was able to get it un-jammed. Haven't tested it yet.)

Another part of the reason I'd prefer to buy local - having more recourse or a person to directly contact face-to-face should problems arise with whatever camera I buy.

Well, that is a very good reason to buy in person, indeed. Here in the States, at least in my part of it, we have fewer options for in-store purchases. Some camera stores have a film dept. but the prices are higher. KEH or Robert's Camera are better options for us, if you are willing to pay more and want to know exactly what you are going to get. I've rolled the dice with eBay several times and done very well.

Aaron

 

[wantfastcars]

Looking around into other popular secondhand sales sites in Japan, I've found a couple much more reasonable K2 listings. The K2 has all the main features I want the LX for, so with a little help from some friends I should be able to get one there. Thanks for all your help, Aaron.

 

[FredInMN1]

When I still had an LX the mirror-damping shock absorber cylinder had to be replaced. And the prism hot-shoe failed and the flash would not fire. Never had it fixed.

 

[alex_virt]

So that's my argument against the LX. If money was no object, I might buy one -- but with (supposedly) working ones going for $300-$500, I can't see doing so.

If money was no object, I would buy a gold-plated LX. Unfortunately, it is, so I'm happy with my Pentax Z-1P and lately Canon Elan 7